Arguing in front of the children

[IsABit2020]

After dinner tonight me and DH were bickering about something really unimportant. It was heated but not shouting or anything. We generally have a good relationship but are both very stressed etc at the moment (not that it's any excuse). DS (7) heard us arguing, shouted "Just stop it" and burst into tears. I now feel awful. I saw a lot of DV from my parents when I was younger and had social service involvement etc as a child /teen. I feel like I've now brought that kind of lifestyle to my children. I feel sick. DH is trying to say that while not great we are a million miles from that. Not a threshold at all for social service involvement (one og my big fears) and we have both apologised to DS. We won't be arguing in front of him again. So no lasting damage done. Who is right on this one? I don't know if my past is clouding my judgement or if DH is under reacting and not understanding how bad things were.

Everyone else is asleep and I can't for worrying/thinking about what happened. I hate that DS was so upset.

Sorry to hear this OP. Youre both right in a way. It's not nice to argue in front of kids, but I wouldn't classify 'bickering over something unimportant' as being anything remotely like DV unless you were both visibly agitated, aggressive, swearing or using physical violence against each other.
I would have a conversation with DS. Something must have triggered his outburst - maybe a friend's parents have recently split up, or he thinks that you no longer love each other? I would take the time to understand what made him so upset and would explain to him that although mum and dad were disagreeing about something you still love each other very much. Try to get some sleep and don't overthink this OP.

I don't think either of you are necessarily right or wrong. I think if you've said you won't do this again and you've apologised to your son, then you need to stick with that and treat this as a learning experience. Most people snap and get angry at some point in their lives, you just need to try and find some coping mechanisms to manage it so that it doesn't bubble up in front of your kids.

I don't think shouting is concurrent with a social services visit (unless you've both said some really awful things, would need more context). It's great that you're so sensitive to your son's feelings though, you should hold onto that and it shows that you really care about him. If you work towards reducing your emotional outbursts in front of him, you have nothing to feel guilty about in the future. x

I came from a DV household, I understand why you are upset, but bickering happens, you've both taken responsibility and apologised to DS, you've talked it out with eachother, I would maybe even offer DH an apology infront of DS and vice versa. It can potentially be turned into a good lesson, sometimes in life you will make mistakes but you can take responsibility for your words and actions, apologise and change your behaviour. Try to get some sleep. X

I never saw my parents argue
I had my first relationship, argued, assumed the relationship was a disaster and we should break up and then had to learn that disagreements were normal and also how to have them.

I don’t think arguing occasionally in front of kids is an issue, but it’s arguing civilly (no screaming, aggression, name calling etc) and then reaching a mature end to the argument
You’re modelling how to have a healthy relationship

If DC is upset maybe you could have a chat about how grownups sometimes disagree just like they may disagree or fallout with their friends
It doesn’t mean you don’t love each other or DC any less, and you’re both always trying to reach a compromise etc.

I think it is just I remember being the scared/upset child and now I have made my DS that child. We weren't shouting even but both had raised voices. It upset DS but we were disagreeing over something to do with the kids (awaiting Covid test and discussing whether to just keep them off regardless until after holidays). DS then felt like he was to blame for us falling out.

Social Services is just something I have a fear of I guess. My own parents were reported by neighbours and their involvement definitely didn't help. I am just irrationally (?) paranoid about them becoming involved in my own children's lives. I know things have changed and they are generally a source for good and not something I need to be fearful of though.

I don't have any experience of domestic violence so coming at it from a different angle, but I don't think it's wrong to argue in front of children... with the caveat of course that's it's not 24/7 and not abusive. It demonstrates what a real relationship is like, that there will be fall-outs but you make up and it's fine, just like they fall out with friends in school and make it up.

I know it will sound glib because of our different life experiences, but I think your oh is right. I can appreciate how crappy it makes you feel though. Sorry.

I come from a family where there was constant screaming, yelling and sulking.

My husband's family is the opposite, they never air their emotions at all. If I so much as grump at him in the mornings (as in "ugh why would you wake me up, let me sleeeeep"), he thinks we're getting a divorce.

Somewhere in between is good. Children need to see honest yet respectful disagreement. As long as you aren't swearing and yelling, and as long as they see apologies, there's nothing wrong with the odd argument.

I can see where you're coming from because I hated hearing my parents fight, but that was every day for years and years. One heated discussion over breakfast is not going to end up with social services at your door.

Too much the other way isn't great either. My husband's family are great but it's a little spooky never knowing what anyone is actually thinking. Are they angry? Not angry? Do they agree with me? Disagree? I can NEVER tell.

I have friends who grew up in shouty households with parents who actually managed to resolve arguments in front of their kids - these friends can actually resolve arguments, some are shouty but most aren’t.

I grew up in a shouty DV household and I associate shouting with a beating, so I get super defensive and have to walk away in an argument. It means we can only really resolve arguments when I’ve calmed down. I don’t shout before I get to the walk away point but I do argue so DS, who is 12 months old, has learned how to argue back when told no. It’s embarrassing but both the nursery and health visitor thinks it’s a positive sign of his emotional development so don’t worry.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with seeing your parents occasionally disagree or bicker. As PP said, it shows that people sometimes fall out in relationships but they make up again, in fact I think it's more important for them to see the process of you apologising to each other and moving on.

Obviously constant arguing, shouting, tension etc... Is absolutely no good and I have experienced that when my parents were divorcing. But that is very different to the odd bicker here and there which we all do.

We've done it before, we don't shout in front of the kids or anything but I've certainly bickered a little with DH in front of them, and then they see us move on from it in a healthy way.

You definitely aren’t at the threshold for social services involvement. I think with what you’ve experienced you are more aware of how upsetting it is and it’s not a bad thing to be aware. I think showing children how to disagree and resolve that disagreement without shouting isn’t a bad thing but your DS is showing you that he doesn’t like your voices being raised.

Thanks all. DS is completely fine this morning. I still feel really shaken and tearful about letting him down which I know is more about me. DH called me an idiot last night which he has apologised for but I am going to speak to him again about never calling me names ever and that ongoing stress is no excuse. We don't really argue and even though it had only lasted a few minutes and wasn't in anyway aggressive or volatile I still feel weird about it.

I think it’s important that kids see their parents argue and disagree, fall out even, provided it’s the backed up with resolution, compromise and showing how a healthy relationship copes with issues.

Calling you an idiot is way out of line though. I can be a shouty mare at times but I've never called my husband names.

Yes he apologised to me the second he said it and has apologised again last night and this morning. But still I wasn't at all happy with it.

I think arguing in front of children is OK if it's as you describe, a disagreement and not shouting and swearing. Please try and stop worrying, your son is fine.
I grew up in a house where my mum screamed at my dad on a regular basis. I remember sitting upstairs with my siblings listening and terrified, we'd talk about who we would live with if they divorced. I'm very conflict adverse and a bit of a people pleaser as a result of my experience. If we disagree I usually take on my dad's role and try and go along with whatever he says to end the situation as quickly as possible. It's much less healthy than just having a bit of a row.

@Baileysoncereal

I never saw my parents argue I had my first relationship, argued, assumed the relationship was a disaster and we should break up and then had to learn that disagreements were normal and also how to have them.

I don’t think arguing occasionally in front of kids is an issue, but it’s arguing civilly (no screaming, aggression, name calling etc) and then reaching a mature end to the argument
You’re modelling how to have a healthy relationship

If DC is upset maybe you could have a chat about how grownups sometimes disagree just like they may disagree or fallout with their friends
It doesn’t mean you don’t love each other or DC any less, and you’re both always trying to reach a compromise etc.

This! I never saw arguments growing up either and my parents split when I was 13 and I have terrible fear of abandonment issues. Totally panic at any kind of disagreement. I think it's a good opportunity to model how to disagree and resolve it in a healthy way and show that a healthy loving relationship does involve this.

Few things. Some children are just very sensitive to these things as are some
Adults. As a child i would quiver at any
Kind of loud noise or raised voice. Her reaction doesn't necessarily mean anything abnormal happened.

Also, i think discussing what arguments mean and what they achieve might be useful. That they are often a mechanism for working something, such as a difference of opinion through and resolving it. And thats normal. People who never argue dont always agree they just sit on those feelings and that can be bad too. Arguments can allow people to show feelings and move forwards. It does not mean people hate each other and it is a temporary state albeit unpleasant at the time.

This week make sure you take time to over play kind gestures to make sure she feels settled. Hold hands, a hug, making hot drinks for one another helping out, cuddle on the sofa. She needs to see that fondness and security between you return so she feels secure and worries about things less in the future.

Sounds like normal family life and you are overthinking things. And i hate arguing!

Oh OP I can sympathise.

I grew up in a house with DV too and it definitely cloud your judgement.

I often feel bad about things that my DH doesn't bat an eyelid at.

PP's are right about it being a lesson in modelling positive conflict resolution. Couples disagree and this is normal. How you deal with the disagreement is the key.

Hugs to you and your son.

Sounds like this is a great opportunity for you both (v important) to learn how to disagree without being horrible to each other.

When your OH does or says something and you react angrily, can you STOP for a moment, do the old ten deep breaths, and think about
a) is it worth sweating about AT ALL
No? Then just... stop right there.
b) if it does need some action, does it have to be now? Can it wait a few minutes, hours, until tomorrow, when you've got over being pissed off and can amiably say iloveyoudear and if you can see your way to taking your muddy boots off when you come in OR taking on the weekly hoovering, that would be LOVELY thanksdarling
c) if it does have to be now, and even if it's really understandable you're angry - is being angry and aggressive going to help? 99.9% of the time it's better to focus on sorting out whatever mess has happened, biting your lip, and saying, "I'm feeling really frustrated RN so give me ten minutes".
In other words how you might act at work, where (it turns out) most people can control their behaviour even when colleagues have been complete airheads or dipshits!

Where I'm coming from is I grew up in families where everyone bickered bickered bickered, the underlying attitude wasn't really that the 'D'H loved and cherished their wife or vice versa. A really poor example which affected my personal and professional relationships. It was only when I'd had some better role models that I realized - I could control my behaviour. I could be civil even when I had very strong feelings. I might snap but then I could put the brakes on and wind the atmosphere back to a more productive conversation. And it is sooooo worth learning how to do that. It feels like you have control over your own life and stress goes down quite a bit!

The only issue was going back to family visits. I remember - AGED 50 FFS! - asking my parents (politely!) TWICE IN TEN MINUTES if they could be pleasant to each other and not bicker for the duration of the restaurant meal.... Oh dear god. Don't let your DS end up being the middle-aged me still asking the parents to quit it for five minutes ;)

... I mean, you love each other, right?....

Good advice @iwanttoridemybicycleiwant. I have never had to thought about arguing before because in 11 years together this is the first time we've spoken to each other that way. If it looks like it's pattern and not just a one off I will revisit your post.