The fine line between being an arsehole or an abuser

[LargeProsecco]

I'm going through a separation (not married) which is becoming increasingly nasty. We have 2 primary age DC.

We are still living under the same roof 15m later as ex refuses to sell
(which he has no legal right to do).

He has done manipulative & controlling things (eg turning up to pick the kids up from school on "my" days). I saw emails in the recycling where he told his solicitor I was "behaving erratically" (which is not true at all).

He does a good job of gaslighting & downright lies. He spends most of his time in his bedroom & does not engage much with the DC - but wants to take over as primary carer as he knows I can't afford to stay nearby once the house is gone (he can).

I kept a diary of his behaviours- swearing at DC on occasion, shouting at them regularly, spending little time with them.

Part of me just wants to pack up the car & drive away with the DC.

I have the option of a job about an hour away, which would give me & the DC a better standard of living (ie roof over our head, good schools etc).

But he does not want me to go with DC.

I guess what I'm asking is "how abusive does he need to be for me to go with the DC"?

I'm concerned that the police would return them to his care & I would lose custody.

He is abusive.

I would speak with woman's aid as the first step and perhaps National domestic abuse helpline.

He is abusive.

And he can’t dictate how and where you live your life.

You need to take control and get legal advice. But if I was You, I would go for that job and put some distance between you. Living with him sounds like a nightmare

@TonMoulin he absolutely can stop her and the children moving away. He can talk her to court about this issue.

Take not talk.

The refusing to sell sounds like it could tick the coercive control box. Have you taken legal steps to force sale?

Thanks @RandomMess - I've called the helpline & she has agreed it is controlling behaviour & abuse. I have known this for years.

I cried during the call (I'm 48 FFS) .

She had suggested I call women's aid, which I will do tomorrow (no answer today), so they can advise me on the best thing to do.

I got a lawyers letter from him threatening that he will launch legal proceedings against me this week, unless I agree not to take kids there.

He has said he won't agree a legal settlement with the house unless I agree not to go with kids.

I can force the sale; but it will cost ££) & take a long time.

I tried to move out earlier this year before lockdown & he prevented me by refusing to sell.

He was on redundancy consultation & I was worried about the cost of paying the mortgage on the house & rent if he lost his job plus potentially having to force the sale.

I think lying, especially repeated lies are a good place to start. It's malicious and it's active sabotage.

I would be keeping a diary of not only what he's doing, but what you're doing too. It's annoying, but I think if he is going to lie about you, you need to bolster yourself against that. Make sure that if he brings out an accusation and you're put on the spot, you'll be able to know what you did that day and not end up ummm-ing and ahh-ing. It's natural that people forget the mundane details of their lives, but it's not going to make you look good if he's good at lying confidently and convincing people.

@EarthSight - thanks for that; I have been keeping the diary since February/March - on most days.

It records how much time he spends with him, the shouting & swearing & kids reactions to that.

I spoke to the school in March about him swearing at me in front of them & shutting himself away in his room.

I also started a WhatsApp chat about the kids which I back up weekly to email - showing he doesn't usually reply to messages & announcing at the last minute that he is going to pick them up etc (on my days) Me asking him to interact with them more, etc.

Does it matter whether you can label him an abuser or an arsehole?

Neither makes his behaviour acceptable or tolerable.

I'm not sure if you have understood my last message. Your diary seems to focus on him and his actions, but I would advise you keep a diary of your own actions and your interactions with the kids too.

I really wouldn't focus on painting him as an abuser and I wouldn't invest heavily in that concept. If you paint him in that way and he has a strong defense, it will make you look very bad if your side is not able to prove it or make a strong enough case for it. I'm not sure how these things work, but it's better to keep accurate account of your family life together and hand it to the lawyers to take care of. Your actions as well as his, because you will most likely be under scrutiny too, especially if he intends to lie.

What matters is that your children are in a loving, safe environment with nurturing, responsible parents that want the best for them no matter how their marriage is going. I'm not sure why he wants to be the primary carer is he's usually spending time in his room. To punish you?

@EarthSight - understood - yes, my diary contains all the things I am doing for them (play dates, homework, comforting when he shouts at them, contacting school etc)

And the PP who said it's intolerable- yes, I've needed to take sleeping tablets & was off sick from work the other week when it was all a bit much. I am very resilient but just can't go on like this.

The lawyers letter was the last straw. His last message to me said that he will make no legal settlement until I agree not to go with kids.

I feel so bloody trapped. Hopefully women's aid will help.

And yes, to your last question - he punishes me if I "challenge" him in any way.

As an example, when he was out of work & I was working full-time with the kids in childcare, I told him I needed his support by pulling his weight at home, as I have supported him in the past when he was off long-term sick.

He deliberately did nothing, for almost 6 months. Barely cooked a meal, did shopping or kept place clean. It was this horrible passive-aggressive defiance & I felt so bewildered, then realised I was being controlled through inaction.

If he doesn't want to discuss something, that's the end of it. Stonewalling.

I had a long phone call with women's aid this morning (more tears) & they were very helpful.

They have advised I give a statement to the police - so I have an appointment for that tonight.

Then I have to phone women's aid again tomorrow, and my solicitor.

I just feel exhausted, drained & teary.

Supposed to be working but I can't focus or concentrate.

Hi @LargeProsecco

Well done for taking these steps. It IT exhausting but I suspect not as exhausting as living like this. Keep us posted, we are rooting for you.

There is a life on the other side of this for you, I promise.

If you want to move the children's school (which sounds likely if the move is an hour away), you both need to attend mediation (unless the mediation service accepts there is domestic abuse/coercive control). As he has PR (I presume he's on the birth certificate) he could apply to the court for a prohibitive steps order to prevent moving their school but the court would want to see mediation attempts first (IME). I moved 1 1/2 hrs away. The previous school was not good for one of my children so a decision to change schools for his well being was imminent, I had no support in the area with certain 'friends' migrating to him and his sob stories and I had the chance of a fabulous job and cheaper housing costs. BUT I knew the state of play so I informed my ex of my plans, I then contacted the mediation service, paid my share of the appointment mad he was sent and invitation to attend and to pay his share. He did neither. I didn't tell my ex about prohibitive steps orders, that was for him to find out and he would have been informed if this if he had bothered to turn up. So I got my paperwork signed by the mediator and off we went. Best move ever. Son is thriving in the new school, I'm earning nearly a 1/3 more than I was and about to buy our next home. Doesn't stop ex telling everyone I stole his children from him. He forgets to mention he was too lazy, apathetic and tight to actually do anything about it.
Go down the right routes, gather and keep your evidence, get professional advice and support and don't lose faith in being able to start a better life. These men tend to make a lot of noise but don't convert it into much action!

@laceyandcagney - we are in Scotland so don't need to do mediation- although that has been tried already.

We do have an equivalent up here of prohibitive steps order & that is what his solicitor is suggesting unless I agree to stay.

I have tried to rent 3 places locally and not managed. If I come off the title deeds then I am homeless.

[quote LargeProsecco]@laceyandcagney - we are in Scotland so don't need to do mediation- although that has been tried already.

We do have an equivalent up here of prohibitive steps order & that is what his solicitor is suggesting unless I agree to stay.

I have tried to rent 3 places locally and not managed. If I come off the title deeds then I am homeless.[/quote]
Ah right hadn't realised that. Good luck getting sorted. At least you have a solicitor on the case as it can feel overwhelming negotiating it all on your own

Just to update; I spoke with the police last night & their view was that he was a "prick" but that they did not feel there was criminal activity that he could be charged with.

Because he is not restricting me seeing friends, denying access to money etc they do not believe it is coercive control.

They did log things though, as I believe he may turn nasty & make false allegations. They also made the children "vulnerable people" (think this could be a Scottish thing).

They also clarified what would happen if I Ieft with the children (safety check, by phoning 101) which I could do once I have somewhere new.

I think I need to do this over the next few days, as I believe he will take legal action against me to stop me going (if he hasn't started the process already).

Good you have had police advice and you have a plan. FC you can move on to a better future without this eejit dragging you down

Glad to hear you've gotten some help and have a plan.
Yes, go as soon as you can and try not to let him know you're leaving.
You'll feel so much better once you're out of there and away from him.

Op, are the children in school? You cannot move them without his consent and if you did so knowing he is objecting then a court may take a very dim view.

You will have to apply for an order to move, given he won't consent and is threatening a PSO.
Do you have legal advice? A court would look at what is in the children's interests, which is access to both patents, schooling, disruption, depending on their ages, what their wishes and feelings are. They would not fully assess why you had to move,other than you has reasonable plans for a home or school. Your ex would be keen to show that the children will suffer more if they move due to lack of contact with him and disruption to schooling.

It might be best to post in legal. If both parents disagree about a move and it involves schools and distance then court is the only way to resolve it. If you are primary carer and the children are old enough then a court is likely to agree with your move but there is no guarantee.

@Techway - is that advice from Scottish law? The rules are different here.

Yes, I have had extensive legal advice & also taken advice from the police & women's aid.