How Much Do I Tell DD

[scotgal2017]

Apologies if this is not in the right place, I wasn't sure where it should go!

Brief background, STBXH left me and 2 DCs 3 years ago. We had been together 20 years (married 17). OW came out of the woodwork 5 months later but she is welcome to him as he had been abusive the entire time we were together. Dc's had unfortunately witnessed arguments (mainly him shouting and swearing at me and telling me I was wrong etc etc) and him throwing things at me/at walls, a bit of pushing me and being intimidating etc.

I have had some counselling over phone (due to the current world situation). DD who turned 17 in the summer has started attending counselling in the last few months, going once a week (DS14 has just been diagnosed with autism this year but he told OT he did not want counselling, also just as background DS had not seen his dad for a year and only started recently seeing him again as wanted to give him "a second chance" as he stopped seeing his dad as , in his words, he is a jerk).

I don't ask DD17 about her counselling as that is obviously her business - however she left me a note last week saying she wanted to know all about what happened between me and her dad as part of her therapy "process". I asked her directly what she wanted to know and she said everything but I did not have to talk about it with her if I didn't want to.
I said to her if I told her about me and her dad's relationship it may change her view of him but I was prepared to talk about it if she felt that is what she wanted/needed to do.

We haven't had a chat yet but how far would you go? As an idea of what this guy was like he had done the following throughout the years:

• smashed our wedding rings with a hammer
• banged my head repeatedly off of a concrete floor until I nearly passed out
• had me by the throat in a lift
• pinned me down in a park, shouting in my face
• hit me in the stomach when I was pregnant with DD
• all the other usual things abusive people do such as criticizing, gaslighting, verbal/emotional/psychological abuse etc

Obviously with info like that he won't look like the good guy/Disney Dad that he portrays anymore and he sure has hell wouldn't be happy that I told her anything like above.....I am no contact with him and have been for just over a year now.

I'm not one of these people who automatically feel that I should not tell her bad stuff about her dad and sugarcoat it - part of her knows he's an asshole from previous discussions we have had about him regarding what she heard/saw through the years - but this is obviously a level up from what she already knows, especially finding out your dad hit your mum in the stomach when she was pregnant with you...... so how much do I tell her? Would you tell a young adult most of what had gone on in an abusive relationship if they say they want to know and be able to heal? I've never told her anything before that she hasn't already witnessed/remembers herself and I am aware that if I tell her the examples above, I can't take it back again!!

Do you think knowing any of that will help or improve her - already fragile, if she’s receiving support and counselling - mental health and well-being? Or would you just be telling her because you want her to think badly of her dad because you don’t feel he deserves them to think well of him?

Just because a teenager says they want to be told everything, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do so. By all means tell her that there were lots of fights and arguments which were sometimes physical and refer to specific occasions if you know she probably remembers hearing or seeing them. Tell her you suspected he had been cheating. But don’t rattle out a whole heap of horrific details that a teenager whose emotional state is already not great and who really doesn’t have the capacity or maturity to process.

I would not give all those details eg. for your dd to know that he hit you in the stomach whilst you are pregnant with her would be devastating. It could really be harmful. I would tread very carefully indeed.

She's still very young and at delicate stage. My mum gradually told me more and more about my dad over the years as I probed her, but saved the worst of it until I was in my 30's and had my own DC (well I probably still don't know the worst of it - who knows?)

I don't think she'd have the maturity levels to handle such devastating information. TBH I don't think I'd ever tell her about the punch in your stomach when expecting her. That's just too much for a child of any age to hear and absolutely no good will come of telling her that.

I would give a general overview without going into specifics - only go into detail about the incidents she witnessed. So he was physically violent from x-stage in the relationship, the violence progressed over the years etc. etc.

Sorry you had to go through all that horror OP. I'm glad you got away from the vile waste of space

I'd keep it to general terms, verbal often, sometimes physically abusive. Up to her then if she wants details, perhaps better not to go full in with it. She can ask, but she does not have an automatic right to know, unless she wants things clarifying from specific incidents she remembers. You could start by asking her what she remembers of it, there's nothing to be gained from expanding on stuff she's never known of.

If I was your daughter I wouldn’t want to know he hit your head off concrete or that he punched you in the stomach whilst pregnant.

Probably wouldn’t want to know too much of the rest really.

Maybe just the shouting thorong things at walls has lighting ect

Follow her lead, she clearly is aware that some stuff happened otherwise she wouldn’t ask. Keep to simple factual answers and only go on if she asks

She is processing her own (right) instincts reinforcing those whilst protecting her as much as you can from the bits she doesn’t need to know

Good luck

as others, say verbal and physical abuse. If it was emotional/financial too and controlling, I would say that, and maybe use some examples of the coercive so she is better able to identify it.

But I would never never never tell her that he hit you in the stomach when you were pregnant. There is no way that any good can come of that.

I'm sorry actually I really disagree. She has asked for the truth, to downplay what happened is a form of lying. If she remembers more than she is letting on, she is possibly trying to make sense of scattershots of memories. By concealing of covering up, you are actually invalidating her memories and gaslighting on your ex's behalf.

I would possibly, (with your DDs blessing) have a discussion with her counsellor. It seems highly likely this has come out of the counselling, the way your DD has made the request feels very much bourne out of a therapeutic approach. I'd even consider having the discussion with the counsellor present.

Also, instead of asking what she wants to know (Which possibly she doesn't really know because she does know!), id be asking what she is hoping to achieve by asking the question. I'd explain you're worried telling her everything might be a bit too shocking a bad for her mental health, and by understanding her reasons better you can fufill her needs better.

Kids do sometimes need to know just how bad a situation was. Not graphic detail, but yes it was bad

Why cover for him? He really did do those terrible things. To you, in real life, repeatedly.

It is very upsetting, and shocking.
But why should you airbrush it or sweep the severity of it away. If she really does want the truth (and maybe give her some time to think about that, weeks / months / years) - I'd give it.

Start small, so less detail and expand as the conversation goes on. Try and gauge how she is handling each piece of information as you go. So start with abuse happened, then it was physical & emotional. Then, perhaps, a couple of lower level examples, things she may have seen but not understood. Try and keep in mind that you are aiming to help her process, it's easy to start talking and not stop.

Try to depersonalse to some extent, for example he punched whilst you were pregnant rather than whilst you were pregnant with her. It wasn't about her, it was about you. At that time "she" didn't exist as the person she is today, it wasn't personal to her.

Remember you can come back to it. You can say "that's enough for today, we'll come back to it in the future" if you feel uncomfortable or you think she has heard enough - she may not recognise that point herself.

Good luck op, these conversations are tough.

I’d tell her. Slowly. but she’s asked and the not knowing is torturing her. Honestly I think people need to know awful things in order to process them and move past them. If you only tell her some and then more comes out, then she’ll be hurt all over again. So I think I’d tell her the lot.

I would say to her that you're happy to answer any direct questions she has, and that she can ask anything she wants to. Then I would start off with very general statements, like he was verbally & physically abusive, but then let her ask for further detail iyswim.

Personally, I'd want to protect her from him, so I'd be fine with her distancing herself from him. I'd also tell her that you'd rather she didn't discuss it with him because you don't want to have to deal with his temper again

She's 17 she's not stupid & she deserves as much of the truth as she asks for. It's very damaging to minimise his behaviour.

Keep it vague at first. My mum told me about something traumatic when I was 17. I have never forgotten all the tiny details she shared and wish I hadn't been told. I could never tell her that though. I really internalised everything she said.

She's asking for info but there's no need to have all the information at once. I'd give her some info, let her go to therapy to process and let her know she can always ask for more but that it's important to take it at a pace that's right for her. Processing slowly is much better than overwhelming all at once.

I’m not sure your DD has a right to all that personal info. It would be different if she remembered and wanted you to clarify the picture.
Your relationship between your husband or ex is your business!

Your DD’s relationship between her dad is between them.

It’s not good to know everything.

She obviously didn’t see the violence from how you have put it OP. I would absolutely play it down.

One might ask why didn’t you leave and so on... it will be endless.

@pinkdragons

Why cover for him? He really did do those terrible things. To you, in real life, repeatedly.

It is very upsetting, and shocking.
But why should you airbrush it or sweep the severity of it away. If she really does want the truth (and maybe give her some time to think about that, weeks / months / years) - I'd give it.

She’s not covering for him ultimately my mother once said something to be about my father (it was true). However I will never live down what she said she should of spoke up at the time or carried on and said nothing at all.

After all it won’t be DD’s father that will be upset it will be OP’s DD.

I have a dd the same age. Her Dad left me for OW. There were some awful incidents but I have only told her vaguely. She knows /remembers/has an inkling of these incidents but there's no need for her to know how bad iyswim. She has a distant /polite relationship with her Dad.

If your dd asked him directly is there a chance that he'd flip out in her presence, make up some lies about you or attack you when she's dropped off after contact? You don't want her in a middle of a he said/she said situation and if she's fragile she won't want to be yelled at or see her Dad yell at you.

I would answer questions like how many years weren't you getting along? When did you find out about OW? But the violent incidents could give her nightmares.

@Hunnihun2

I’m not sure your DD has a right to all that personal info. It would be different if she remembered and wanted you to clarify the picture. Your relationship between your husband or ex is your business!

Your DD’s relationship between her dad is between them.

It’s not good to know everything.

She obviously didn’t see the violence from how you have put it OP. I would absolutely play it down.

One might ask why didn’t you leave and so on... it will be endless.

I agree with this.

She doesn't really know what she's asking at this point and once you tell her everything, you can't untell her if it's too much. I was not emotionally mature enough at 17 to handle something like that, even thought I would have thought at the time I was.

It's not the same thing, I know, but my marriage to the father of my children ended when I discovered his affair.

I decided not to tell our kids the real reason we were separating for a few reasons but mostly because I didn't want their relationship with their dad any more strained than it was about to become and I didn't think they would be able to understand properly.

I did say to their dad though that if they ask me when they are older what happened then I won't lie to them and he has to be prepared for that. An affair is quite different to what you describe though and I would tread carefully.

In a very large part her therapy will be about her feelings growing up. Most of that will be anger at you because you stayed in that situation and didn't protect her, and some ambivalent anger at him for being a shit father.

It won't be anger on your behalf because he was abusive to you, it really won't be.

So telling her that he was even worse than she experienced will probably just increase her feelings of worthlessness, because she will feel all the more that she came last and wasn't worth protecting.

What she will need help in processing is why you stayed. This is actually really important, because if you can help her understand why, and understand that you regret doing so for her sake, then she has a chance of not making the same mistakes.

The therapy will aim -

a/ to increase her sense of self-worth, identity and boundaries

b/ to allow her to understand she does not have to make the same mistakes because she can choose to not agree with, and in fact completely reject your choices/reasons and therefore she has the possibility of choosing differently in her own life.

If you really want to help her, then do not guilt her into agreeing that your choices were good ones or even the only possible ones at the time.

My initial reaction was as a PP said, have a chat with the therapist first and have "the talk" with the therapist there.
What you say would have been a LOT for me to deal with at her age but equally I'm not sure I would have let someone fob me off with generalities...

He sounds like such an arsehole OP, glad you’re well rid.

The problem with telling her any details like you have described, you are describing YOUR relationship with him. Her relationship with him could be something completely different. And telling her these details could be damaging and irreparable to their relationship. I think she probably must know you’ve dealt with a lot, as she’s witnessed things, but I’m not sure she needs to know every detail. Shes nearly an adult, but only just. And even as a young adult she may not be ready for something like this.

As hard as it is, I would keep quiet and let her make up her own mind on him. Sorry OP. I’m talking through experience, when my mum and dad separated I was told everything and felt obliged to stick with mum and I was no contact with my dad for nearly 10 years and we now have little to no contact, despite him never giving up trying. As a result I lost contact with all that side of my family - there has been a lot of implications.

I think you should be honest, but not going into the nitty-gritty of it. So you could say he was violent, but I would not go into the details of the attacks.

She will likely have been aware of some of it, so I think it's important that you are truthful, otherwise she may doubt her own recollections and perceptions. Which as someone who has been gaslighted, you'll know how damaging that is. She needs to be able to trust herself, and you.

I'm sorry actually I really disagree. She has asked for the truth, to downplay what happened is a form of lying. If she remembers more than she is letting on, she is possibly trying to make sense of scattershots of memories. By concealing of covering up, you are actually invalidating her memories and gaslighting on your ex's behalf.

^
This

@scotgal2017 I can totally understand your situation you may as well have been describing my own not so "DF". My mum gave me an edited version of his behaviour for years and naively thought I didn't remember much about the way he behaved. I didn't find out the full truth until I was well into my twenties when my mum realised that I needed to hear the truth unedited. It was hard hearing it and it shocked me that he was capable of behaving so spitefully but I was glad my mum did tell me the truth it didn't effect my view of him because I already knew he was a horrible person and had been NC with him for years before.

I really wouldn't advise downplaying his behaviour OP because that's basically saying to your daughter that it was acceptable and it isn't. I would advise you to be honest with her but don't give her all the information at once as that could be too much to handle and process all in one go.

I would suggest you talk to her and explain that whilst you're willing talk about it honestly with her she really needs to think about it before any conversation happens because it will really change how she sees her dad and not for the better. If she's still adamant that she wants to know then I'd start off by asking her if there is anything specific she want's to discuss with you with regard to her therapy or her own memories and go from there. If you don't feel comfortable discussing certain things be honest and tell her that. The other thing is OP if you don't have this conversation with her, she may well ask her dad about it and end up getting his twisted version of the truth about it being all your fault or you're exaggerating about what happened. As hard as it will be for her to hear the appalling things her dad has done she will at least respect the fact you were honest with her and didn't treat her like a silly kid and glossing over the worst parts however well intentioned it is. I hope this helps OP

Tbh she probably she probably heard and saw things that made her think he was abusive towards you but just wants confirmation that her memories are real.

Some of what happened is extremely brutal, I’m not sure to what extent you should go into detail frankly. I’m sure she doesn’t want the gory image of him bashing your head on concrete, surely that is attempted murder? Can a 17 year old, regardless of ongoing counselling, healthily process that and come to terms with it?

OP your DD has asked you to tell her the truth about your relationship with her Dad. If she's asked for the truth, then she should be told the truth, especially if it's to help her progress with counselling.
Living in that environment and seeing her Dad behave as he did, she and your DS probably were very aware as to what was happening around them, and that there was a lot that they were aware of this that didn't make sense. Counselling is helping her to clarify that.
What is the point of counselling if it doesn't involve the truth.
It would be very unfair to tell her something to spare her feelings, and her work her way through it, and then have it sprung on her in 5 or 10 years. The first thing she will ask is why you didn't tell her the truth.

I think you should talk to your DD and ask her what she is wanting to gain from the counselling process, and how she feels about possibly hear things from you, which may further impact on here relationship with her Dad.
You know your DD, take your cue from her. She will then be able to work through her feelings with her counsellor.
I hope you as a family heal from the past and have a more settled future.
All the best 🤗

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

I would say to her that you're happy to answer any direct questions she has, and that she can ask anything she wants to. Then I would start off with very general statements, like he was verbally & physically abusive, but then let her ask for further detail iyswim.

Personally, I'd want to protect her from him, so I'd be fine with her distancing herself from him. I'd also tell her that you'd rather she didn't discuss it with him because you don't want to have to deal with his temper again

She's 17 she's not stupid & she deserves as much of the truth as she asks for. It's very damaging to minimise his behaviour.

Witches is right. She is 17. She certainly has memories of his behavior. Tell the truth. The whole truth. Do not gloss it over or minimize the pain and danger you were in. Knowledge is power. You want her to be strong and confident. It could be a good thing if she distanced herself from him. The last thing you want is her thinking he is great and forming a relationship with some young man just like her dad!