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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Leaving husband - Housing Association house in my sole name

126 replies

doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 11:50

I started a thread last year about my husband and unfortunately things are no further forward.

We live in my HA property (in my sole name).

Every few months or so there is a blow up and he tells me that he wants a divorce. The last one of these was in October.

He started looking for another rented property but he could not find anything that he liked, that would take his cat (he had the cat before we married and doesn't want to leave her with me) and he also has an unsatisfied CCJ for £6k, which means that he would fail any credit checks on a new rented place.

As we are married I cannot throw him out. So in October I started looking at alternative properties and found a shared ownership house in the next village. I am now at a stage with this where I could exchange and complete and move out of my HA house.

However this would leave him in the property and I am not certain of the implications of this, for example if he carried on paying the rent would he be able to stay there? Or would the HA evict him?

I feel absolutely trapped by my situation. I would prefer to stay in my house and him to leave but he won't move out. If I leave my HA property then he will probably need to find somewhere else to live anyway as they might not give the tenancy to him.

I have spoken to a solicitor who tells me I can just give him notice to leave, but I am not sure this advice is correct, as we are married.The solicitor said you cannot have home rights on a rented property but I don't think this is correct.

Sorry, I am rambling. But I have to make a decision now. Either I pull out of the shared ownership place and stay where I am, with him. Or I move out and give notice on my HA house.

Does anyone have any advice to offer. I have asked my friends but they all think I should stay where I am. However they don't have to live with someone they want to divorce from.

Thanks

OP posts:
Fossey13 · 20/01/2021 16:45

As someone who works in family law and the fact that you are legally qualified yourself this is beyond painful. Please listen to your solicitor they are right!

Your husband has no legal or equitable interest in your HA home. Stay in the house and give him notice to leave. If he kicks off call the police. That is all that is necessary in this situation if you want him to leave.

Is there any financial assets of the marriage? I.e do you have a large pension? If so he may have interest in that but your home is not an asset in this scenario and wouldn’t be up for discussion.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/01/2021 16:46

Oh, and use the last time he asked for a divorce and searched for somewhere else to live as your date of separation... especially if he signed up to an agent or viewed somewhere.

Wanderlusto · 20/01/2021 16:47

Actially starting to wonder if this is a reverse.

It just beggars belief that anyone would work this hard to hold onto a partner they at
are supposedly trying to get out.

Wanderlusto · 20/01/2021 16:47

*they are

Bex19999 · 20/01/2021 16:52

I agree that changing the locks as previous posters have said is the best option

Speaking as a housing officer Calling the HA and asking for another property as someone else suggested is not going to work. Moves within the HA are for residents who are at very high risk of DA or gang violence etc.

The HA will literally see this as a relationship breakdown with someone you invited in to your home, therefore you must be that person to tell them leave we can’t and don’t get involved in that.

Even if there was DA involved if the victim won’t call the police and ask for the partner to be removed housing cannot assist in moving the victim whilst the partner is still in situ.

We get people calling in all the time even parents who have adult children living there and want them out. It’s the same in this situation, it is the tenancy holders responsibility to ask the person they invited in to their home to leave.

doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 16:55

Why on earth would this be a reverse?

Fossey13. I deal with Wills, probate, trusts and tax so this is not my area at all. And we don't deal with housing law where I work, it's just a high street firm that does conveyancing and private client. My friend works as a solicitor at another, larger firm, and she referred me to her colleague who is a litigation lawyer and he is the one who gave me the advice to give him notice.

OP posts:
glitterfarts · 20/01/2021 16:56

File for divorce. Kick him out immediately. Call the police.
Do not give up a HA house. Are you mad?
It's secure.

MrsBobDylan · 20/01/2021 18:30

Do your son a favour and save him from yet another move - KICK H OUT AND CHANGE THE LOCKS!!!!!!!

If you buy a SO place or privately rent, your H will be evicted from your home and will come knocking at your (new) door. If you believe so strongly he has 'rights' will you let him in?

ExtraSettings · 20/01/2021 18:40

Solicitors are sometimes wrong!!!! I googled something and had to bring it to my legal aid solicitors attention! He argued with me (arrogant and unpleasant to boot)) but guess what I was right!

Anything important, legal or medical, I like a second opinion!

Sorry haven’t followed the thread OP.

ExtraSettings · 20/01/2021 18:41

I’d get proper legal advice in writing, and pay for it.

AmberItsACertainty · 20/01/2021 18:56

OP, Shelter is an organisation which aims to prevent homelessness. They do this sometimes by advising people to do illegal things, like staying where they've got no legal rights to, if that's what keeps a roof over their heads. Phone the housing association, tell them your ex husband refuses to leave and ask for permission to change the locks. The do it. You're not lying, he is refusing to leave, he's had a year. People don't have the right to hang around forever in someone else's home because they "can't find somewhere they like", they move to what is available, even if that means rehoming the cat. Listen to the solicitor, they're telling the truth. This is your HA property, and unless you don't like it there and wanted to move anyway, you'd be mad to give it up.

MiddlesexGirl · 20/01/2021 19:03

Why are people arguing against the passage of law that op cut and pasted?
That seems pretty clear to me.
What in it can be used to get a spouse out?
Or are pp advising op to ignore the law because the spouse would have to go to court to get back in?

Haffiana · 20/01/2021 19:06

OP, why have you come here to ask for advice rather than paying a different solicitor for the 1 hour it would take to get a second proper legal opinion?

What do you want us to say?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/01/2021 19:11

@doloresclaiborne

Why on earth would this be a reverse?

Fossey13. I deal with Wills, probate, trusts and tax so this is not my area at all. And we don't deal with housing law where I work, it's just a high street firm that does conveyancing and private client. My friend works as a solicitor at another, larger firm, and she referred me to her colleague who is a litigation lawyer and he is the one who gave me the advice to give him notice.

I seriously hope you have a better grasp on your area of expertise at work than you do your own tenancy and the rights it affords.
RantyAnty · 20/01/2021 19:18

File for. Divorce
Give him notice that he has to leave.
You're making it far more difficult for you.

doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 19:19

I do actually. Funnily enough knowing about one area of law doesn’t mean you are an expert in all subjects. That’s why different solicitors deal with different aspects of law.

Even solicitors need legal advice occasionally

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/01/2021 19:20

@doloresclaiborne

I do actually. Funnily enough knowing about one area of law doesn’t mean you are an expert in all subjects. That’s why different solicitors deal with different aspects of law.

Even solicitors need legal advice occasionally

I wasn't comparing your law with housing law. I was comparing your knowledge of law with the actual tenancy you hold and presumably have read and signed. The sheet of paper. The contract.
movingonup20 · 20/01/2021 19:21

You need to legally separate if you are buying in your name otherwise he automatically has a claim on it

doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 19:28

I posted here because it’s a forum and I thought others may have been through similar and I was hoping to get some support/advice. Oh well, lesson learnt. I have an appointment now with a solicitor who specialises in this subject and from the email she sent me to confirm the appointment i can’t just change the locks. Well obviously physically I could, but there might be consequences to doing that. I’ll take her advice and make a decision about the best way forward.

Because of previous childhood trauma and DV I don’t cope well with stress and the thought of staying here while the divorce is going through is making me ill. He would make things very difficult and he won’t go easily.

OP posts:
doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 19:31

all BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz - don’t be ridiculous. The tenancy agreement has fuck all to do with matrimonial home rights and the law.

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 20/01/2021 19:41

The tenancy agreement has fuck all to do with matrimonial home rights and the law

He doesn't have rights to your home, married or not, because he isn't on the tenancy.

RickiTarr · 20/01/2021 19:46

I’m pretty sure marriage gives you certain rights to live in the marital home whether it’s rented or owned, sole name or joint.

doloresclaiborne · 20/01/2021 19:48

It doesn’t matter that he’s not on the tenancy. It’s totally irrelevant.

30 Rights concerning [F2home where one spouse or civil partner] has no estate, etc.

(1)This section applies if—

(a)one spouse [F3 or civil partner (“A”)] is entitled to occupy a dwelling-house by virtue of—

(i)a beneficial estate or interest or contract; or

(ii)any enactment giving [F4A] the right to remain in occupation; and

(b)the other spouse [F5 or civil partner (“B”)] is not so entitled.

(2)Subject to the provisions of this Part, [F6B] has the following rights ([F7“home rights”])—

(a)if in occupation, a right not to be evicted or excluded from the dwelling-house or any part of it by [F8A] except with the leave of the court given by an order under section 33;

(b)if not in occupation, a right with the leave of the court so given to enter into and occupy the dwelling-house.

(3)If [F9B] is entitled under this section to occupy a dwelling-house or any part of a dwelling-house, any payment or tender made or other thing done by [F9B] in or towards satisfaction of any liability of [F10A] in respect of rent, mortgage payments or other outgoings affecting the dwelling-house is, whether or not it is made or done in pursuance of an order under section 40, as good as if made or done by [F10A].

(4)[F11B's] occupation by virtue of this section—

(a)is to be treated, for the purposes of the M1Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976 and the M2Rent Act 1977 (other than Part V and sections 103 to 106 of that Act), as occupation [F12by A as A's] residence, and

(b)if [F13B occupies the dwelling-house as B's] only or principal home, is to be treated, for the purposes of the M3Housing Act 1985 [F14, Part I of the Housing Act 1988 [F15, Chapter 1 of Part 5 of the Housing Act 1996 and the Prevention of Social Housing Fraud Act 2013]], as occupation [F16by A as A's] only or principal home.

(5)If [F17B])—

(a)is entitled under this section to occupy a dwelling-house or any part of a dwelling-house, and

(b)makes any payment in or towards satisfaction of any liability of [F18A] in respect of mortgage payments affecting the dwelling-house,

the person to whom the payment is made may treat it as having been made by [F19A], but the fact that that person has treated any such payment as having been so made does not affect any claim of [F20B against A] to an interest in the dwelling-house by virtue of the payment.
(6)If [F21B] is entitled under this section to occupy a dwelling-house or part of a dwelling-house by reason of an interest of [F22A] under a trust, all the provisions of subsections (3) to (5) apply in relation to the trustees as they apply in relation to [F22A].

(7)This section does not apply to a dwelling-house [F23 which—

(a)in the case of spouses, has at no time been, and was at no time intended by them to be, a matrimonial home of theirs; and

(b)in the case of civil partners, has at no time been, and was at no time intended by them to be, a civil partnership home of theirs.]

(8)[F24B’s home rights] continue—

(a)only so long as the marriage [F25or civil partnership] subsists, except to the extent that an order under section 33(5) otherwise provides; and

(b)only so long as [F26A] is entitled as mentioned in subsection (1) to occupy the dwelling-house, except where provision is made by section 31 for those rights to be a charge on an estate or interest in the dwelling-house.

(9)It is hereby declared that [F27a person]—

(a)who has an equitable interest in a dwelling-house or in its proceeds of sale, but

(b)is not [F27a person] in whom there is vested (whether solely or as joint tenant) a legal estate in fee simple or a legal term of years absolute in the dwelling-house,

is to be treated, only for the purpose of determining whether he has [F28home rights], as not being entitled to occupy the dwelling-house by virtue of that interest.

OP posts:
RickiTarr · 20/01/2021 19:48

“ If the tenancy agreement is in your ex-partner’s name

“He or she is responsible for paying the rent. However, you have rights to continue to live in the property while the tenancy exists and while you’re still married or in a civil partnership.

“In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, these are called ‘home rights’.

“In Scotland, you have similar rights to these as what’s called a ‘non-entitled spouse’ or ‘non-entitled civil partner’.

“If your ex-partner moves out, you might be able to take over paying the rent.

“In England and Wales this is something you have the right to do, but in Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s not so clear cut and depends on the tenancy agreement.”

From www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/renting-your-rights-to-your-home-during-divorce-or-dissolution

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