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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help me get perspective please

8 replies

dazedandconfusedd · 24/01/2021 21:23

This is slightly sex related but it's not the main issue so I thought it was better here.

My husband and I are having counselling as we're arguing a lot at the moment. It boils down to not seeing each others' points of view/point scoring made worse by my husband's stressful work.

So this morning we had sex and I asked him at the beginning not to touch my breasts as they were tender. He did touch them and I told him again and then he did it again quite hard and it hurt.

At this point I pushed his hand off and we stopped. He didn't apologise straight away but said he had misunderstood. As I felt I had been really clear (twice) this made me pretty angry. He then apologised and went really quiet and hurt.

We have been married a long time and he's never pushed boundaries before so I was pissed off but I knew it was out of character so an apology would have been fine. At this point though, he said he was really sad and felt alone. So it became more about his feelings than mine.

I tried to understand how he was feeling and why but he couldn't tell me beyond the hurt and the feeling of being alone (we're ironically supposed to be working on empathy this week!) After a few hours he still had a sad demeanour so I asked him if he was feeling better "a little" he said. I got pretty pissed off at this point! And he said he couldn't control how he felt. I said he could and he should stop moping.

We have argued about it off and on all day. I couldn't eat lunch due to a horrible anxious feeling (I hate an atmosphere and he knows it). When I told him he said "that's how I feel".

I feel this is all upside down. I know he's not some dodgy rapist but I am at a loss as to how this has become my fault and my problem to solve. I think he does struggle to unpick his feelings and behaviour so I don't mind giving him time to think stuff through. However it was the sad face etc... I found hard to put up with 5 hours later! Unless I brought it up I think he wouldn't mention it with the hope it might go away.

I'm really tired of it all. What are your thoughts? Obviously you're only getting my side. I think his would be he was taken aback by the strength of my reaction, he was upset at himself (he only told me this after 8 hours!), needed reassurance from me (again he only told me this 8 hours later!) and needed time to think it through.

The counsellor says we are bad for taking about "fault" and he did bring this up today. However, I feel that this is a bit different from your usual argument about who did what and whose fault it is! The fact that he said this makes me wonder if he thinks he's not done anything wrong!

Sorry for the epic OP. Bit sad and mad tonight Sad

OP posts:
RedPandaFluff · 24/01/2021 21:27

I'm really sorry, @dazedandconfusedd, this sounds like a really difficult time . . . I don't have anything helpful to say, except that I'm glad you're both having counselling because it sounds as if it's really needed here. It's like there's a disconnect between you. I'd be very frustrated, angry and upset if my husband persisted in doing something during sex that I'd told him was painful. I totally understand why HIS sadness is pissing you off!

dazedandconfusedd · 24/01/2021 21:59

Thanks @RedPandaFluff I appreciate it. It feels weird and I started to think I was going mad with all the empathy stuff about how he was feeling when a) he had wronged me and b) he had gone into silent and hurt mode. I am just tired of it to be honest.

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Aquamarine1029 · 24/01/2021 22:03

Your prick of a husband is gaslighting you. Making you question yourself when he is 100%, completely in the wrong. He feels "sad?" Really? I'd be telling him to get to fuck with that nonsense.

Eekay · 24/01/2021 22:09

Gaslighting.
Don't dismiss your instincts.
He's hurt you, after being specifically told not to.
And he's the one who's upset and sad?
Fuck that and fuck him.
Your counsellor doesn't sound like she can see the real dynamic going on here either.

dazedandconfusedd · 24/01/2021 22:12

@Aquamarine1029 wow, I’m kind of feeling a bit like that. He’s good at shifting blame in the way he words things - “ I was worried to say anything as you were so cross, I was worried to say the wrong thing.” Thereby putting the blame on me. Using the counsellor’s “stop the blaming language “ felt wrong in this instance. To be fair he’s never done anything like this before but he is good at the silent sad thing and it particularly upset me today as he knows the power of it.

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Aquamarine1029 · 24/01/2021 22:57

Going to counselling with an abusive man is not recommended and it won't do any good anyway. Your husband is an emotionally abusive man. He has also become physically abusive. You told him clearly to not touch your breasts TWICE and he ignored you. The last time he touched them, he purposefully did it roughly, to hurt you. This wasn't an accident, and it wasn't some fucking misunderstanding, it was deliberate. He misunderstood? Like hell he did. He did it to punish you.

Why you are bothering to save this marriage is beyond me.

category12 · 24/01/2021 23:07

Is it him that does the point-scoring and drives the arguing that has brought you to counselling?

I would stop joint counselling and have individual, going forward. He's co-opting the counselling language and methods, to use it against you - which is one of the main reasons it's always advised not to have joint counselling in abusive relationships.

He's gaslighting you and using DARVO (deny, accuse reversing victim and offender) which are emotionally abusive behaviours.

He knew fine well that you said no to what he was doing, and he did it again and harder. It's not a misunderstanding, it was a test to see what he can get away with.

dazedandconfusedd · 24/01/2021 23:29

Thanks all. It’s given me the confidence to properly call him out. He is contrite. We will see.

I don’t think I’m in an emotionally abusive marriage. He has never done anything like this before. The gaslighting he does do sometimes but I call him out on it. His main flaw is playing the victim if I pull him up on stuff. He’s pretty great the rest of the time. We’ve been married 22 years.

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