Examining my relationship with my mother

[BrownShed]

I don’t know where to start with this really and I’ve been thinking of posting for a while (register user but name changed) but I’ve only got the courage recently. I’m not even sure what I want out of this post other than to say some things out loud because I feel like I need to get some things off my chest and can’t talk to anyone in real life (beyond DH and my sister).

Since having my DC I’ve been really looking closely at my relationship with my mother. I know what sort of parent I want to be to my daughter (positive, nurturing, supportive, with good communication and boundaries) and it’s caused me to have a period of reflection on my own childhood and up bringing.

I guess I’m just trying to unpick why my mother behaved the way she did. I don’t think she falls into typical narc category but she was very controlling and also very quick to anger about very minor things. She and my father were married very young and they have had an unhappy marriage for pretty much their entire 40 year relationship and I wonder, was she taking it out on my sister and I? Was she unable to control my dad’s behavior (classic emotional abuse, stonewalling, gaslighting etc) so she tried to control us instead? I have no idea.

When I think back to some of things she did, I know, absolutely know, it would be classed as emotional abuse. I work now in a career where I’m in contact with domestic abuse/vulnerable adults/children and if a child came to me and said a parent had done to them what my mum did to me, I would be horrified and probably flagging the family.

For example, when I was a teenager (around 13/14) I was suffering from terrible acne. My mum took me to the doctor who suggested going on the pill but said a side-effect was weight gain. He weighed me and said I was slightly overweight (I look back at photos of me then and think there was absolutely nothing wrong with my weight) and my mum got it into her head I was fat so put me on a strict diet. After a few weeks of dieting, one evening all the family was given pudding (I remember it was apple pie) but I wasn’t allowed any. I asked if I could have some, I probably did whine and moan to be honest, but my mum lost her shit and sent me to my room. Later on she came with half the pudding still in the dish, piled high with ice cream and custard and said ‘you wanted pudding, well now you’re going to stand here and eat this whole thing’. I remember just standing in my room crying my eyes out saying I didn’t want it and we were in a stand off for about half an hour before she took the pie off me and told me to never argue with her again.

When I was 20 (still living at home) a long-time friend of mine asked me out. We’d been friends since we were 16 and my mum had met him loads of times, but I didn’t tell her we were going on a ‘date’. He unexpectedly bought me flowers and the next day she was quizzing me about them and then was pissed of with me that I didn’t tell her in advance it was a date. She sulked for a couple of days and didn’t really speak to me. I really have no idea why, she really liked him.

My sister recently revealed that when she started her period, it was really light so it wasn’t what she was expecting so she didn’t realize it was her period. She panicked and tried to throw away her stained pants (which my mum found) and apparently my mum went mad, screaming and shouting, saying why didn’t she tell her etc etc. My sister said she ended up crying and hiding in her room.

There are loads of other examples but I don’t want to list them now. My general recollection of childhood is always wanting to please, never being able to speak up for myself, poor communication and the feeling that my parents/adults were always right.

But what I don’t understand is that they also did loads for us growing up- made huge financial sacrifices so we could have a good education (my mum went years buying clothes from charity shops because she couldn’t buy new because of our school fees), help to buy my first home, also they helped me renovate my house without asking for any recompense. They seemed happy to do it.

We do have an okay relationship now, I don’t really tell them much about what’s going on in my life but pre-Covid I’d see them once or twice a week with DD and it was fine.

There’s so much more I could go into about my mother’s behavior but I’m not sure I can go until that right now- I’ve written so much already!

I don’t know what I’m after from this post, other than reassurance that this isn’t normal? If you’ve got this far then thanks for reading!

I have also read on here about FOG and can definitely confirm I suffered from that for years, though I am getting better at setting boundaries in that respect.

What was your dad like when you were growing up?

Do you know what your mother's parents were like?

@BrownShed
My childhood was similar - huge sacrifices made by my parents - mother in particular to privately educate us. Unhappy marriage. Both my parents had tough childhoods with poor parenting. They weren't "good enough" parents and as a result all of their children have suffered.

I think your insights into their marriage explain a lot. That your mother chose a husband who treated her so badly indicates she was probably not treated well by her own parents.

I'm a lot more forgiving of my mother's failures than I used to be - I have found covid stressful. My entire childhood was an enormously stressful time for my mother.

@ReggaePerrin My dad was mostly absent growing up (shift worker). Mum was the one who ran the house and dished out the discipline. I would say my dad was mostly disinterested in us though he worked very hard to provide for us. I get on better with him now I’m older, he’s a bit more chilled now I’d say.

My mother’s mother is still alive and they don’t have a great relationship. My mum has a lot of anger towards her mother and views her with distain/contempt. My grandfather died when I was a baby. I know my grandmother had an affair at some point and my mum is convinced that her dad isn’t her dad, which I think is where some of the anger comes from. But we don’t discuss this ever- we are a family of non-communicators and we have to pretend we don’t have any emotions or feelings and everything is a-ok all the time

That's quite telling, Brown. I think it's important that you can see the connection and be the one to break it for your own children.

Are you able to talk to your sister about your shared experiences? You say you're not sure what you want from your post but I think it helps to get things out of your system, even if you can't talk to the person concerned.

My mother and father are similar and I’ve started reading this book about parents with BPD. It could have been written about my life! Of course, I cannot diagnose either of my parents but I am finding the advice in the book helpful.

I’m hoping to able to let go some of the pain and childhood conditioning by viewing their behaviours as symptoms of an illness.

Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds and Build Trust, Boundaries and Self-esteem www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1572243287/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_omdcGb4GA0ZCY?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You have taken a small but significant step in writing about your parents on here. It is the start of your recovery from their abuses of you as their now adult child.

How does your sister get on with them these days?.

What are you like at setting boundaries these days with your parents?.
Do you find that difficult?. Do they actually respect any boundary you set them?.

It is NOT your fault your parents are like this and you did not make them that way. Their families did that to them.

This sort of toxic dysfunction you describe (all respectable on the surface but rubbish underneath; its all very typical of a narcissistic family structure) can and does go down the generations but it looks like it has and will stop with you. You also have two qualities that your mother and father lack; empathy and insight. I cannot stress enough the narcissist's total lack of empathy here; they really have none.

It is often only when adult children from emotionally unhealthy dysfunctional families become parents themselves do they start to realise that their own upbringing was not as great as they were led to believe. This is now happening with you and its a common scenario.

You state she was very controlling and quick to anger; I would think that sadly she still is. She has not really changed and nor for that matter has your dad; oh he may have mellowed a bit but he has done a lot here to harm you as his now adult children. Your dad also failed you abjectly as a parent here too by failing to protect your sister and you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. He likely also used shift work as a ways of keeping out of his wife's way. He is a weak bystander and bully of a man who has also acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Their relationship is a destructive one born of codependency and their own childhood experiences. Pound to a penny both their childhoods were mired in abuse; its a reason but not an excuse. Emotionally healthy individuals do not behave like these people. These two had a choice when it came to your sister and you and they chose to mete out similar as to what was done to them, thus harming in the process. Women like your mother also cannot do relationships so look to men like your dad here to enable them, he remains very much her willing enabler here.

Do look at and post on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages and read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as a starting point.

You were given stuff materially (and their "help" now still comes with stringss; this also will tie into your sense of obligation because they "helped" you financially or with decorating etc) but emotionally you were and remain bereft. They are the sort who would turn around and say, "look at what we've done for you". Narcissistic parents in particular make for being deplorably bad parents so it is of no real surprise you are floundering about now along with struggling with FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

I would suggest you look for a BACP registered therapist and find someone who fits in with your approach. This person too must have NO familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment so the first person you see may not necessarily be the right one. Interview such people carefully and at length before deciding.

A good rule of thumb here is if parents/relatives are too toxic/difficult/emotionally unhealthy or otherwise too batshit for you to deal with, its the SAME deal for your children too. Keep your child well away from your parents going forward. You also need to gradually reduce all levels of contact with them. Its no point discussing your childhood with your mother or father; such disordered of thinking people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Both you and Fresh Eggs may find this website helpful as well:-

outofthefog.website/

I can completely relate. It's very upsetting and distressing.
I thought I was the problem from the age of 4 upwards. Has caused me to have severe mental health problems. Now I'm happily married my husband, who is very astute can give me perspective and reassure me it's not me.
My sister,brother and I are united in my mum's awful behaviour. It's all the time.
My sister and I wonder if our mum is autistic, not that it's an excuse but could be an answer.

I'll give you one of the more light hearted (albeit typically hurtful) examples.
My fiancé calls my dad to ask for my hand in marriage. Very sweet and obviously a little stressful. My dad and fiancé chat for a bit, my mum muscles into the convo dismisses the proposal because it's not of interest to her and says to my partner glad I got you on the phone because I wanted to talk to you about my diet and running.

What you are describing re your mother is not linked to autism.

What was life like for you as children growing up within such a dysfunctional home?.

What you describe is akin to your mother having some form of personality disorder. She made that conversation between your dad and fiance all about her. Narcissistic people like nothing more than to make everything about them. Indeed its not you, its your mother and its not your fault she is like this. What if anything do you know about her own childhood, that often gives clues.

Where is your dad in all this; is he merely acting as her enabler here?. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so look for a willing enabler to help them, that person here is your dad. He cannot be relied upon either.

I would also urge you to have a look at the Out of the FOG website.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed reply.

It’s funny how you mention ‘being respectable’ on the surface because my mum was obsessed with being ‘a girl from a council estate’. My grandparents didn’t have many opportunities after the war so they did live in social housing and my mum seems to resent that. We come from a small place where everyone knows everyone and she used to really worry what people thought of her. My dad was considered quite a heartthrob and came from a well respected family with a bit of wealth, people couldn’t believe she’d ‘bagged one of the Jones brothers’ when their engagement was announced.

I feel like she’s always been trying to keep up this perfect imagine and if her kids weren’t perfect then it didn’t fit with that narrative?

I don’t know if she fits the narc personality type though- can you have parts of that personality type without being a full blown narc? For example, she can be moody and stroppy if things don’t go her way, but she’s never spoiled big events by making it ‘all about her’, having tantrums or trying to guilt/emotionally manipulate people into doing it her way (like some of the examples I’ve read on this board over the years)

And actually @AttilaTheMeerkat the loaning of the money to help with the house purchase did become a stick with which to beat me later

Your mother probably loved you very much, and wanted to be a good mother, but it sounds like she had desperately bad emotional coping skills combined with probably relatively low intelligence.

The examples you gave to us sound a lot like a person who had zero clue how the fuck to cope with fear and uncertainty. So she took it out on her kids.

My mum was really similar. Its so hard to be the child in that situation. To be clear I am not trying to excuse her... my compassion lies with you.

Your mum was flawed and she made some really bad choices. She hurt you. Its ok to still love her, you don't have to completely demonize her or chuck the whole relationship in the bin - but equally, you're also allowed to put distance between the two of you. You arent obliged to trust her or give her more chances. Love can be a distant thing and still be love.

Has anyone had counselling or could suggest a type of therapy? I'd be interested in pursuing this.

Btw when I mentioned autism spectrum this is quite valid as my sister and I work with those who are autistic. I am not for one minute saying this is the issue BUT just a suggestion.
Maybe my sister and I use this as an excuse to feel better.

My mum has definitely got borderline personality disorder or something like that.

And to validate you OP you are not imagining it. It is so hurtful and painful I felt like my whole life childhood was destroyed by my mother.
I have bottled it up ,too scared to think about it

Your post struck an emotional cord, since having my daughter there was a lot of pain in the things id remember from my childhood, my father was emotionally devoid but my mother was loving to the point of suffocation and then could turn on me in a second through violence or withdrawing amy love or attention for the smallest mistakes. She also is an extremely generous person so there is a lot of confusion just like your situation. Its weird, sometimes I think it would be easier if she was one way or another.

Hi Countrywalking

re your comments in quote marks:-
"Has anyone had counselling or could suggest a type of therapy? I'd be interested in pursuing this".

I would find a BACP registered therapist that has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment so the first person you come across may not be the right one. Interview such people carefully and at length.

I would also suggest you post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationship pages and have a look at the resources listed at the start of that thread too.

"Btw when I mentioned autism spectrum this is quite valid as my sister and I work with those who are autistic. I am not for one minute saying this is the issue BUT just a suggestion. Maybe my sister and I use this as an excuse to feel better".

I think you do use ASD as an excuse to make you feel better.

"My mum has definitely got borderline personality disorder or something like that".

Its far more likely she has some form of untreated and untreatable personality disorder. Read further about about Cluster B personality disorders; people with cluster B personality disorders can find it hard to control their emotions. Other people might see them as unpredictable. What if anything do you know about her childhood, that often gives clues.