Finding a compromise on career/family

[bonmamann]

Two partners (A and B) both have big careers in which they have been working 20+ years. They also have two children, primary school age.

Both find life exhausting and there's not enough time in the day. Always tired, no evenings spent together etc. As much as can be outsourced has been outsourced (cleaner etc) but it's still a stretch.

Partner A would like to shift down several gears, work less and/or in a less pressurised job. It's affordable for both partners to do this and Partner A would be happy for one or both partners to make this gear change. Time with the children/family is key.

Partner B would like to preserve the status quo, has more ambitious financial goals, eg nicer house in due course. Also feels the relationship is partly based on these high achieving career paths and mutual respect. They think that jobs that are genuinely less pressurised and shorter hours are hard to find and they would just end up being paid less for similar hours.

What's the answer here? Does Partner A get to insist on a down shift? Or is that a breach of an implicit agreement made at the start of the marriage when both partners were like minded and ambitious?

I think that partner b has essentially said, thought not in so many words, that they will not respect a partner how downshifts. So while partner a can insist on the change and make the decision unilaterally, it will be at their own peril and could end the marriage.

If partner b thinks it their right to control partner a and all future choices then yes

Both of you have summarised the dilemma in two sentences between the posts.

Partner A would make themselves v vulnerable by changing jobs without mutual agreement. Partner B risks Partner A's growing resentment at living a life that doesn't suit them.

Someone has to change their minds for this to work I guess..

I hate to say it, but this sounds like a marriage on the rocks to me. Certainly in the long run. A relationship “based on high achieving career paths” is one thing when it’s two of you, but I suspect is a different kettle of fish when there are children in the picture (if only because there are others whose needs have to be considered).

Seems like partners A and B should have thought about this before they had kids. I think B would be right to be annoyed at A not contributing financially so their lifestyle isn't as good.

But would Partner B have anything if the marriage broke down - doesn’t Partner B realise this?

We do as partner A suggests. Both in high pressured, high salaried roles with young DC. We both work part time to accommodate work life balance and accept a lower standard of living.

This was discussed and agreed pre-DC. Neither of us could be married to partner B, just not compatible with our world view.

Sorry OP, I think you'll struggle with this one. Partner B very much on different wavelength

Sounds like B would rather see their partner exhausted and unhappy so they can have nice things. That doesn’t sound like the basis of a happy relationship.

I’m with partner A, and have in fact recently reduced my hours (although it has taken 2 years after initially requesting it for long and boring reasons) because burning out and compromising my mental health wouldn’t be good for me or my family. As long as such action was not detrimental to our finances affecting the roof over our heads or food in our bellies, I would not have been impressed with my partner prioritising material goals.

Do A and B contribute equally to household and child things? Or does one do more? E.g. it’s all well and good a wanting to down shift a bit but that depends if they’re doing more or less at home

It's a good question re equal housework. Partner A probably does more of the children's stuff because that is what they want to do. Partner B does their fair share around the house.

Aside from this issue the marriage is good and I think both are keen to work this through and hope this can be resolved somehow but it's hard to see how without some serious compromises.

I thought someone might say they should have discussed this before the DC came along. Vague discussions may have taken place probably along the lines of some part time working might be needed/appropriate. But those discussions would have been about 10 years ago and even if they had been better, more specific agreements, people are allowed to change their mind I guess.

I wonder if this is the sort of thing people seek counselling for? Would that help?

I think both are keen to work this through and hope this can be resolved somehow but it's hard to see how without some serious compromises.

It’s more than compromise though, isn’t it? It requires one party to have a change of mindset/values. And that’s much harder - if not impossible- to achieve....

Yes - if there's lots of goodwill and a desire to make things work, then counselling would be a really good idea. A good counsellor should help both A and B understand the other's perspective and work towards a solution that works for both.

B needs to realise that they will not be moving into to a bigger and better house if A walks away from the marriage, but if they can't see that on their own, I think it would be better to work with a counsellor than if A were to start upping the ante by throwing out threats.

FWIW, my DH is, after many years discussing, looking to reduce his hours owing to work stress. It's a wee bit painful looking at the projected drop in income, but goodness - that's what marriage is. It's all about rolling with whatever gets thrown at you (richer, poorer, in sickness and in health etc.). I've never heard it described as being about 'honoring agreements you made before you tied the knot'!

It does sound a bit like partner b is shutting down the conversation a bit and trying to find obstacles without doing the research. Can’t you explore the alternative positions that partner a would be interested in before making a decision?

I think counselling would help you find a third middle path.
You both need to find common ground. I think from what you said that would be the fact that you are both exhausted, not enough time for each other and with children. So write out the above as a problem statement that you both agree is a problem, ie we need to carve out more time not working and you both need to do something about it. Then brainstorm solutions focussed on getting more time for yourself (don’t judge them yet). Just throw anything and everything you can think of out there.

So solution #1 is partner A works part time
See if partner B can propose a #2 solution, like eliminate commutes by petitioning to WFH some days
Then think of a #3 like no checking work emails after 6pm, if it’s important they’ll call
Maybe a #4 hire a live in housekeeper
#5 move to a better location for shorter commutes to work, school, etc
#6 order groceries online and have them delivered weekday evening so no more half a Saturday wasted going to Tesco.
And so on. Get creative.

List everything that buys you time, no matter how small or how drastic. Then together discuss each idea. See if you can agree on trying one or more of them. A combination of little time savers might add up. Or maybe a bigger time saver would be the best.

Thank you for the considered responses. I think both partners are hoping there is a middle path and this is not beyond solving, although as a pp has said, there is a values-based side to this that makes things trickier.

Funnily enough Partner B is fully WFH although on calls 9am-10pm (with some breaks obviously) whereas Partner A works away from home. Maybe that contributes to the way they are both feeling.

A FT housekeeper is something worth considering and may be a step towards a solution , although possibly difficult to implement in the current situation.

I think Partner B needs to consider that they may lose Partner A for good if they insist continuing as they are. Burnout and resentment are very real and will kill a marriage. They need to decide which they value more, a good marriage and the health and happiness of their spouse, or material wealth and their work values.

Presume you are both working full time+. Can partner A go to 4 days. They'd still be in a high achieving career with that all important status to Partner B, but it might just be enough to take the pressure off.

You're clearly partner A OP and your H is partner B.

This is why people who want a family cannot have it all. It's not possible and there has to be a balance which there isn't here.

I wouldn't have your H telling me that the kids had to suffer so you can al live in a nicer house. As ghe current situation is untenable and there won't end up being a nicer house as you will grow resentful or burn out.

It's tricky, as part of the reason B was attracted to A could have been their drive and career path.

I think resentment may come in for both of them whether A changes and reduces hours/takes it down a few gears or if they continue as it is.

I know a couple in a similar situation, except partner A has decided and gone ahead to take it down a few gears, leaving partner B with the full financial burden.

If partner B knew this would happen, there would not have been a marriage, as this is part of the reason they ended their last marriage. Their last spouse came home from work one day and announced a reduction to 3 days a week, without any discussion and it caused huge resentment.

Is there any way as a compromise that the reduction in hours can be done on a temporary basis and increase when the DC are older?

I was in a high pressured career job and became a SAHP after DC2.

It's clear something has to give in this situation. Our own agreement is that I can not work now, but when I go back to work I have to go back to FS and full time. In return DH is going full throttle on his career at the moment and plans to calm it a bit when I return to work. Long term plan is to both try to go part time when the kids go to uni /leave home and chill into retirement.

Ha I am kind of driving myself crazy with this Partner A and B thing as I keep forgetting which one I am.

Anyway Partner B's financial plan includes an early retirement which as we are in our mid to late forties is not massively far off I guess, at least not compared to the length of time we've now been going with this situation. But a gradual decrease in hours for A may be the compromise, combined with extra help at home.

A relationship “based on high achieving career paths” is one thing when it’s two of you, but I suspect is a different kettle of fish when there are children in the picture (if only because there are others whose needs have to be considered).

This ^

But also even without dc people change. Working long hours in high pressured, 'big career jobs' in your 20s is one thing, but, dc or no - people can run out of steam.
People can be effected by seeing a friend or relations's life cut short - heart attack, road traffic accident, cancer, stroke, multiple sclerosis etc etc. It brings your own mortality into question. People have the whole "Is this what life is really about" thoughts quite often in their 40s ~ sometimes resulting in 'mid life crisis', but sometimes a sensible, adjustment of lifestyle.
I am in my mid 50s now, and definitely not the same person I was when I met dh in my 20s, and he definitely isn't the young man I met when we met. People evolve. Saying "we have to do this forever because this is what we did when we met" is a nonsense.

I was very work driven in my 20s. Now I realise there is a lot more to life, and I am lucky enough to have lived to an age some family and friends never reached. I am going to enjoy that. Working 11 hour days as a 'routine' thing isn't 'living' in my book. It is something you 'do' when young, to move up the ladder a bit, not something that should be a lifestyle choice 20 years later.

However, as you, as a family can afford it, then each partner should be free to do what makes them happy.

If partner A is doing more childcare now I really recommend that for the next 6 months partner B pick up far more childcare. Particularly as they work from home.

At the end of 6 months you both see just how disruptive DC are to working parents.

But please be very careful that the parent who drops hours to take care of Dc doesnt end up losing their career path.

Can’t help with your query as my partner and I have always been on the same wave-length when it comes to work-life balance but just want to say that partner A sounds really well put together and rational and I thoroughly enjoyed reading such a reasoned and compassionate approach to the issue.