Red flag or am I being precious?

[newyearnewdilemma]

Been with boyfriend nearly two years. We don't live together: I have a child from a previous marriage.

He's a kind, decent man who has treated me in general with consideration and respect and particularly with respect to my daughter, who he's been very tolerant towards. Overall I have no real complaints.

But although he is kind he can be quite emotionally tone deaf and fail to grasp emotional nuances sometimes and I am starting to wonder if we can go the distance because of this.

He seems to really struggle with other people's difficult emotions or negativity or any "serious" emotional discussion and tends to shut down or changes the subject. Until recently this hasn't really bothered me too much because things have generally been pretty good.

But over the past week and a half its been really tough: we've been separated due to COVID because we don't live together we were in a bubble but we're in London and the rates are so high at the moment I took the difficult decision to ask him not to come over at all for 2-3 weeks. My daughter has asthma and at the moment I just don't want her going anywhere near a hospital so I'm totally limiting all contact. (Before anyone asks we have no plans to move in together just yet its too soon for my daughter and I don't want this yet and I don't want this to be forced upon us due to COVID).

I had a bit of a meltdown on New Year's Day: was really sad about the situation and also really worried about my DD etc and had a little cry down the phone. He was hungover (which is fair enough on NYD) and being a bit dozy and distracted but knew I was in a bad way emotionally and when I said how much I was missing him and how much I needed his support he shrugged it off with a silly, smutty joke about how much sex we would have next time we saw one another.

I know it wasn't intended to be callous and it was probably his clumsy way of trying to cheer me up, but I was just struck by the emotional fuckwittery of this. It made me feel really bleak and depressed that he couldn't tell that a sex joke was clunkingly inappropriate when I was in that frame of mind. I gently pulled him up on it and he again shrugged it off.

It's all "fine" again now but it isn't really IYSWIM. I feel quite distanced from him because he wasn't able to get how sad and depressed I was and how inappropriate a response it was.

He's very kind and loving but he has done this at other times: there's been several occasions that if I say I'm stressed and upset about something his comeback will be "well, I can help you de-stress when I come over (wink wink)". Its all perfectly harmless and well-intended but somehow it strikes a really wrong note with me. I've signalled to him before that I don't like it but I don't want to come down like a ton of bricks because at the end of the day sex is important in our relationship and I don't want him to feel like he's being rejected. But I don't want to feel like that's the only set of parameters.

Am I over-reacting or should I listen to my instinct that this isn't someone who can handle the tough emotional stuff in life and should I think about moving on?

A lot of people are uncomfortable with certain emotions due to how they were brought up, as a child you are often taught that certain feelings are more acceptable than others. That will get in the way of empathy later in life.
His doesn't sound overly severe, but it doesn't sound like you have been clear with him even though it has affected you.
I think you need to be really clear that you understand he is uncomfortable with some emotions, but you just need him to lean in to the feeling even so, then you will feel more supported.
If you can discuss it openly then you can solve it.
If you are still struggling and you want to continue the relationship on other accounts, getting help from a counsellor would be a good idea. But both people have to want to help things for that to work.
Good luck! And I'm sure you can solve this!

And to answer your question it doesn't seem like a "red flag" and you are not being too precious, you are entitled to your feelings of course.

Rather than not being able to handle tough emotional stuff, it would signal to me that he sees me as just his current bit of fun. And is as shallow as a tea strainer. Either that or he is just a bit tactless.

I think really it depends what you want from life. On the bright side, he is company (usually) and it seems to be pleasant company for the most part. And is content, like you, to live apart.

However, it sounds like he may not be marriage and father material if this is something you may want from him down the line.

I think it's always good to listen to your gut. Though in this case, I think I would just pay close attention for a bit longer and see how I felt. But take the time apart to get an idea of what you want moving forwards to and visualise your future and whether or not he plays a part.

Did he want sex every time he saw you? Moody of you didn't? May tell if he is emotionally or just physically invested..

My STBXDH is like this. It was even mentioned at marriage counselling. Seems it is a product of his upbringing and he really struggled with it. Said it felt like an actual blockage. When I had our first baby he said Well done.! FFS

But just because your man doesn't respond the way you feel he should, doesn't mean he doesn't care . Might find it awkward over phone , etc., but if he was there he could hug you.

Wanderlusto

I'm not looking for "marriage or father material" no... I'm too old to have kids now and don't want any more. I'm also perfectly happy living on my own and even if my DD were happy I probably wouldn't want him to move in. I certainly don't want to get married again.

In some ways it suits me to be with someone who isn't pushing for more and is very respectful of the boundaries of our different lives.

But I do want someone with sufficient emotional intelligence that they realise that defaulting to comments about sex isn't very sensitive. I know he values the relationship overall and for him its more than just sex as he's stuck with it through a lot of adverse circumstances (including being physically threatened by my ex and being apart for three months) but I need him to articulate it to me and not be afraid of occasional vulnerability. I'm not a needy person as a general rule: I don't require a lot of emotional hand-holding and am quite self-sufficient but I want someone to be able to tell when I am down and need support.

Santaisironingwrappingpaper he does like sex a lot but he's not remotely coercive: he's always very respectful if I don't want it and has never bullied or sulked or anything like that.

Also its not particularly just about sex.

The impression I get is that he really struggles to talk about his own feelings and emotions and diverts to "jokes" in order not to have to go there.

How tedious. This signals that he is not really listening to you. So instead of having a two way conversation about feelings, he shuts it down with an offer of sex, as if this is great panacea. Which it probably is for him. As I say, tedious.

My other half is like this, he's extremely pragmatic and practical. That's just the wya he is
He absolutely worships the ground I walk on, loves the bones of me, and would do anything for my son and I. However put him on an emotional conversation and he will say a dick ish comment because he panics. He's openly admits this, takes on board when I point it out, but it's just one of those things. Nobody's faultless and this is his.

Sometimes it can annoy me, mostly I try and see the funny side of him being crap again. However to me, its his actions that mean more. Too many people are clever with words but when the shit hits the fan, you can't see them for dust.
Talk to him if you want, but it might just be the way he is, in which case you have to work out what's important to you.

It's not a malicious red flag and you're not being over sensitive but it does sound like emotional immaturity and that is very frustrating. A PP mentioned that he might have been brought up to avoid or make a silly joke to try and ease emotional situations. If you're in a relationship, sometimes serious discussions and support need to happen and you need to listen to your partner, and it can't just be laughed off.

You say he's a kind hearted man and this is likely clumsiness. What do you think would happen if you let him know exactly how this makes you feel and asked why he does this? Keep it reasonably brief but be really clear that during that conversation, you don't want any joking around.

If he doesn't discuss it sensibly and try to be more supportive over a certain period then I would be rethinking. Feeling bleak when you occasionally ask to be listened to is not nice (been there, very kind guy, showed his love by doing anything for me but from a background where men just don't really have emotional discussions with women) and it really isn't too much to ask to be able to talk candidly about how you feel from time to time.

Hmm...its a tough one. But because you say he is kind in general I think I would struggle to see this as a deal breaker.

Do you have friends that you could lean on for more in depth convos? Do you get the sense that covid aside, if something bad were to happen, he would at least be there physically for you?

I think sometimes we cant get everything we need from just one person. We need a support network if people. Like, we cant expect a fork to do the job of a spoon but it certainly has its uses. I wouldnt throw it away for not being a spoon. I'd just find a spoon too. Not suggesting a bit on the side of course lol, just that maybe you need to develop other friendships and relationships for the kind of support you are looking for.

He may not be the brightest spark or know what to say when you struggle sometimes but it appears his heart is in the right place.

It sounds so annoying tbh... You need to feel supported in the relationship and not that you'll be brushed off with some lame joke about sex or whatever. I would suggest having a heart to heart with him... don't tell him that's what your doing but try to find a way in to get him to open up. You could try asking him a random question about what his parents were like with a certain thing. Or maybe get straight to the point and say you've noticed he's always joking when there's hard emotions to deal with and speak about why that could Be. It's not a grilling but a conversation that gradually gets deeper over time and builds trust

I had dc when I met now dh. Ime he assumed I was way way too independant and self sufficient to 'need' any support of any kind. Took a while to click I wasn't actually Superwoman..

I think you’re being a pathetic but then again he’s clearly a bit immature too?

baileys6904

Yes this is what my bf is like: he shows love through practical support and he will do anything I ask on this front and frequently volunteers to do things for me and DD. I know he does his best.

yellowhighheels yes, I think you're exactly right about his upbringing. I know his parents had a very acrimonious divorce and his mum had a severe breakdown from which she has essentially never recovered and my armchair diagnosis is that he is frightened of emotional displays particularly where they involve women. He is clearly very uncomfortable discussing his own emotions and will very rarely open up to me about how he feels about anything difficult.

To be fair if I point out that I'm upset he will never get defensive and will always apologise and tell me he loves me etc, but he seems quite bad sometimes at reading my moods and gauging how something will land.

But yes the "bleak" feeling really hit me hard. I don't necessarily want to have soul-baring discussions with him all the time as I find that pretty draining but I do want someone who can step up emotionally from time to time when I'm in a bad way.

Ironically my ex, who was emotionally manipulative and abusive, was actually much better at reading my emotions and could tell immediately if something was wrong. Although I appreciate my boyfriend's kindness and level-headedness, I sometimes miss being with someone who knows when something is wrong and knows that its OK sometimes to be irrationally upset.

I think you are not a good fit for each other. TBH you are being a bit of a snowflake and men who 'talk about their feelings' can be the vilest of them all. Your expectations of how men and should be sound a little young to me and while this man is a little immature and no doubt a bit rubbish with his words that doesn't make him an unfeeling arsehole. But it does make him wrong fit you right now.

Be very careful in the dating world though because articulate men who talk about feelings with ease and say all of the right things can turn out to be very dangerous. Like the love bombers for example.

But I think you are entitled to want a man who is a better communicator. He's not wrong but neither are you.

I could probably be judged in the same way as your boyfriend OP. And for people mentioning childhood issues that's almost certainly a factor for me - open displays of emotion were very much frowned upon, crying certainly never achieved anything.

I'll tell you what's going through my head at these times - I want to help, I want to find solutions, but I am afraid of entering an emotional headspace where I am similarly down. I recognise that sometimes options, solutions, suggestions aren't wanted...sometimes, to me, it feels that what the other person actually wants is for me to be upset alongside them...to intensely share their pain and I'm afraid to go there. I'm afraid of being expected to wallow.

I'm also afraid that if I do it once that expectation will be placed on me from that point onwards in the relationship and that it may come to characterise the relationship. I am afraid of the emotional burden that it may have on my health and so I can find myself retreating. So I have instinctively backed away from relationships that feel like there will be an intense emotional expectation (in a negative direction) because I can't provide it and I know that will be resented. Humorous distractions (what I think your bf is attempting to do) practical solutions, advice, suggestions, talking, yes - I can do all of that, but I perhaps have unreasonable expectations that everything can quickly be fixed if we just go through those.

SueDeNimm

I totally get that the men who "talk about their feelings" can be charlatans. And I've been very clear that he's not an "unfeeling arsehole".

You might be right that I've been a bit of a snowflake but you have to admit that these are properly extenuating circumstances right now. I don't think its unreasonable to be upset at a time when you can't do anything and can't see your loved ones. I don't expect him to read my mind but I do think he should be able to factor into a calculation that I'm sad and scared at the moment.

As to whether we're a good fit or not, who knows. Until a fortnight ago none of this really bothered me. I have been really upset by being separated from him and I hope when things normalise a bit I will feel more resilient. But I'd still like to feel that he could grasp the impact of this situation on me without having to have it spelled out.

“we cant get everything we need from just one person. We need a support network if people. Like, we cant expect a fork to do the job of a spoon but it certainly has its uses. I wouldnt throw it away for not being a spoon. I'd just find a spoon too. Not suggesting a bit on the side of course lol, just that maybe you need to develop other friendships and relationships for the kind of support you are looking for.”

This is my view (slightly edited from the previous post which began “I sometimes think...” because I think this is always true). No-one’s perfect. I’m sure I don’t tick all my DH’s boxes and I know he doesn’t tick all of mine. He’s another who shows his love for me through practical assistance rather than very attuned listening. But the practical assistance frees me of considerable burdens which I would otherwise have to carry and is therefore invaluable. And we tick enough of the most important boxes for us to have a deeply loving, satisfying and contented relationship in which we both grow.

So the question for me would be: does he tick enough of your important boxes, not does he tick every box? I would mistrust the latter in any case because no single adult should be everything to another adult.

suggestionsplease1

That's a really helpful bit of insight. I do totally get this. I find people who bang on about their interior emotional life all the time pretty draining and I know what you mean about not wanting to get dragged into negativity as it sets a precedent.

I like the fact that he's positive and upbeat as a general rule. But there are times when everyone feels sad and shit and wants to feel they are being "heard" and responded to by their nearest and dearest. I can count on one hand in the two years we've been together the number of times I've expressed this to him.

Dery

I agree. I fully agree that its not helpful to seek everything from one person.

In general terms he does tick most of the important boxes most of the time.

It sounds a bit daft but I think I wanted some recognition from him that we have come through a very tough time and in general we are still strong together and haven't really had this. I think its just not how he rolls, and I need to put it behind me.

I think I'm just feeling unusually wobbly at the moment and it will pass.

Thanks all.

At some level, it seems like you’re deliberately keeping him at arms length from your life - don’t want to see him currently, don’t think you ever want to move in together, don’t want to blend him into your life with your daughter. And all that’s absolutely fine if that’s what’s best for you and your life; but if a partner was giving me those signals, I’d struggle to properly invest emotionally in them, as well. Does he maybe see you as just something casual because that’s really all you’re offering?

ComtesseDeSpair

This has been partially true historically I think and its true that I've proceeded with extreme caution in order not to upset my daughter by rushing things. Also COVID and attendant lockdowns haven't helped. Fundamentally I'm very comfortable with the idea of living apart from him for some time and don't feel the need to rush things.

But increasingly I have felt that if we are to go the distance we should plan to live together eventually and now we've been talking about how it could work: I asked him about this about a month ago and he said he would like to live with me but thinks we should wait until my daughter is a bit older. I'm unsure as to whether this is a pragmatic approach or a stalling tactic and have been mulling over in my head whether this is a bad sign.

He hasn't got children. At one level he seems quite adaptable to the idea of a "family life" and is fine with my daughter when she's here and fits well into our life. But at some other levels I think it would be quite a shock to the system. He seems unable to grasp how much work it is looking after a child.

Now doesn't seem the time to push this discussion as it would be impossible for us to move in together now and I feel quite strongly that COVID is a bad reason for couples to accelerate plans to move in for all sorts of reasons and particularly when there are children in the mix. But I think we will need to think about this properly when things open up a bit.

Just to add... if I sound conflicted about the moving in point its because I am. I flip flop all the time between wanting him to be part of my family and being scared to give up my space and also being concerned that our lifestyles may not mesh that well.

We are very different people and we rub along together pretty well but he has some interests which I suspect would start to irritate me if I had to live with him.

It's always to some degree a trade-off but because I have a DD who found the departure of her dad traumatic and difficult I am very loathe to bring someone new into the family if either there is a question over his commitment or if had worries that he wouldn't participate in family life. I don't want to bring someone in who would then move out in a year. Obviously there are never any guarantees but I think you need to be as certain as you can be and at the moment I'm not.