Confused by behaviour

[ConfusedAndNotDazed]

Not really sure what I'm after here, perhaps some clarity and logical advice from someone not as deep in this situation as I am?

I've been in a relationship with a someone for most of this year, it's been intense at points, but I've never felt such a connection with someone else. We had an agreement to be totally open, and I discussed things with her that I've never mentioned to anyone else, she did the same. We pretty much messaged and called 24/7.

A bit of background. She used to live in a commune in another country, is fairly alternative, and always planned to head back there. We met, and those plans were put on hold.

She was still living with her Mother, and when lockdown hit in November, her brother and his GF planned to stay at her Mothers house too. She panicked, and on a whim went to stay at the commune with little notice. She pretty much text me from the airport.

This caused a bit of friction, but we discussed and resolved it. She planned to come back after lockdown. Whilst there, she got more involved in the commune (they have rules like no electronic devices in communal areas) and so contact dropped. This caused some discussions and her initial planned return in 4 weeks, turned into 6 weeks, then 8. This wasn't discussed, and we had our first arguments. We literally had no disagreements in the time we were together until this point.

She was obviously really hurt by the arguments, and 2 weeks ago, she dramatically cut contact. What contact I received was restrained, and was not as open as before.

She finally told me that she plans to stay there and engage with the commune for an unspecified time. It might be years, so she doesn't see how the relationship can work for now, especially given the recent arguments.

She told me she loves me, she knows we'll be together again at some point, but she just cant do it now, and she wants to remain friends.

This obviously hurt a lot, I tried to discuss it, but she shut down all such conversations, saying it felt like too much pressure.

I've tried to be friends, but she's totally changed her interaction with me. She will leave my messages read for hours whilst going on and off whatsApp (I know I shouldn't check, but it's such a marked difference to the entirety of our relationship).

A few days ago, she text me to say she really misses me, but she's deliberately being distant and not sharing as so to create emotional distance for her. She also asked me to wait for her, but she wouldn't engage with any of my questions.

Two days ago, I told her I can't do this, I can't support her whilst she systematically destroys our connection, but using her contact with me as an emotional support to do this. I cut contact.

It still hurts a lot and I'm not sure I've done the right thing. She seemed to have all the control, and to know she still loved me, yet she was doing this, I'm not sure I could cope with trying to be friends as I saw her increasingly pull away and refuse to engage.

She's never had any long term relationships, and she finds it difficult to emotionally open to people. We'd talked about this in depth. She always emotionally closes herself off when she gets too close - I thought she'd overcome it with me, but it seems to be what's happening right now.

Am I fooling myself that there's any hope of any kind of reconciliation now or in the future? When together in person, it was amazing. She literally said she's never been so comfortable with anyone else. If she hadn't have gone to the commune, we'd still be together and still be happy.

You have done the right thing to cut all contact .
She seems to be avoidant and if it wasn't the commune it would be something else. One person shouldn't have all the power in a relationship and asking you to 'wait for her ' would be a dealbreaker for most people . She has not eight to expect that off you. Keep no contact and move on .

No right , sorry

If she hadn't have gone to the commune, we'd still be together and still be happy

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. You're being messed about by a very selfish person. She's really not as lovely as you've decided she is.

The relationship is over. She sounds like hard work.

She doesn’t care about you.
She upped and left.
She emotionally abandoned you after you opening up and being vulnerable.
She has been fading you out.

That must hurt.

She is not a kind, respectful or loyal person.

Detach and protect yourself emotionally.

If she hadn't have gone to the commune, we'd still be together and still be happy.

No. Because if she was happy with the life she had with you, despite the arguments, she wouldn't have gone to the commune. Or if she absolutely had to go, she would be keen to come back.

She may be a lovely, fun person. That does not mean she is ready or able to be in a relationship. You are not a fixer, or a psychologist, that you can get an adult to change their behaviour through love and hope.

You should also consider why you value yourself so little, that you are putting up with these scraps from someone who has shown you repeatedly you are not what they want. And why you actually want to reconcile with this person. I would look up 'Attachment Theory' - to help you understand patterns of chasing after love and affection from an unavailable person, and how to break this habit.

If youre so compatible and so meant to be together you should go and join her in her commune.

Sadly i think you may have massively over idealised the potential here and your compatibility. You'll realise in time, just as she already has.

You have absolutely done the right thing in cutting ties with this woman.
She has shown you that the commune is her priority, not you. And it sounds like it always will be. Imagine you wait a year for her and she comes back to you, and then sods off to the commune again for an unknown period of time. I couldn't live with that uncertainty and lack of commitment.

The best thing you can do is block her contact details and move on with your life. Please don't put your life on hold for her. You deserve so much better!

Thanks all.

I think what got me so hooked on her is that she chased me hard. I've never had anyone so intent on being in a relationship with me (a possible red flag?) and then the relationship itself was fantastic and intense.

Prior to going to the commune she was interested in moving in together, but it was so sudden that I hesitated. She took this negatively, but we seemed to get over it and discussed moving in together in future. She did state she probably wouldn't have gone if we had moved in together. It wasn't so simple for me though. I have children from a previous marriage - she was fully aware of the situation, and it wasn't a barrier for her. She hadn't met the children yet, but she knew all about them.

She also herself agreed she had selfish tendencies, but she wanted to work on them - this is what was so interesting. She literally told me to call her out on them whenever they arose, because a lot of the time she wasn't aware herself. She wanted us to work on each other as a team. She was very rational, so any argument would upset her. She'd rather be open, state what the issue was, then look for ways at resolving it. This was a totally new way of approaching conflict within a relationship to me, and the level of communication was amazing. We'd planned a future together.

I think I did get too attached to her (until she went to the commune, she was still very much pressuring me for deeper and more meaningful commitment). Either way. I'll maintain no contact and work on myself and my life going forward.

She sounds emotionally intrusive, engulfing, impulsive, erratic and unhinged. Probably has a PD. Your DCs don’t need this type of character in their lives - or their Dad been preoccupied with the exhausting emotional rollercoaster. Bullet dodged.

The reason it’s intense is because it’s not real. It’s a fantasy for her I think, lovelorn and passionate and nothing to do with real life. Much as she lives.

She’s hard work and drama, if that is your bag go ahead, otherwise step away and step away with BIG fucking strides never looking back.

She is a mad head area lee. Avoid all future contact

Christ, she sounds awful frankly. You must be very hurt after being led right up the garden path, but given a bit of time, you'll see you really dodged a bullet here. She has some nerve, the way she's behaved toward you.

You'd be a fool to hang around waiting for someone so fickle.
I think you may be wasting your time
It's your life

Have a look at ‘borderline personality disorder’ or BPD.

Commune or cult?

Am I fooling myself that there's any hope of any kind of reconciliation now or in the future?

Yes, you are completely, utterly, 100% fooling yourself. This woman is a nightmare.

The advice so far is pretty much unanimous... the mention of PD, specifically BPD is interesting. She did have significant childhood trauma in her past in regards to her Dad. This was a major theme in discussions. She also had issues with empathy (recognised), in that she often didn’t realise the effect her actions had on others. Many of her previous relationships ended due to this as many of her ex’s would facilitate rather than challenge her. She often mentioned that she loved me because I wouldn’t let her get away with things, and she’d never been with someone who pushed her to recognise these behaviours and challenged her so much.

Perhaps it was the focus and intensity that hooked me, but it doesn’t make walking away any easier. Thanks all!

@popsydoodle4444

Commune or cult?

You’re not the first to say this to me. They’re very anti-capitalist, and they utilise the psychedelic experience (for interested members) for self development. They’re very paranoid about privacy too - having hour long daily meetings to further the communes goals.

I was going to post that she's clearly very emotionally damaged and look! She's emotionally damaged.

What you need to work out is what's going on with you that you fell for someone avoidant, damaged, selfish, fucked up and focused entirely on herself.

My guess is you have some unresolved trauma as well. Work through that.

Wow. I personally dont think that there is anything in the OP to suggest mental illness. Why is it that someone on Mumsnet ALWAYS diagnoses either the OP, or the person the OP is describing, as having some type of serious mental health condition or personality disorder (usually BPD or NPD). It is bizarre. People can be unkind, selfish, spontaneous, and make bad decisions without being unwell.

I also think that coming to (generally middle-class, often quite conservative Mumsnet) to ask about a person who lives an alternative lifestyle like this is a bit like... I don't know. Going to the Queen to ask for advice about the thoughts of someone who has always lived in poverty. Just totally different lifestyles and experiences so no real understanding.

I live abroad and in the areas I live, I frequently come across 'free spirited' people (as they refer to themselves, although I know many more traditional people would consider them using negative words, like a lot of the posters here). But there are huge numbers of people who choose to live in communes because many aspects of living in a modern capitalist society don't suit them. I mean you only need to look on the AIBU board to see that there are HUGE numbers of people living more mainstream lives who are depressed, struggling, bored, unsatisfied, lost and confused, bumbling through life working a 9-5, living in unhappy marriages, not knowing where their life is going, travelling between their house, the local supermarket and their jobs over and over again until they die, and addicted to their screens trying to create a fake life on social media to pretend they're happy. Some people say no to this and choose and alternative life. These are the type of people who choose communes, in my experience.

As for psychedelic drug use for spiritual reasons, this has been practiced in different cultures all over the world for thousands of years. It is not for me, but I would not judge someone for choosing to occasionally practice this. Again， it is just an alternative lifestyle choice. In Western society we willingly feed ourselves poison in the form of alcohol, sugar, horrible additives, disgusting processed meat, dangerous painkillers... The list goes on. And yet we judge others for using (usually natural) psychadelics. I mean, we are all drugging ourselves with something. And actually, if you talk to 'free-spirited/alternative' people, they often consider people living normal traditional lives to be mentally ill for the reasons I have just listed. But different doesn't mean mentally ill, just like behaving like a dick doesn't.

I can't see what, in your OP, made anyone jump to mental illness. If anything, her reason for initially leaving seems very sensible - if she didn't want to share a home during a global pandemic with people who would be coming and going. But her behaviour after this just seems like she remembered how fun it was there and wants to stay but wants to keep you incase she changes her mind/wants the best of both worlds/maybe has other people she is interested in there and is unsure which life she wants to pick?

My point is, if you had come on here and said "we had a great connection but she got spooked by covid and abruptly flew home/abroad to a place she had previously been living" nobody would have suggested she has BPD or any PD. Because of course she is free to move home (or to a place she considers to be home). But because her lifestyle is alternative, everyone on here is quick to assume she is mentally ill. I just don't think that this is helpful to you because it will maybe make you see her as a poor confused victim who you need to save, rather than someone who just chose something else over you. Which is what she probably is. Sorry OP. But if she really isn't interested and if she is really expecting you to just wait around for her while she basically lives her dream life and ignores you but keeps you as a comfort blanket/something to fall back on... It won't do you any favors to convince yourself she only left you because she is unwell. Do you know what i mean? It wont help you move on. And maybe you need to - from your OP, it sounds like you need to.

It sounds like you two are fundamentally incompatible. If you had any chance, and your connection was as strong as you thought, maybe you'd have considered going with her to experience and try to understand the lifestyle choice which was so important to her. If you didnt want to/were unable to/she didnt want you to go, it just seems like that in itself is a huge incompatibility and in a way it is lucky that she has taken off now rather than when you two live together/are more settled/have kids etc. If this part of her life is totally seperate to you, and she has already gone off like this, will you be able to trust that she won't do it again? If she already took off this early into a relationship, in the honeymoon period? What will it be like when the relationship is more settled and less exciting?

I think you need to have a long think about what you want from a relationship and what you can put up with. If you will never want to move to try her lifestyle, then you can never guarentee you will always be together, because i dont think you will ever be able to be sure that normal life will be enough for her. And so you will never be able to be sure that she wont go again. And if she goes and you can't or won't go with her then you will probably be in this situation again and maybe again and again and again.

But if she wont stay for you, and you won't go for her, does this relationship stand a chance, now or ever?

Hi @SmeleanorSmellstrop

Thanks for you really comprehensive reply. Regarding compatibility, our relationship wouldn't have lasted so long if we didn't have a shared outlook on these areas. This is what was so exciting about a future together, we could explore these areas together. I've very much into daily meditation, we're both vegan and eat PBWF diets, we're both into community led initiatives and activism, although I've done much more activism than she has. We also have a desire for self discovery through psychedelics.

I'd have happily gone to the commune with her, but I have children with my ex-wife over here, and I can't not be in their lives. I could have visited and stayed with her monthly though. We even explored communal living in our future in the UK, and perhaps setting something up ourselves.

The issue with the commune she's at right now is that they want to build up their permanent membership numbers, and they really want my ex-partner to stay. She freely admitted this and told me about the pressure they exert on her. I was a barrier to her staying, and she again admitted that their advice regarding our relationship favoured her staying with them, rather than me. She was with them 24//7, and we spoke once a day or so.

The thing which made her decide to stay permanently is the day before she was due to fly back, she trusted them to give her an unspecified dose of a particularly strong psychedelic (along with other substances) and guide her. It seems it was a really large dose, and this led to her having a break through experience which changed everything. It's at this point she started to bond further with the commune and consciously distance herself from me. She decided that she wants to stay there and meditate, taking such doses every 2-3 months. Prior to this experience, she was telling me how excited she was to see me, couldn't wait to be back etc.

After it, she said she realised the pain of our arguments was futile, and the emotional disruption it caused, allowed her to start breaking away from me emotionally. I went NC when she told me she was actively not engaging, and distancing herself from me emotionally to make the separation easier for her (she said she'd cried for 2 weeks at the prospect of us ending, and the 2 weeks since the experience had given her relative peace from such raw emotion). I'd see my messages unread and she was online - I literally could facilitate her killing our connection with my blessing. I'm guessing NC won't help in the long run, but it's less painful for me right now i.e. it gives me a bit of control over the situation.

I've no doubt, once she's through with this new way of life of psychedelics, meditation and celibacy, she'd at least attempt contact due to the bond we did have before.

Gosh, it is hard, isnt it? If you would have been willimg to go with her but couldn't due to life commitments then it does add an extra element of sadness - about what could have been with her. I mean, it really changes things that you WOULD have been willing to go. And the way you have described the dosage of psychadelics sounds a little worrying if she was essentially given more than she agreed to witbout her consent. It does make it more cult-like (Charles Manson used to do this and it's one of the suggestions about how he managed to gain such control over the others, so that is a bit worrying, although I don't think that occasional experimenting with psychadelics every few months for spiritual reasons is a bad thing in itself. Could you join her for a short period - a trip? It might remind her of your connection and what she stands to lose?

Yeah, the psychedelic dosage is worrying. But she says she fully trusts them, and they will do what is best for her and her progress. She’s convinced she learnt some form of universal truth, and this is just the beginning of her journey. I know how vulnerable someone is in that state, so it could easily be used as a method to convince her she needs to stay there. As I mentioned above, there was a profound change in her response and attitude after this experience. Just 4 weeks ago she was telling me how disenchanted she was with the commune, that they’ve been going for 10 years now and are still no closer to any of their goals. Now she’s acting as if they have all the answers. I mentioned a few times about going to see her there, but she didn’t engage, and now I’ve gone NC - which I think I need to see through for at least a few months for good or bad.

She also herself agreed she had selfish tendencies, but she wanted to work on them - this is what was so interesting. She literally told me to call her out on them whenever they arose, because a lot of the time she wasn't aware herself.

You're doing the perfect 'calling her out on them' by going NC and staying NC