Falling back in love with my DH after suspected abuse

[MagicalCreatures]

My husband and I haven't got along properly for many years. He has, in a way, been verbally abusing me. Though I'm certain he doesn't see it as that. His father has many of the same narcissistic characteristics as him. They are both very hot headed and shout alot. They both sulk and can be quite manipulative. So basically it's learnt behaviour.
This is why I feel sorry for my husband. I know my husband loves me a hell of alot. But he has some very strange personality traits, some of which actaully frustrate me and make me feel like I'm going insane.

The problem is, every woman's help line I speak too or councilling I have, go straight to the point of him abusing me and it's all very black and white. Surely there are circumstances where it's not as simple as that. I feel stupid saying he is abusing me, cos it doesnt really feel like that. There have been times that I know it has been but it's so hard to not see it as 'well he was having a particularly bad day'.

But a few weeks ago, I did tell my husband I wasn't happy and I wanted to leave. We have a young son and he very much made me feel like I couldn't leave him cos he didn't want me taking our son from him. He begged me to stay and that he was having councilling as he admitted he didn't want to be like his dad. I stayed.
Problem is, I'm struggling so much with knowing what the right thing to do is. We are not in a sexual relationship anymore as I told him I wasn't attracted to him due to his behaviour. He desperately wants to change and has been trying. He does alot more to help me with our son and around the house. He has slipped up a few times though and I've had to remind him of how I wanted some space from him.

I've become extremely depressed as his depression has finally pulled me to a point where it's affecting my own mental health. He is trying but I just can't seem to look past what's happened and how he's treated me. And I'm worried that if it isn't abuse then I should be really trying to make it work with him and if I don't then it's my fault the marriage didn't work and the guilt will eat me up forever. I'm so confused.

Is it possible to fall back in love with someone. Is it possible to forgive the things they've done and move on.
I'm so scared however that if I stay with him and he doesn't change, then I've potentially wasted more time with this man when I could have been trying to find happiness elsewhere.
I'm so worried that what if I do actually love him but I'm holding back for these fears and I don't know how to open up and let him back in. Then it's my fault again.
I'm such a mess.

Learned behaviour my ass. He is a grown adult capable of making choices. He chose to treat you like shit.

Why the fuck would you want to let him back into your heart?

That aside his depression is pulling you under too. This isn't healthy op. Surely you must see this? Your heart is closed to him because the trauma he put you through has caused your body to cotton on that he is toxic to you. It is literally rebelling against him. Listen to it.

He is making you ill. Stop looking for a way to forgive him or keep taking this poison from him.

Get him out of your life.

And I'm.sorry op but it is that black and white. Even your own body is telling you this. Stop fighting against it, he is dragging you into the dark and you're still trying to see the good in him.

Any good in him is irrelevant anyway when it comes to protecting your own mental and physical health. You need to put you first. To love and care for yourself.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents and besides which what did you learn?.

He is "depressed" because he is abusive and besides which depression is not an excuse for him to have treated you in the ways he did. He has and is basically dragging you down with him to the point you are depressed too. Living with an abuser will do that to you. This is black and white; there are no shades of grey here. He is not trying at all; he is doing what he thinks will be enough to keep you there.

Love your own self for a change OP: it is clear that you do not. Your H does not love you and never did; narcissists have made the terrible choice not to love. You are not and have never been responsible for his choices and he chose to abuse you and continue what was done to him by his own abusive father.

You have a choice re this man, your son does not. Make better choices for your son and for you. You and your son would be far better off without your abuser in your day to day lives.

What is your definition of abuse then?. Abuse is not just physical solely in nature.

So basically it's learnt behaviour

I'm not a scientist but I have an interest in the latest advancements and research into certain topics. One the the things I read a while ago is that our idea of nurture trumping nature is a bit of wishful thinking and is being reviewing and studies by the scientific community. We actually retain a lot more characteristics and personality traits from our parents than we'd like to think, although they might present in very different combinations or they might skip generations. This includes the predisposition to depression and anxiety amongst other things. You might like to think that it's learnt behaviour (because if it is, it gives you a sense of control over the situation, makes you think it might be fixable or that he might be helpless in some ways)......but actually, a lot of it might be ingrained far more than you realise. That's why I believe abusive men often take after their abusive fathers. It's not just upbringing, it's because they have some of those personality traits ingrained themselves which are accentuated or intensified by how they are raised. No one want to think about that, especially if they've had children with an abusive partner but it's important to at least entertain the idea.

Your partner might be sorry, might be remorseful but that doesn't make the negativity go away, unfortunately. When it comes to abuse, you shouldn't get points for trying because at the end of the day, it's still happening. Manipulative people are even worse because they know exactly what they're doing.

Ask yourself - do you think he behaves that way to his boss? Why is it, do you think, he is able to behave himself well in front of some people, but not you? I'll tell you why.

It's called - respect.

Thankyou. I hear everything your all saying at it makes sense in my head and at times I pluck up enough courage and then it disappears and I need the reassurance all over again.
But the questions I can't answer about my own feelings are what's keeping me here.
I'm so frightened that he is going to change and is trying to be better but that I'm blind to it because I'm holding back. And that I'll give up on my marriage when if I'd just opened up, It could have worked. I don't want to break his heart and destroy his life. I can't live with the guilt. The fear that it's all in my head eats me up. That I've always seemed to self sabotage my life. What if I'm doing it again. He has definitely got better except for a few things which I've addressed with him but I'm certain that it's my own reluctantcy to forgive and forget and to open up to him that is what's stopping us from working

I know abuse is abuse but I don't believe he really knows he sounds the way he does. It's normal for him to speak in such a manner. He's not so sensitive to it after growing up with it.

You have to give yourself permission to put your needs first op.

What about your heart? Your health? Your basic human rights to kindness, respect and consideration.

He has roped you into this merry go round of only considering him...and how you need to change in order to please him or meet his needs.

Plenty of ppl come from abusive households with the determination to be nothing like their parents. He is not one of them unfortunately. Background really is not an excuse, even if it is partly the cause of who they have become.

You matter op. Your feelings are valid. And you deserve to be happy. Even if that makes him unhappy. The fact us op, ppl like him dont know how to be happy. Theres nothing you or anyone else can do about that.

Save yourself.

I know abuse is abuse but I don't believe he really knows he sounds the way he does. It's normal for him to speak in such a manner. He's not so sensitive to it after growing up with it.

But he does know. You said he claims to be attending counselling to change his behaviour. How could that be the case and it also be the case that he is unaware of his behaviour? They can't both be true, they're contradictory.

That I've always seemed to self sabotage my life.
Start here.
The stronger you are the better you can advocate for yourself in your own head.

You need to advocate for your son and yourself. Your son doesn't need to see his father's behaviour.

Your needs are as important as his. He can't put you first, so you have to.

Who else does he explode at? Bosses? Strangers? Or just you?

OP,

Years of abuse and bad treatment ruined you marriage, not you.

Your husband's awful treatment of you, ruined your marriage, not you.

It is not your responsibility to try and force yourself to love someone again, who treated you badly for years, just because they have decided to try and correct their behaviour ONLY after you have said you want to leave.

You are not responsible for your marriage alone.

He destroyed your marriage.

He chose the behaviour, he has to accept the consequences.

Focus entirely on what is best for you and your child.

God. Chose to have a better life.
It's easy to say as an outsider looking in, but you really should walk away, gather yourself up and start yourself a new life, away from this dysfunctional man.
A few months/years on an you will feel much better. Because you deserve better and you won't find a happy life with him.

Surely there are circumstances where it's not as simple as that

Are you saying it is ok to be abusive in certsin circumstances ? No, it isn't.

If you are so convinced this is "learned behaviour" what do you think is on the cards for your son ?

OP there is a contradiction here that you haven’t thought through.

You’re very keen to excuse his behaviour as being a result of upbringing (learnt from his father), and something that he can’t really actually change. Yet you’re exposing your own son to this.

So either you think there is a part of him that is actually choosing this behaviour, or you are comfortable with your child learning to be an abuser.

Do you want your son to grow up and be another generation of this?

Again - how does he behave at work? If he can manage not to be an asshole there, he can manage not to be an asshole to you too.

"That I've always seemed to self sabotage my life".

And who gave you the tools to do that?. What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Why are his needs here apparantly more important than yours?.

Do not sabotage your life and that of your son's by remaining with your H out of some misguided sense of guilt. Why are you feeling guilty, who installed that button?.

You sound a lot like me and my stbxh. Wish I, like you, had wised up after one child and not three.

I do think there is a blanket message on this board that all abusers do this on purpose that is actually really unhelpful for many women in abusive relationships.

My then-dh truly did not know his emotional control of our family was abusive. He grew up in a culture and a family where his behaviour would barely deviate from the norm. When he worked it out for himself, after our split, he was genuinely devastated. I stayed longer than I should have because sites like this one or the freedom programme always made it sound like for him to be an abuser it would need to be intentional.

However it actually doesn't matter that much if it's intended or not, the outcome is the same. The only difference is whether it's mild enough and he is committed enough to change that. If it's an abusive household, this means he has to.move out to do it, for the safety of you and your son.

So he actually talks to most people close to him in the same that way he speaks to me. Obviously with me it's worse because it's usually behind closed doors. But he really has a tendancy to rub people up the wrong way. For him, he's always right and has a sense that he is putting people in their place. He tells me his side of the story and usually I sit their rolling my eyes cos he thinks it makes him sound smart and managerial but infact he just sounds like a knob and I wonder what people actually think of him.
However he is seemingly charming when it comes to certain other types of people. Especially older people and people he doesn't see very often.

He is the bitchiest person I know. He slags off people one minute, then fights their corner the next. It's one of his traits that I really can't stand.

But I suppose my main issue here is that, I think he is really trying. And what I'm asking is, if he really is capable of change, then is it wrong that I can't find it in myself to fall in love with him again.
This is why I'm scared im going to blame myself for not being able to love him again and make it work when he has finally become the person I always hoped he would be. Too little too late springs to mind but it doesn't seem right.
I suppose alot of if is because I married him knowing these things about him so I blame myself for committing to him and then wanting to run away. Like I promised him I'd love him forever and then had a baby with him and then dumped him to the curb when I don't believe he is a really awful person and doesn't deserve to have his heart broken.

My own upbringing has alot to blame for my feelings. My mum and dad are still happily married thought they've had their issues at times, they've always worked through it. They are quite old fashioned and think a marriage is for life. They have also never been very good at emotional support. They like a 'drama free' life and it's as if all I've ever done is being the opposite to the dinner table. I was a troubled teenager but nothing so awful and drastic that I didn't grow out of it but I forever hold guilt for the way I behaved at times.
Wow I'm screwed up....

@MagicalCreatures
Its not wrong that you cant fall back in love with him.
Once love is gone its hard to get back and thats no ones fault.

I also agree with the 'too little, too late' comment- you've had years of his behaviour and all of a sudden he has 'changed' but these few months of good do not offset the years of bad.

Who has told you that you self sabotage your life?
That kibd of comment comes from other people generally,not many people think it themselves unless they've had therapy.

It doesnt matter that your parents think marriage is for life, you have to live your own life the best you can.

Your parents are a different generation and probably have a very nice life so in their mind if you have a niggle or argument every so often you should stick it out, domestic abuse has probably never entered thrir head because no parent would want their daughter to suffer domestic abuse just because she got married.

I think you are doing your son a disservice here unfortunately, what is he learning about how it's acceptable to treat his future partners?

Unlike many on here I don't see it as black and white, I believe that people can recognise abusive traits/behaviours in themselves and want to change. I wouldn't be a therapist if I didn't believe it was possible for people to change. But I also know it's very difficult and many don't want to put the work in.

And I think it's even harder to change in a long term relationship with established dynamics. Easier if they're starting again from scratch with someone new.

I was looking for some posts relevant to something in my life. Coming across this though, I have now realised mumsnet is a very dangerous place to be looking. After all, this is unqualified opinions from many different people and I personally would even feel worried about some of these responses. One thing we have learnt, it's very dangerous to take a message such as written here and then everyone to back that comment. Is this saying your not going through issues yourself? We don't know anyone on here personally but I would be careful of any of this advice. Are you sure your OK too? Are you sure you were perfect in the relationship? Not getting at anyone but this is whole heartily one sided. You said he changed? If he changed is he not fighting for you? does he live with zero stress from yourself? What's his opinion on his marriage, is he working all the time and stressed supporting a family? I would sit with my partner and get to exactly the bottom end of it. Life is very very short, divorce, blame, one sided messages about this man is this, this man is that. That's all so so dangerous for others to then comment. Young family, issues, your heart is saying you actually see its a trait. Everyone can change. My opinion, you said on those words he changed immediately, that's a man fighting, wish my partner would fight too if I highlighted importance. Sacred, break his heart? Picking these words out I also think looking at ourselves, are we really highlighting just what he did, or are we also saying we have issues we're not addressing? Two sides, remember decisions live with us forever, if he changed immediately, I see he will change forever now, which means either it wasn't just him or also how will you handle the next person potentially getting the best person he could be. He sounds like he is fighting/was fighting, that's someone who loves you whole heartidly no it's not always wise to stay, but honetsly if your heart doesn't love him, your choice, just remember you say too late, marriage, kids, starting again, can your trust new men out there, what if its too late the other way and you find he's moved on, he's much better, finds love, starts a family and any issues we may be hiding we don't address, can you live with this also. Just be careful and don't jump to all the unqualified responses especially aggressive ones. Keep your mind clear. As I say my personal opinion, wow, he heard you, he changed. Maybe that shows something? Remember also, if what is said isn't always true, and we know it's not always true about someone it's means things are being hidden and we aren't addressing our own issues. Be careful

@Mumsanddadsinfo
Thanks for your comment but I do think some of the things you have said are actually very dangerous for others going through a similar situation to me.
The only issues I had were starting to feel like I didn't exist anymore, that my opinions didn't matter and I spent months barely saying a word in my own home because I didn't see the point anymore. I was disappearing.

And like many emotionally abused women, I found myself doubting myself and my own mind because he'd continuously put that doubt into my head for a number of years. Constantly making me feel like i couldn't trust my own instincts. Gaslighting etc.

I did manage to leave him and thank god I did. I dread to think where I'd have ended up if i hadn't.
And most of it had only become apparent since I left.
He has really shown his true colours.

In this thread I actually played down alot of his behaviour. Because I was so scared and desperate to try and make it work. But it was never going too.

Things you have said are strangely things he told me.
How would I feel if he met someone else? Cos he was going too and he was going to be happy and I was going to be miserable forever and I was going to regret this etc etc. Long voicemails of his creepy voice telling me this over and over. This was even still a few months after I left him.

He tries to say that he's changed now, he's a better man, he's at peace and he has even told me he's too good for friends that were in his life before. He's better than them apparently. But he's not. He is so incredibly selfish. He is now dangerously playing the doting dad when he couldn't have given too shits before, so much so that my son would scream going to him up until he was over 2 years old. Because he hadn't bonded with him cos he was too selfish.

He has continued to get worse. And quite honestly, he is pure evil and he scares the crap out of me. The things I thought I knew about him all came to light for definite after I left and in the recent months.

He has told almost our entire town lies about me, regardless of how it affects our child when these horrible things might get back to him one day.
He had absolutely zero respect for me as his wife and he continues to have zero respect for me as even his child's mother.

My advice for anyone going through this, is if in doubt, trust your instincts and get the hell out.