I'm NC with my dad but a relative has said he's physically unable to apologise do you believe that can be true ?

[islockdownoveryet]

To cut a long story short I'm NC with my dad for almost 2 years now.
After many years of toxic behaviour from my dad I had enough .
My dad sent me emails that were quite clearly unhinged saying nasty things about my dh my in-laws none of which are true .
It broke my heart and that was final nail and as far as I'm concerned we will never speak again .
He actually doesn't think he's in the wrong will never ever apologise which I honestly don't get but I've come to terms with it's his loss .
I spoke to a relative over Christmas (my aunt my dads sister ) and she said he simply doesn't know how to nor can apologise implying it's not his fault .
I didn't believe it nor want to get into this with her but what's she suggesting is I forgive him as he can't help it .
I can't believe anyone can't see and admit when they are cruel and then apologise.
Has anyone else have toxic relatives and do they think if that's how they are it should be put up with, or do you think everyone has control over their emotions and the ability to realise and admit you are wrong that's what makes us human right?

Has anyone else have toxic relatives and do they think if that's how they are it should be put up with, or do you think everyone has control over their emotions and the ability to realise and admit you are wrong that's what makes us human right?

My husband had narcissistic personality disorder, as did his mother and his sister. He would never apologise because nothing was EVER his fault. If he bumped into someone he would have found something else to say but it would never be sorry.

Your aunt is probably partly right, your father doesn't see that he did anything wrong so he doesn't feel he should apologise - it's not that he physically can't do it, more like psychologically. People with NPD don't think like the rest of us, they may look like normal people and can behave like normal people when it suits them, but inside they genuinely think they are without fault.

You say your father turns things round to be your fault when he has behaved badly - classic. These people are SO easily offended, they are incredibly fragile in reality that's why they react so badly to being called up on anything or even to be asked to wait a few minutes while you finished cooking.

What are your aunt's reasons for trying to get you to forgive him? Was it she who brought the subject up? I'd be very careful because that too might well cause another hissy fit from him because he doesn't see he's done anything wrong so he's not in need of being forgiven.

If you want to stay NC with your father then you should.

@ravenmum

Was your aunt brought up by someone who taught her that? Does your dad act like his and her dad used to?

Her mum was very much like my dad . It's funny though neither my dad nor my aunt say anything bad about her . My gran was horrible to my dad at times possibly a reason why he's like how he is .

So sorry you find yourself in this situation. I know first hand how difficult it is.

I’ve been NC with my dad for over 20 years now. In that time I’ve heard so much nonsense from my family, who believe I should forgive him simply because he’s my dad..There’s nothing more important to them than keeping up the pretence that we’re one big happy family 😒

It sounds to me like your aunt feels she somehow needs to fix this situation. She knows your dad is unreasonable and that she won’t get anywhere by talking to him. That’s why she’s turning to you with some nonsense about how he’s incapable of apologising. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard that particular excuse from my relatives, so you’re not the only one!

My response is always the same: if he thinks he’s done nothing wrong, then what would be the point of getting back into contact? What would stop him from doing the same thing again? An apology is meaningless if people don’t change. And people generally don’t change if they believe that what they’re doing is totally normal and reasonable 🤷🏻‍♀️ You just don’t need that kind of crap in your life!

Definitely @ReggaePerrin very easily offended I can say something the wrong way and he will take offence, but my god he's been incredibly rude to me and my family over the years for no reason and it's ignored and allowed apparently.

@islockdownoveryet

Definitely *@ReggaePerrin* very easily offended I can say something the wrong way and he will take offence, but my god he's been incredibly rude to me and my family over the years for no reason and it's ignored and allowed apparently.

That's because there is no winning with them. Any attempt at dealing with their behaviour will result in more toxicity.

It's funny though neither my dad nor my aunt say anything bad about her

My husband was the same with his mother. I don't know whether it's because he didn't want to admit she was awful or that he thought she was as justified as she did!

I'm sorry to those that experience similar it's awful but if you are like me you are ok with it and except the situation . Like you say @Crazzzycat happened so many times and won't change .
It's always been other family members who try and say forgive him he's sorry blah blah but wfh he's not sorry and he's not bothered. It hurts my mum and I'm sorry about that but she sees that it's not my doing and I was fed up of it happening time and time again . She may want to put with someone who has a split personality but I don't especially when I get the brunt of it and it makes you feel like shit .
I think it's that they go that's how he is and just shrug because they can't change him .
I just needed another opinion on it as I didn't think I was being unreasonable on dismissing that he can't be sorry he just doesn't want too , thanks for your comments.

Does it matter if your dad can apologise or not anyway?

Regardless of the reason he doesn’t apologise the effect of his behaviour is the same.

Stay no contact. Consider putting in boundaries with your aunt to as she shouldn’t be pressuring you to have contact.

What are your aunt's reasons for trying to get you to forgive him? Was it she who brought the subject up?*

Yeah it was her , I never bring the subject up I put it to bed iyswim .
Her saying something just made me think that's all .
She says she's told him to stop it etc perhaps she thought she'd tell me too . She likes to think she'll sort it .

If he can't mouth the words there's nothing stopping him writing a letter of apology is there?

He's just an unpleasant man and you should remain NC.... he sounds unhinged.

she says he is sorry but doesn't know how to say so

What you've got there is a flying monkey, but if she's so concerned, perhaps you could suggest she gives him some coaching
At least the frustration it'll cause her should keep her out of your hair ...

Sometimes you have to cut off the Flying Monkeys, too.

@islockdownoveryet you have just described my dad. Fortunately he died 20 years ago.
Flicking the switch on his temper. I could write a million page essay on the things he did through out my life.
Not speaking because I'm supposed to have done something wrong in his eyes.
The worse thing he did was I went in premature labour at the beginning of December instead of going to January.
Didn't speak to me for 12 months. Didn't see his DGC till he was 1. Then told me that I should apologise
for keeping DS away from him. (I didn't) From then on until his death I was NC.
Stay NC with your dad as he will never change and this will effect your family.

Oh I'm happy to be NC it's just a shame other family members can't seam to leave it .

My father, grandmother and my MIL never apologise. Their shitty behaviour is always either swept under the carpet or they will refuse to accept they have said/done anything wrong.
Label this behaviour as you wish but the bottom line is that people like this don’t change and are best avoided.

The explosive volatile outburst - I assume was in front of your young child - is vile and NSPCC deem it child abuse.

His malicious emails about your DH and IL is unforgivable - and he can’t apologise for that because he deeply means it and still holds those views - he took time to consider his views and compose his words. It would be a betrayal to your DH and IL to forgive him - he hasn’t even asked for forgiveness.

Your aunt is the issue here - it’s her own personal discomfort that she is trying to soothe - she doesn’t have your, your DC, DH or IL interests at heart at all.

Likely she has always been the broker and fixer for her own DM and DB - in reality an enabler and apologist for abusers - drop her.

I have a close relative like this (not as nasty mind you) and I doubt he has ever apologised in his life, ever. He walked away from jobs, got into fist fights etc.

In any crisis, his first instinct is to apportion blame. And it happens to a weird extent. For instance if a drink were spilled, where I would mop it up and not think about it again, he would blame someone or something, perhaps the shape of the glass. I think it’s a reflex to deflect any blame from him??

And I see something very similar in my asd ds. We say sorry in this house though, and I always challenge the blame thing. But it’s not a trait that he’s learned from me or dh, or even from this relative as they don’t spend much time together. So I can’t help but think that maybe there’s some sort of genetic aspect to it.

My relative is trying and difficult to run along with but not actively nasty or unkind. When we argue, I don’t waste any energy looking for an apology that will never come. It’s a case of cooling off and letting bygones be bygones.

So in short, I do think it can be an issue for some people. Maybe not a physical incapability but more of a psychic improbability. I think it’s a personal failing I can tolerate. But that doesn’t mean you can or should.

The more I ponder this the more convinced I am that he lacks the instincts and ability to repair relationships. We only have a relationship because of the accommodations I make.

It might be more helpful to ask yourself if you can forgive his behaviour? If it’s likely to be repeated? If you can live with a repeat of it? If you can live with a decision to stay nc. In other words, take the apology stipulation out of it and see where that leaves you. Because if you can’t forgive what he did, or feel you can’t expose yourself to his toxicity, then an apology won’t actually change that anyway iyswim.

She says she's told him to stop it etc perhaps she thought she'd tell me too . She likes to think she'll sort it

I'd be careful with this one too. I very much doubt she will have 'told' him anything. She knows what he's like, she'll not risk his wrath if she values their relationship.

Perhaps she thinks she'll earn brownie points if she sorts it whereas in reality she's just enabling his behaviour and putting your welfare lower than anything else.

You've already done the hard part going NC in the first place, don't let any other members of your family try and guilt you into doing something that will not be good for you just so they'll feel better

I do think some people lack the ability to ever look at things from.someone else's perspective. But that doesnt mean you have to accept the behaviour.

I have someone in my life like this. After a huge rgumentetc wedding talk for a lo g time and are trying to re establish contact. But to be honest, it's clear to me it will always be superficial and even if we keep it light I think theres a good chance there will be another blow up at some point and the relationship will be severed forever.

Whether he can apologise / acknowledge etc is irrelevant.

It’s more important for you to know that he is capable of behaving well thereafter.

It doesn’t sound like you trust him to behave appropriately with kindness and respect.

So any “reconciliation” would just entail you all adapting your behaviours by walking on eggshells waiting for the inevitable eruption....and it will come.

No way to live. I suspect because you are out of the picture and not the buffer your aunt and others are getting it more - so they need you back in place.