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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you leave this man? - long

22 replies

Timetowakeup · 17/10/2007 13:56

Have been married for 5 years and have DC.

Have found out over the last year that DH has got us into £1000s worth of debt so much so that I will have to go bankrupt as have no possible way of paying any of it off.

He has been unfaithful to me. Recently found text messages on his phone. Told me he was too drunk to remember and that he was only chatting to someone in a friendly way but these text messages were obviously not friendly. Called the girl darling in them and asked if he could come round. He had previously told me of another episode of being unfaithful and I forgave him.

I do all housework and all childcare. When I asked him to give me a hand and just a couple of lie ins a month he told me that if I wanted to start sharing child care then I could get myself a job (am a SAHM - and he knows this is very important to me). He looked positively triumphant when he said it to me as well. He said it would be the answer to all our problems financially - I have not run up any debts by the way so would be working to pay off the debts that he has run up. Told me he was sick of carrying me on his back.

When there were concerns that our DS might be on the autism spectrum he told me that I was making a fuss because I enjoyed the drama and wanted DS to be have ASD so I could feel important.

He drinks a lot but not around the children. I don t allow alcohol around them. Whenever he goes out he stays out all night and when one of our DC was only two weeks old he disappeared for three days. Has done disappearing acts fairly regularly throughout our marriage. After one of these extended disappearances my DS told me that he didnt like me anymore because I was always shouting at his dad when he had been to work. This is where he tells DC he is when he is out for days at a time. He disappears less now but only I think because he has no money. Basically he comes and goes as he pleases.

He tells me he loves me and he is patient and kind with the children (when he is with them). He is younger than me and I suppose that I have often excused his behaviours because I thought he was just needing to grow up. I have asked him to leave but he has no where else to go and no money and my children love their father. At the moment i dont feel that I could cope with the upheaval of a break up and my kids would be devastated. He is quite verbally abusive in rows and it takes me days sometimes to get over some of the things he says. Nothing is sacred.

I don t have any support where I am living and often go for days with him being the only adult I speak to. I feel that the damage re debts etc has already been done now and by asking him to move out it would be like bolting the door after the horse has bolted. Any practical or inspirational advice would be gratefully received. I feel so drained and just don t know what to do next.

OP posts:
fortyplus · 17/10/2007 14:02

It sounds to me that you are both depressed.

If he has a good, loving relationship with your children, then there is a foundation that you can build on.

tbh - I was a SAHM for 12 years apart from odds and sods, and it's not till now when I have got a job again (18 hours) that I realise how much it affected my self esteem.

It would do you good to work for a few hours and be a person in your own right - not just a mummy.

The finances and the affairs are difficult - only know whether you can forgive the affairs. Probably the money is tied in with his self esteem, which won't be great if he sees himself as a failed husband.

Should you stay or should you go? Only you can decide. I would call Relate.

claricebeansmum · 17/10/2007 14:02

There is so much in your email.

Firstly - sympathy. This sounds like a truly awful position to be in on so many levels.

What has he been spending the money on? And why do you have to go bankrupt? Surely this is his problem?

You forgave him once for being unfaithful so has he equated that to a pass to do whatever he pleases?

Family life does not sounds so easy at the moment - coming and going, the rowing etc would you be wise to have a trial separation to see where that leaves you both? Many people don't realise what they have lost until it is gone - would that be a wake up call for him?

for you.

fortyplus · 17/10/2007 14:03

Sorry - that should be...only you know whether you can forgive the affairs

RosaTransylvania · 17/10/2007 14:04

Go to Citizen's Advice about your debts. It depends on how your joint finances are organised. If you leave him it may be possible to dissociate yourself from him financially.
As far as the question in your OP goes, would I leave him? Yes I would.
Should you leave him? Thats a completely different question. There are two issues here:
How much is he prepared to take responsibility for his behaviour and to change it, including facing up to sorting out his finances?
How much damage has he already done to your trust and are you prepared to try to mend the relationship?
His attitude at the moment stinks, but that attitude is unlikely to change unless you put pressure on him to do so.
You need to decide what you are prepared to accept first of all and then look at whether you are likely to get it or not. But either way some advice about your financial situation is your first priority.

LoveMyGirls · 17/10/2007 14:10

Good advice from everyone. Personally I would leave him, there's only so much one person can take.

cestlavie · 17/10/2007 17:17

God, how awful for you. He sounds at best like he's wholly irresponsible and pretty bloody thoughtless and at worst, a complete prick.

On a practical level, how about taking matters into your own hands? Try and figure out a plan for the next three months which would allow you to leave him if that's what you end up doing.

Make a list of people and organisations to speak to like the Citizens Advice Bureau, Community Legal Services and the National Debt Line for starters. Find out for sure what your status is in relation to the debt, your house, your children and how, if necessary, you'd go about divorce and custody proceedings. If you have no support around you, think also about where else you could go where you would have friends and family. Speak to them and think where you could live and how you might support yourself and the children if you moved there.

At the same time, see if you can make your relationship work, if only as you say for the sake of the kids. See if he's willing to talk through your concerns, listen to them and act on them. Give him every chance you can. If he refuses, see if he's willing to go to Relate. Again, give him every chance you can to make it work.

At the end of the three months, or maybe the end of the year, you'll hopefully be in a much better position to figure out what to do. Maybe, hopefully, you'll have figured things out between you. On the other hand, if you can't and if you decide to leave him, at least you'll know your options far better and be able to make a much better choice for you and the kids.

Good luck with it.

lilacclaire · 17/10/2007 18:29

Hi, asides the debts and lying about them, I would not stay due to the verbal, disappearing and being unfaithful.
It is your call though.
Does he want to make things work or is your home just a convenience for him?
With regards to your debts, I am "shudder" a debt collector, so any advice you want in that respect just ask.
You are not liable for anything that is not in your name btw, married or not.

WideWebWitch · 17/10/2007 18:33

God, poor you. Erm, in answer to your question yes, I would. For the following reasons (in no order):

Infidelity
Abuse (verbal abuse counts)
Laziness
Lack of support re children/ASD
Disappearing/inconsistency
lying/debts/deceit

Elizabetth · 17/10/2007 18:51

What I'd do? Leave him - an unfaithful man who treats his partner like a slave. No thanks. What is he giving to the marriage? Nothing as far as I can see.

It's up to you but I think most people would understand if that's what you chose to do.

bubblagirl · 17/10/2007 19:03

you need to make this decision your self and not be swayed by others thoughts as we are all different in our out look in life

me personally would have given no second chances after an affiar many couple sdo and it works i'm not strong enought o be able to get through that

money problems people make mistakes that can put them in bad money situation but can get through that too

if you genuinly feel he is cheating again and think he has a drink problem tell him you want some space if you do it all alone anyway its not going to affect anything

ask him to seek counciling with you see how he responds if he accepts the break and goes out drinking you know it wont work if he wants to seek counciling and makes every effort to win you back you know you stand a chance

if he seeks solice in another womans arms call it a day you sound so unhappy you cant change someone no matter how much you love them and there is always someone else out there that can give you the love that you need

good luck but follow your heart but listen to your mind also it makes more sence xx

pigletmaker · 17/10/2007 20:13

In all honesty I would try to tackle the problems head on before leaving.

  1. Debt
  2. Fidelity
  3. Respect

You need some time where you can talk these things through with each other without having a fight.

Personally I would be inclined to say ok, clean slate but one single return to the problems and you're off.

If he can stop drinking and take this seriously I think you could turn it around. It very much depends on how much he wants to change. People CAN change their behaviour, if not their instincts.

I think there sounds like some hope left in this relationship and I wish you well in making things work again.

Timetowakeup · 17/10/2007 20:16

Thanks for all advice.

The debts he ran up were a huge overdraft on a joint account, although I have my own account and never really monitored the joint one. I know I sound really silly but he did have a well paid job at the time and I thought everything was fine. Also many parking fines, which he did not pay - the car is in my name and I now have CCJ's for all of them. Have had baliffs at the house, who were unbelievably very sympathetic and gave me some advice on appealing against the CCJ's without taking any of my stuff. Also a credit card, that he told me to take out and he would pay. He ran up the debts but I suppose I should have taken a lot more notice. I trusted him though. In my defence I did try to ask questions sometimes and he would just get really nasty and accuse me of trying to control him and cut his balls off. It just wasnt worth it in the end. Fortunately the really massive one of over £20k was in his name only.

He can be an absolute horrible ars*hole but sometimes when I look at him I can see the real man too and a man who is as good to his kids and loves them as much as he does can t be all bad can he?

Someone advised trying to talk to him and giving him every chance to sort himself out but talks about anything serious always end up in a row with him being really vicious. He wants us to go bankrupt together. He says that we will have a chance if he can just get rid of all this debt because he feels that life is hopeless, while we have it. I resent the idea that I have to become bankrupt through no fault of my own. I am not that young either. It all feels so hopeless.

I know I should leave him. If it was me alone I would be off in a heartbeat but my kids love him and would be broken hearted. I can t just think of myself but how much crap is one person supposed to take. I suppose that is what I am asking, am I right to put my kids needs in front of my own? but I am so unhappy.

OP posts:
lemonstartree · 17/10/2007 21:05

he can still see his kids, and if he loves them as much as you say he will work hard to build and maintai a loving relationship with them.

I have recently ended my marriage as a result of abuse and drug abuse. Believe me ,life is a lot sweeter when you take the plunge.....

good luck

contentiouscat · 17/10/2007 21:13

Personally id have left him ages ago but then im quite a feisty chick

My main worry would be that my children learn how relationships work and how they should behave from MY life so

If you have boys do you want them to grow up like him and if they are girls do you want them to think it is normal to be treated like this.

Maybe he is not a great husband for you and you would in time be happier apart, obviously it would be a bumpy ride to get there but do you want to live the rest of your life like this?

Together or apart he will always be their Dad.

Fireflyfairy2 · 17/10/2007 21:13

If you are unhappy, then ultimately so will your children.

If it were me I would take cest la vie's advice. Save for a rainy day. Keep all your documents in order, have the kids' favourite clothes & toys ready incase you do decide to leave.

Whos name is the house/mortgage in?

bubblagirl · 17/10/2007 21:17

if you are so unhappy then you should leave yes your kids like him but they love you more a happy mum is a happy home and you should never stay with someone for the children as it will affect them to see you two arguing if you want to leave find the strenght to do it your children will be ok itm will affect them more to see you so unhappy as you will never fully give them what they need from you whilst your so unhappy

i know you feel bad but if you want to leave just do it your children will not hate you for doing it if you suddenly become happy when you wake up and chil;dren see more positive you they will be glad you finally done it

jasper · 17/10/2007 23:58

Yes I absolutely would leave him.

Timetowakeup · 18/10/2007 09:04

House is in both of our names - thank god, but I had to nag and nag about it before he would do it. Was his place before we met.

Feeling a bit more hopeful this morning. Have got all my letters and admin together and am going to spend the afternoon on the phone trying to set up some payment plans with my creditors. He has been trying to be a bit more pleasant over the past couple of days but I am going to get things in order, get some money saved and look again at things in a couple of months. Feel like that will give me some breathing space. Things could be worse I suppose. If I had not become aware of this then we could have ended up losing the house.

I am ok if i can do practical stuff and have some control. It is the verbal stuff from him that kills me. I tend to just block it out because if I think about it too much then I think I would just collapse and have a nervous break down. His Dad is the same - even worse to be honest and at least DH has improved somewhat over the years, thats what keeps me going. I do think he has it in him to be a good man maybe though just not with me.

OP posts:
JintyMcGinty · 18/10/2007 16:07

do not go bankrupt for him. He ran up those debts, so let him face them. I can't understand why he wants you to go bankrupt with him - practically, it makes more sense for you to keep your head above water so you could get a mortgage in the future for both of you. If you declare yourself bankrupt or offer to be subject to an Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA), that will tie your hands. You do not want a bad credit rating if there is still any way to avoid it with the CCJ's outstanding. I would appeal the CCJ's, if you can and try to clear your name.

Contact the CAB and see if they can offer debt advice. You can get your name off the joint account, if you both sign a letter saying it is to be his account in sole name going forward.

lucyellensmum · 18/10/2007 17:20

Jinty has made some really good points here.

Look, i know you dont want to hear this, but this man is NOT a good father. If her were he would have respected his childrens mother more and spend more time with his children. Im sorry but that needed saying. I think i have seen some of your other posts re lack of support over DS.

I do admire the way you are standing by this man and able to sort through things. And i do appreciate how awful debt is (we might lose our house!) and how it can blight an otherwise strong relationship as my DP and i are going through a really rough time due to money. BUT never has he been unfaithful, of that i am sure. He is wonderful about me being a SAHM, partly because i think it is the best thing for MY dd ( i emphasise the MY dd thing because im not against mums working, i just dont think it will work for us) i also dont work because i suffer from depression. My working could turn things around, i can earn more money than DP, but its only another couple of years and then i can work and DD will be at school.

I think relate or something might be what your DP needs to shake him up, make him realise that he is going to lose you if he continues this way, if you keep picking up the peices and making excuses for him, he is going to continue in the same vein. You need to make a stand for both of your happiness, as i am sure he will be happier about himself if he can be a better father and husband.

FrightOwl · 18/10/2007 18:05

I know you dont want to get a job, but would you absolutely not consider it? I understand what you say, you would be working to help clear debts he has run up but im also assuming he has spent a fair amount of income on his family too. If you leave him, wont you have to get a job anyway?

you also say that sometimes for days he can be the only adult you speak to. it seems that you have been totally reliant on him, my personal thoughts are that you need to take back some sort of control, not just for the sake of the debts but for your own self esteem. you also need to weigh up what is best for your child/children. what is going to do more damage to their feelings in the long run? your constant arguing with dh, having the bailiffs at the door etc or a break-up? only you know. do you think he will change, people dont, in my experience but i know some mners will disagree with that.

leaving someone is hard. no doubt about it, harder so when kids are involved. my ex partner was much like this, verbally and mentally abusive, cheated on me (the night after i gave birth to our son no less while i was still in hospital with ds in scbu), got into a LOT of debt and i couldn't stop him no matter what i did....i knew about it but he just went out and spent and spent. i never let him have anything in my name (apart from joint bank account and our mortgage) but it still had an impact on me as when i left i ended up in a council house with a couple of hundred pounds to make it a home. i got my money back from the sale of the house years later but it was little help at the time.

however i would rather do that a hundred times over than stay with someone like my ex. no-one has ever lived with me since and i can honestly say that im happier in general. i dont own my house, but i own everything in it, responsibility is totally mine (frightening at times but i prefer it that way). i dont have a great deal of money but i know that noone is spending it for me.

JintyMcGinty · 18/10/2007 20:56

timetowakeup, have you asked your DH what he spent the money on? Debts of £20k+ would make me wonder where it all went - does he have anything to show for the money? Was it on the family or himself?

I would honestly sit your DH down and tell him that the best thing is not for you to go bankrupt for him (although he doesn't sound the listening type). Your name should be clear to sort out the family, get another mortgage if everything is done to appeal the CCJ's and correct your credit rating, if he is too far gone towards bankruptcy. Can't recommend speaking to the CAB enough. You need to think of you and your DCs

Me, i would leave him. But it strikes me that if you move out/ask him to leave, you will be left to deal with everything without information. He is sticking his head in the sand about the extent of his debts and running them up in your name. He unreasonably (and pointlessly) expects you to bail him out - because you are a SAHM and can't pay, instead he is asking you to take the blame for him. Classic "ostrich" behaviour! He's not facing up to his problems. He is either running away from them by doing a disappearing act or he wants you to sort them out for him by going bankrupt or he is drinking to forget them.

My dad was exactly the same - repeated infidelity, debts, head in the sand, drinking to forget, ignored bills and lived beyond his means running up debts in my mum's name, so I know what is involved in sorting them out.

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