I've had enough!! I want out but don't know how (Long rant)

[jojo38]

Hi ladies. Please bear with me-this may be a long post but I am so distraught... I need to rant, to tell someone how I feel, some people who understand...

I have had enough and want out of my marriage. I don't know how. I don't know where I stand legally with my children, what happens afterwards etc...

My boys are away this week - thank god.

I have wanted to leave before but always managed to stay put for some reason or another. I do love him but I can't live with him anymore. I don't know what to do. I believe he has AS but no diagnosis... only typical symptoms.

We had a row - you guessed. It was my mums birthday so we went out for a meal, somewhere where we hadn't been before and it was really nice! He was drinking as usual. We got home after dropping mum back home. First thing he says to me is whats the matter now, why are you so, so distant - in a tone of voice I could have shoved up his arse! I went in the kitchen to make a cup of tea... I tell him I am not distant, I am tired and it's the first day of my period. He just shakes his head and says - that confirms it all then. It's as tho he has been waiting for this all night... bottled up and waiting to burst.

I sit next to him on the settee. I explain that he has had a bit to drink and we are both tired but I do not like being spoken to like that. I had explained and that he had not accepted it, just believed that I was on the attack. I apologised for goodness sake. He is sitting forward from me at this point. He is still shaking his head. He then goes on to tell me that my mobile phone company charges twice the price as his!!! WHAT!!!???? (I know, I know).

I say to him that it really isnt' the right time to be discussing my mobile phone company. He then asks me - what time IS right then? Errr, I am not sure but I don't think this was getting us anywhere. I asked him to forget it for now, and stop worrying. He then has a right bloody go at me because I have NO IDEA WHAT HE IS ON ABOUT!!

By this time I had had enough. I told him I was very hurt by what he had said and the fact that every time something has anything to do with me, he has to pick holes in it or put it down. He started before we went out... making jokey comments... I asked him to stop but he kept on and on.

He even picked an arguement with my mother about where mum and I used to live... he hadn't even lived there, so how could he comment???!! He was spoiling for a fight or trying to gain control.... as he usually does.

This was the cracker tho... the proverbial straw... wait for this!!
I go to try and calm the situation down by trying to talk to him calmly, listening to what he had to say etc... only to get a shouting at about how he pays for my kids, how HE had to go out with MY kids yesterday and use HIS money to buy MY mother a birthday present!!! How THEIR father has given THEM money NOT to be spent on ANYONE here etc...
He then shouts at me that he has just spent his last penny on the meal - I had told him that mum would be happy to go halves but he is an arrogant shit and even before we went he said to me - I suppose I am expected to foot the bill

This shook me to the core. I really had no idea this is how he felt. I know that he is materialistic and worries about money but this was just the final nail in the coffin.

My ex doesn't pay maintenance... he is a shit.
DH reckons that because HE pays HIS maintenance, he is an ok guy... fair enough, why not? But does this mean he has to bring MY kids into HIS arguement just to get at ME??? No.

Anyway, I did look shocked and I said something equally as shocking... I told him that he had no right to speak that way. I asked him who the hell he thought he was?!!
He shouted again at me - *Well, who's going to feed them next week then?!!" He goes on about the money that my youngest has been given and how he has been told by my ex that he isnt' to spend it on us etc..

I flipped. I got the money and threw it at him. I took all the money out of my bag (from the sale of some chairs - MY chairs) and threw that at him ranting and raving at him that we didn't need his money OR HIM!! I told him to go to hell.

I drove off round and about for hours. No call, no nothing. I called him... he told me that if I wanted to talk to him, I was to come home now! He didnt' want to talk to me, he wanted control. I kept ringing him up just for the hell of it. Yes, I wanted him to apologise and ASK me to come home. I hate him for not treating me with respect. I hate him for not giving a shit.

I can't live with him anymore. I just can't.

I am really sorry. I have no one to talk to... only my mum but it isnt' fair on her. She is disabled, and has had enough heartache to last her a few lifetimes.

A bugger it... what the pooo. It's nearly 3 in the morning and I just want to run away but there is no where for me to go. I am so sorry I have ranted on.

Thanks all of you. Wobblyknicks, you do make sense. I have appt with CAB on Friday morning.

I have some understanding of the law but not necessarily in this case. He is my 2nd h and the children that live with us, are mine from my previous.

I don't know how much to believe him or trust him anymore. He lied to me last night, plain as day. I told him this morning and he said that he hadn't.
He works in the converted garage so he is only next door. I phoned him to say that for the childrens' sake - his ds who is coming to stay from tonight until sunday, I will make an effort to be normal for him. (Not that I give a toss about the little shit) and for my own children when they return. I told him I was not happy and that I did not want to be his wife anymore.

IF he so much as puts a foot out of line I will tell his darling precious little brat exactly what he did, said and what it is I am intending to do. Same goes of my two as well.

We were due out on Saturday evening to a dinner dance... lardidah. That's up his arse too!! He can go get himself another whipping post... perhaps his spoilt brat of a daughter will go with him in one of her goth getups. I really don't give a shit.

This is MY home and that of MY children. OK so its his too but that doesn't mean he has to be so vulgar and bloody rude to me. I have done EVERYTHING round here from changing a fucking lightbulg, cleaning the bathroom to scrubbing the kitchen floor and cutting the grass after he has left is so bloody long it takes me 3 fucking hours!!!
Do I get any payment - NO. I have been searching for an invoice template actually. I will make one up if I can't find one and I WILL send it to him.

I will list things like housework, taxi driving (him and his mates to pissup evenings at his sodding lodge!) Baby sitting, counselling, and SEX!!! whats the charge these days, anyone know??? oh and I have just finished decorating the bedroom.

Gotta go... more soon.
Etc

Well done for amking the appointment with the CAB - let me know how it goes

Jojo38, when he gets the invoice, that may actually bring him up short - sometimes men bury their heads in the sand and do nothing until they realise their wives/ partners are serious.

Is he happy for his marriage to collapse? And are you definitely sure you want it to be over?

I'm glad you're feeling angry now - the adrenalin will keep you going. But why don't you tell your DH that for his own sake he should keep his DS away for this weekend? It's really not fair to involve his child in this, it's not his fault his father's such a shit - the fact that he's gone through all this once before may well have contributed to him being a brat now!

Whatever you do, don't leave the house. If need be, wait till DH is far away, get an emergency locksmith to change all the locks and pack up a change of clothing for DH and leave it outside. If he starts shouting and breaking windows, call the police.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for your advice,

I did get a reaction from my invoice. I got an email - and printed out in a letter form for me to see when I came in.
I went out at 5.30 to see my mum. I go riding on a weds and he wasn't going to spoil it for me. I had a great time btw. Anyway, got home, ss was in bed. I made myself a cuppa and toast. Noticed an envelope addressed to me on the pc table. (he was in the room still) I picked up the letter and read it.

It started by thanking me for confirming the situation concerning his disabilities!
(He is also admitting his own suspicions for having AS, AND his counsellor did too.) He tells me all about his ailments and how not young he is anymore - in body etc... (Emotional Blackmail) then goes on to say he knows he is mentally ill!!
I have tried to talk to him on many ocasions about his drinking... he refers to that and says that his brother drinks and finds it helps him (he is autistic) and says it helps him too!

THEN tells me that he is sorry that I can no longer fullfill the in sickness and in health bit of our marriage vows... we NEVER said those ones!!

He accepts that I want to leave him on the grounds of his mental health and that I cannot cope... and sadly that it is me that has lead us down th epath to discover these problems... (not sure what he means there).

He goes on to put my eldest ds down about a number of things and about a card ds has bought me that h does not agree with, he thinks it is insulting! and he is ashamed and will be changing it... oh no he won't!

He goes on about my boys' spermdonor, how he doesn't support them financially, how ds's have been given money by sperm donor and youngest has said to him that this money should only be spent on sperm donors family... H is jealous and resentful of my boys and I do not know why or how to stop it.
Eldest ds does not respect him, and I am not surprised, are u?
Telling me that eldest ds doesnt give a monkey fuck - HE IS 14 for heavens sake... who else does a 14yo boy think of if it isn't himself!!!????
Derrrr... he has no idea!!

I made notes on the letter stating that these difficulties he has come across are nothing new. He is using them as an excuse and he is using me and emotional blackmail to make me feel bad about the way I have reacted. TUFF SH*T.

I have told him that if he can't even TRY then there is no point in me hanging around. I dont' trust him, and he has never trusted me.

He says he loves me but I don't think he knows what love is.
He says his father is ashamed of him and his brother... ok, maybe but does that make us all the same as him?
He says he fancies me, ok, so he tells me sometimes... great.... but it would be nice to be shown, to be touched or hugged, a kiss - anything would take away the stress of living with the agony.

I am staying well out of the way at the moment. I am out tomorrow and will be going to an Al Anon meeting then on to my mums for the evening.

I am staying put, don't panic. This is my home,this is where I live with my children. Half of this house is mine and my childrens. No one is taking it from me, not even me!!

I would like to say thanks to you all...
I am so relieved I found MN... and you all...so kind and willing to advise. I will let you know how the rest of the week pans out, if that's ok.

I am tired of it all, yet still confused.
Thanks again. {{{hugs}}}

OMG - am speechless - some men are such tossers!!! How dare he try and play on your emotions like that!! He's trying to put all the blame on you and make it look like you're a cruel heartless woman who won't stick with him when he's 'ill'. No illness means that you can't try your best, and it doesn't sound like he's putting much effort in!!!

Try and stay strong - it sounds like you are, and don't let him use emotional blackmail to get you to stay - its YOUR decision.

If you want to leave (figuratively, you're entitled to stay in the house of course) then DO IT. I spent 4 wasted years with my ex just because I got swayed by emotional blackmail - its not worth it.

Glad you're finding MN a help - please stay on here and tell us how it goes.

It sounds like he's still at a stage where he recognises his problems, but is not willing to start the long hard struggle to solve them.

Sounds very similar to my xp, Jojo, and the decision I made was that I couldn't spend what was left of my youth waiting for him to be ready to change. One day, he may be ready to confront his demons, but in the meantime, I and my children need to get on with having normal happy lives. If he comes out the other side well and happy, good, if he doesn't, I haven't wasted the only life I've got waiting for him to come out. And wasted my children's childhood's giving them a bizarre role model!

Don't feel like a failure for things going wrong a second time; it's much braver and more constructive to look reality in the face and move on, than to let misguided pride trap you in an unhappy and unhealthy relationship.

Keep feeling angry!

Hi again. Just a quickie while they are stil out. I replied to his letter but not in a confronting fashion, just cool and commented on what I could. I used the I word rather than the you word and I think it helped me look at how easy it is to attack someone if the you word is used too much.
I am rather proud. Wait and see tho. He has yet to read it!! No doubt he will find something abusive in it.

The emotional blackmail smarts a bit, I have to say. I just mentioned that he seems to have a lot of demons to exorcise and that it would be best to do it sooner rather than later.

I am sleeping in eldest ds's room at the moment. Got a sharp awakening when ss opened the door and turned the light on. He hadn't even told ss I was in there!! arrrrghhh!!! I made up some cock n bull story about how I keep daddy awake with my snoring and he needs some sleep... oh such a wimp.

SS barely notices I am there these days. There is something more going on than meets the eye. Never mind, least of my worries.

I'm off to an Al Anon meeting tonight so I have told him that I won't be home for tea and that I am out tomorrow evening as well, so I won't be having any tea then. (Im having a chinese takeaway with my mum tonight)

Just one question. I am supposed to be going to a dinner dance with him on Saturday. Got my hair booked etc... do I go? Mum says not to - but she is biased in that a)Im her daughter and b) she is babysitting ss and my two.
Not sure what to do. I suppose I could wait and see how I feel.

Thanks again - I have needed MN for a long long time. I feel as though I am not alone in the world!!

I don't know whether you should go on Saturday, but you should definitely get your hair done - nothing like a haircut for raising your morale!

Crikey! So he's trying the emotional blackmail now? Well first of all I would point out to him that AS is NOT a mental illness so he should stop trying to use that particular little method of self-pity. Secondly (and as someone who lives with an Aspie dh and at least one ds with autism) your dh has to start making some compromises. If my dh needs to stick to a certain routine and talk about electronics for hours at a time then I can live with that as it's not detrimental to our family life. OTOH he knows that there are certain compromises and 'sacrifices' that he too has to make, eg it may well be that his old routine was to get up 10 minutes before he needed to leave the house for work but now that we have 2 children he has to get up a little earlier to help with dressing, breakfast etc. In his single days he may have spent a lot of money on his obsessions (electronics and computers) but now that he is married he knows it is no longer possible and he has adapted this behaviour accordingly.

It sounds to me as though your dh sees himself as some poor hard-done-by victim who can't help his appalling behaviour because AS makes it completely beyond his control.

ooh coppertop, you are a minefield of useful information... thanks hun.

How old is your dh? If you dont' mind me asking?

He fancies a talk now and then off to bed... hugs all round. I will be able to give you blow by blow account tomorow, hopefully!

Thanks caligula... will give the hair do some thought.

Dh is nearly 36. He read your posts on this thread and had this to say:

"It's people like this that give Aspies a bad name. AS itself is not a mental illness (although obviously the depression that can sometimes accompany it IS). A typical Aspie (if there is such a thing) would find it hard to understand someone else's feelings enough to be that manipulative in letter-writing. Even at my age I'm still learning about the way other people think. Even though I've been with my dw for nearly 8 years and have known her for even longer than that, I wouldn't know where to begin with emotional blackmail and manipulation as I just don't understand other people's emotions enough."

And that's the opinion of an Aspie man. Good luck with the talk. xxx

Don't know if you are still there coppertop but I think I am going to need you more than you perhaps hoped.
The talk did not go well at all. I am now in tears of frustration and he is sinking deeper into despair telling me he has to be sectioned etc... spend times in a home! What IS going on in his head!! I think I will throw something at him before long. I am getting desperate here. PLEASE HELP!!! If there is ANYTHING that I can do or say or help him with for the next few days even!!! How can I persuade him to trust me! He won't listen, he won't even consider anything I am saying is to help both of us, he is just ranting on about himself! Are Aspies selfish in nature?
Coppertop and dh, please will you be able to give me some sort of idea how to deal with this. I have come to the end and do not know where to turn next. He is saying that he has to get sectioned!! This is doing my head in. Please help

Still here!

Having AS certainly doesn't mean that he needs to be sectioned! Could he be suffering from some form of depression or other kind of mental illness which makes him feel that he ought to be sectioned? Or is it more likely that he's actually just playing on this whole situation? I ask because this really doesn't sound like an Aspie response to the situation.

Aspies can be selfish in the sense that they just don't understand that other people might have different needs/wishes etc but it's not a deliberate thing IYSWIM. Ds1 is a good example of this. He still doesn't quite get the idea that his thoughts are entirely different to everyone else's ie we don't all share the same mind. He is 'selfish' in the sense that he thinks mainly of his own needs but isn't selfish in the way that we would normally understand the term IYKWIM.

I've got to go to bed now but will hopefully check in tomorrow. I'm inclined to agree with sallystrawberry that he seems to be playing on your emotions but I don't want to ignore the possibility that he might have depression.

Feel free to CAT me if you want to. xxx

Hi all
Had no luck last night. I went onto some AS sites and it definitely seems that he has all the symptoms.

He definitely is a depressive... manic depressive I think he said.

It is all too much for me at the moment.

Thanks for the support. Coppertop, I don't know what CAT is or how to do it... fikky aint I?

Feeling very weak and useless right now.
Going to have another look at some AS sites. See if I can get anything from there.

{{{{hugs}}}}

As coppertop said, having AS is no excuse (and no reason) for using emotional blackmail - that seems to be a seperate issue altogether. And he might be manic depressive too, but thats still no excuse for not trying to change things. The bottom line, surely is that he's trying to make you bear the brunt of his behaviour and feel like you have to stay, while he gets to run round doing whatever he wants and treating you however he wants. That's not on!!

And if its too much for you then don't do it, quite frankly. He's got a problem that HE needs to work on - you can't do all the work for him, its impossible and you have to look after yourself. He's a grown man, he can look after himself, if you left that would be no excuse for him not to deal with his own life. If he was really trying he could sort himself out and maybe 'get you back' afterwards. And it doesn't sound like he needs to be sectioned - he sounds like a drama queen there tbh!!! 'Poor me - I'm so helpless'.

You are more than entitled to do what will make you happy, don't let his emotional blackmail make you think otherwise. You seem like you want to leave - so do it. If he sorts himself out, then excellent - if not it's got nothing to do with you.

I really appreciate all of you and your support.

I emailed him the reply to his letter - the emotional blackmail one.. I mentioned this to him last night. He has no idea what I am talking about when I mention emotional blackmail and putting the onus on me. He tried to explain that what he was saying in his letter was that it wasn't my fault and he is sorry that all this is effecting me and that I can't cope.

I am not sure what he meant by all of it but reading it again, it gets my back up because it says things like, I don't blame you for not wanting to live with me and I know you don't want to live with someone with AS or Autism He refers to his brother, who is autistic.

He told me that he had told his son (9 going on 3) that he has AS and that he has been horrible to me and that he was horrible to his mum (ss's mum) and that this is a mental illness.
Now, was it coppertop who said that this is NOT a mental illness... but perhaps the depression is? I relayed this to him but he is just pushing the idea away and basically saying that what I said was a load of tosh... of course it is a mental illness, don't be stupid - my counsellor said this, that and the other...blah blah He will not listen to me - he did say that it was not going to be me to help him... ha!!! As if. In other words, I am not experienced and especially not a professional,so I know nothing about it and do not have the qualifications to do it!

I told him to shove it up his arse.

He read my reply this morning. He had to go out with ss so he hasn't managed to have a good look at it yet, so he tells me.
He has said in a short email to me that he is not going to run away from this.

I think he needs to sort the drinking out first...but only he can do that.

Thanks again ladies... I will keep you posted.

{{{{hugs}}}}}

I'm sure your marriage has been very difficult and unsatisfactory, and that your husband has been a difficult man to live with in very many ways, but I honestly don't see that saying he doesn't blame you for not wanting to live with him is a bad thing to say. I suspect he may be clumsy in his wording but the truth is that you do find his AS hard to live with (understandably) and he seems to understand that. Does it really matter if it is a condition or an illness? Of course, if a relationship is dead then it will not benefit any of you to stay in it, and I would never suggest that, but the split might be easier if you were able to assume that he isn't deliberately trying to wind you up, but is just awkward in the way he expresses things. I'm actually quite touched that he told his own son that he had been horrible. It's truly not his son's fault that your relationship is breaking up, he's only nine, which is very young really, and clearly you both have issues with each other's children which is sad, IMO. I can see that this is a very fraught situation. But I don't think that you will have to change your children's schools. I hope you can take this post in the spirit in which it is intended.

So sorry to hear about all your troubles JoJo. I don't really have much to add to the advice you've been given.

My exp tried to say that he had ADD to try and explain his useless behaviour. I don't think he did but he was emotionally stunted and was unable to empathise with anyone else's feelings. Sometimes I almost felt sorry for him because he was really troubled inside. BUT at the end of the day he wasn't going to change and I didn't want to live with him anymore. Whatever condition he might have he won't change as you've said yourself - so can you live with him as he is?

You can't change someone or 'make' them happy - they have to do that for themselves and even then they just might not be able to.

I have never regretted making the final decision to ask him to leave. Life has been so much simpler ever since really. I am happy and on an even keel and that helps my 2 dds.

If you get him to leave and stay in the house then your ds's won't have to change schools will they? I'm sure they'll be happier if you are.

Sorry if this is rubbish advice - everyone else is so much better at it! Good luck anyway. I'll keep checking to see how you're doing.

Listmaker, thanks... and no, it is not rubbish advice. Any advice is precious and taken well on board in this little head.

I love dh. Ok, I hate him at times but I think that is my misinterpretation of the facts. Unfortunately, Aspies live and thrive on facts... I am an emotional deep running woman who's needs far overstretch what dh is capable of meeting.

I think as he is now upset and confuse about his state of health, this may encourage him to find out more about it... unfortunately he can go to the extremes... I have to step back from the confusion in his mind and let him work it out.

I owe it to him and us to give him a chance to make the effort. If he doesn't bother then my time here is over. I can't and won't do it for him.

I think I have to step off this rollercoaster and take some air...
{{{{hugs}}}} and many thanks, you are braver than I am hun, I am not sure I could do that, although I have threatened to, but it makes no difference to him... he has no empathy and no idea of how or what makes other people tick.

Here's to a long road ahead, MN keeping me sane and on track and to - lets see what happens over the next few weeks.

Thanks again. You have made a difference.

Glad I helped in some small way. I think it was much easier for me because I just didn't love him by the end. You can only put up with cr*p if you love them!

I'm sure you'll do the right thing in the end. You sound like a very intelligent, sorted person.

GOOD LUCK!!!

AS (as you probably already know) is said to be at the high-functioning end of the autistic spectrum. Autism is not a mental illness. It is a developmental disorder. If his counsellor has been telling him that it is a mental illness then he may be a little confused. Tony Attwood's books are very good for explaining and discussing AS. They're usually available in local libraries so you wouldn't even need to buy them. This may help you both to understand a little more about which aspects of your dh's behaviour/quirks etc are due to AS and which ones are perhaps caused by depression or even just a part of his own personality. It won't be a magic solution to all your problems but it may help you both. I know that when the consultant told my dh that she was sure he had AS he felt a huge relief as he finally understood why he'd always felt so different to everyone else. At the time he'd already done a lot of reading on the subject as we were looking for a diagnosis for ds1 so he had a good idea of the facts.

It's just a thought but did anyone ever sit down with your dh when he was younger and explain to him exactly what autism was and what it meant? 20 or 30 years ago autism was often kind of swept under the carpet a bit and people didn't like to talk about it too much. Back then it WAS seen as a mental illness and something you didn't want everyone to know about. A lot of research has been done since then and there are a lot of good books out there. If your dh is going by information that was around 20+ years ago then it's quite possible that he's feeling scared. It doesn't justify bad behaviour of course but alleviating that fear might help you both right now.

If your dh truly feels that he may be depressed then has he been able to see a GP about it? He's already going through counselling but a course of anti-depressants may help to get him back on track.

You're not thick for not knowing what CAT means! If you click on Contact Another Talker at the top of the page you can ask mumsnet to pass on a short message and your e-mail address to another poster if you want/need to 'talk' offline.

Good luck. xxx

AS (as you probably already know) is said to be at the high-functioning end of the autistic spectrum. Autism is not a mental illness. It is a developmental disorder. If his counsellor has been telling him that it is a mental illness then he may be a little confused. Tony Attwood's books are very good for explaining and discussing AS. They're usually available in local libraries so you wouldn't even need to buy them. This may help you both to understand a little more about which aspects of your dh's behaviour/quirks etc are due to AS and which ones are perhaps caused by depression or even just a part of his own personality. It won't be a magic solution to all your problems but it may help you both. I know that when the consultant told my dh that she was sure he had AS he felt a huge relief as he finally understood why he'd always felt so different to everyone else. At the time he'd already done a lot of reading on the subject as we were looking for a diagnosis for ds1 so he had a good idea of the facts.

It's just a thought but did anyone ever sit down with your dh when he was younger and explain to him exactly what autism was and what it meant? 20 or 30 years ago autism was often kind of swept under the carpet a bit and people didn't like to talk about it too much. Back then it WAS seen as a mental illness and something you didn't want everyone to know about. A lot of research has been done since then and there are a lot of good books out there. If your dh is going by information that was around 20+ years ago then it's quite possible that he's feeling scared. It doesn't justify bad behaviour of course but alleviating that fear might help you both right now.

If your dh truly feels that he may be depressed then has he been able to see a GP about it? He's already going through counselling but a course of anti-depressants may help to get him back on track.

You're not thick for not knowing what CAT means! If you click on Contact Another Talker at the top of the page you can ask mumsnet to pass on a short message and your e-mail address to another poster if you want/need to 'talk' offline.

Good luck. xxx

Ooops!