Is this normal or should I be on the Stately Homes thread?

[whatsbinhappnin]

I'm wondering if this is normal. Apologies this will be very long...

I found myself not able to sleep last night as I was anxious about having to go 'home' to see my parents at Christmas. I'm actually hoping that it's not allowed.

In my opinion I had a bit of a tough time growing up - only child, parents arguing constantly with me left alone to cry, mother never able to apologise or comfort me with this, there were threats to crash the car whilst we were alone in it, screaming and shouting in public or in front of my friends and refusing to calm down. My mother had a nervous breakdown a few years ago and finally sought counselling for her own childhood issues (abandoned by her father). I remember being 7 years old and knowing that she needed help, and even told her she should speak to someone (ie. not me, her child). I was always her emotional crutch, and her scapegoat when she was angry along with my father.

My parents always kept me fed, ferried me to and from various activities, and definitely loved me. But I was constantly stepping on eggshells as the tiniest thing would set my mother off.

My mother's anger issues have definitely improved, but her attitude towards my father has not. She has told me that they've got along much better since I moved out a few years ago (makes me feel like I was the issue but I was always well behaved, terrified of any confrontations or arguments).

However when I have been back to see my parents (only a few times over the last few years) the same things have happened but with less blazing rows. There's still passive aggressive comments to my father (who just ignores them) and if she doesn't get a reaction she'll keep going, for example-

M: what's the matter, why are you pulling that face?
F: (genuine) oh nothing, I was just doing/thinking about xyz
M: no you're pulling a face, what's the matter with you?
F: really nothing, I didn't realise my face was doing anything
M: yes you are, why are you looking so miserable?
F: (getting exasperated) I'm fine! Leave it.
M: see, I told you there was something wrong with you!
F: (now angry) yes, just leave me alone and get off my case! I am fine!
M: why are you being like this? You are clearly not fine, you're annoyed!
Etc etc and then of course my father gets blamed for it
M: (sarcastically) oh well this is nice, what a lovely meal together eh, thanks for ruining it

Then there's me, the middle man as always, trying to intervene. Obviously my father has done nothing wrong, but I'm never allowed to take his side or I have to incur the wrath as well.

I end up just wanting to leave and spend the minimum amount of time there. I'm not a child anymore but the feelings it gives me are horrible and make me feel so sorry for the little girl that had to endure that for so so long.

So I don't miss my parents, although of course I do love them. Is it normal not to miss your family? I have friends who will go and see their families any chance they get and speak about how much they miss them. I don't think I've ever missed my parents. It's just not worth the stress.

But I feel guilty as I know so many people don't have 2 parents, or much worse childhoods than mine. My mother always told me I was ungrateful when I got upset about my parents arguing as I should be grateful to have 2 loving parents.

Sorry for the brain dump. I'm just trying to work out if this is 'normal'.

Does it matter if it's 'normal' OP? What is normal?

What matters is how you feel. You feel like shit and you know that it's the idea of seeing your parents that is the reason why. Therefore you need to assess whether it's worth seeing them.

We don't have to love our parents and we don't have to see them. What other people do and feel is irrelevant.

It's not abnormal. Families vary wildly. Not everyone gets on. You don't have to love your parents, and you don't have to even like them. Don't see them if you don't want to. Easy to say, can feel less easy in practise. But I think once you start consciously thinking 'I'm an adult now and I don't have to put up with or deal with this shit' it gets easier.

Oh I could have written your post OP, except I had a younger sister and my mum was handy with her fists! She still screams at my dad often, even if you're on the phone with them, I have now taken to saying that she can call me back when she's finished shouting and putting the phone down! I have realised as I've got much older is that my dad is not blameless and it's an absolute git and very selfish and my mum can never just ignore something.

I completely get what you say about loving your parents but not missing them. This year had in one way been utterly brilliant for me ad I only speak to my parents in short phone calls, haven't had to see them or stay with them. As a result i have been much more relaxed about life..

I don't care if it's not every ones normal, it is mine and I can live with that. My parents are reaping what they sowed and now I have a choice I will not let them make me unhappy any more.

Sounds like my parents OP and its draining.

My dad is dead now and mum in a care home and so I don't have to deal with it anymore.

They were loving parents and treated us all well, but their constant arguing was just draining. Dad was also a difficult man and a miserable bugger most of the time. He also had a tendency to be rather controlling, which was tedious.

I never enjoyed going home to see them and did it as infrequently as possible. In fact one of the reason for moving around 1,000 miles away from home was for this reason!

My parents weren't abusive at all, but I just didn't enjoy being with them, which I think is quite normal. I could never understand why other people seemed to like their parents so much!

I also have 2 sisters who feel the same and so that has been very useful over the years. I imagine its much more difficult to deal with as an only child!

No, its not normal at all. What you're describing here is a dysfunctional family unit where you've played The Hero (one of many recognised roles within dysfunctional families).

Its not you, its your parents. Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. You may well have received material things but on an emotional level both parents absolutely did not give you what you needed. Now you are left blundering about with FOG (fear obligation and guilt) along perhaps with a low self of self worth and self esteem as a result of their lack of emotional nuturing.

You may love your parents (children too love their parents anyway no matter how abusive or otherwise crap they are) but its also ok, more than ok, not to like them very much. Both of them come across poorly and too engrossed in their own lives to at all bother about yours (your mother being abandoned by her father is a reason, not an excuse nor justification for her behaviour towards you). She actually got some help but clearly not enough and she went onto make you her scapegoat for all her inherent ills. Your mother has not listened to you perhaps ever and she is not going to change now. Nor is your dad for that matter either. He has failed to protect you from the excesses of her behaviour.

I would post on the Stately Homes thread too as it could help you no end.

You are now an adult with full agency and free will. You do not have to visit your parents at Christmas and you only need to give your own self permission as well not to go there.

I would also consider finding a therapist (BACP have a detailed website) to work with. You need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

My mother always told me I was ungrateful when I got upset about my parents arguing as I should be grateful to have 2 loving parents.
If they really were loving (?!) then you could be pleased about that, if you want, while still pissed off about whatever else you like. She doesn't get to decide what you're pissed off about.

When you say "normal", do you mean "common" (probably, in some form or another) or "healthy" (no)? Or do you mean that you should just put up with it and not complain? That's a harder question, as complaining to them is usually pretty much pointless. Or "something I should get therapy for"? If so, anything that really bothers you is worth getting therapy for.

Why do you feel you should visit them at Christmas?

Well it's not ideal really is it?
But is it "normal" - well, it's quite common, hence the SH thread.

Do you think, "They say they love me, and in their weird way maybe they do, as much as they can, but if they want to see me, why do they spend all of my visits ...

• actively trying to wind me up
• making little passive-aggressive remarks
• creating an unpleasant atmosphere by quarrelling or being mean about/to other people...

which naturally makes a visit something to be avoided
?"

What helped me was reading about childhood trauma and how it affects people (google the wonderfully named researcher Bessel van der Kolk) and finding out about my parents' childhood. Also techniques for handling toddlers, difficult people, stressful situations (Steve Peters and any number of childrearing books).

Changing other people - pretty hard. Changing how you see them & deal with them - do-able.

Quite a few of the parents on the SH thread have such uniformly horrid behaviour you can see why NC is recommended a lot. I do wonder if there's a need for a dedicated LC / "Stately Cottages" thread for where they're really not brilliant but neither are they completely utterly awful.

My parents are similar OP, although not together any more. I'd highly recommend therapy - it's really helping me. Also worth reading Dr Jonice Webb's work on parental
emotional neglect.

I suppose I feel the need to visit them because they really dont have anyone else. I wouldn't want them to be alone and upset if I wasn't there. Although they have talked for numerous years about not 'doing' Christmas and going away somewhere instead. Maybe I'll encourage that for non covid years...

My father is in no way a nasty man. He always treated me well but it's impossible for anyone to connect with him emotionally. You can never tell how he's feeling, he'll hide everything. He very rarely comforted me after arguments, and did nothing to protect me from my mother.

@YorkshireParentalPerson completely relate to phone conversations! Had the same the other day and suggested she apologise to him after. Which obviously didn't go down well!

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you, I had heard of golden child and scapegoat but not the hero. I looked it up and it describes me down to a tee. So much so that reading about it made me cry. 100% I had to parent my mother, from dissolving tantrums to emotional support. I remember when she found out I had self harmed (years afterwards) she cried and cried and of course I had to comfort her as usual......

Thanks @User74575762, I will definitely have a look at those. And I agree a Stately Cottages would be a great idea!

Could you cut down Christmas to 3 hours or so?

My mother also bullies her husband in front of other people, calling upon you to agree with her how annoying he is. I'll usually either disagree in a friendly manner, change the subject or just not react at all. I've tried other methods in the past - calling her out etc. - but it just makes it worse. But I live abroad: haven't seen her since this time last year. (A lot of expats have "difficult" parents; the ones who don't are more likely to want to go back to their native country again after a while.)

I agree with the other poster who mentioned childhood trauma. I had therapy for a totally different issue, but my relationship with my mother came up anyway. We discussed why she might be the way she is - and why her parents were the way they were. That's something that's stuck with me years later and made me feel less resentful towards her in general (stressful though it might be face to face).