Ex MIL. How the **** do I deal with this

[thepeasantsrevolt]

I'm having issues with my ex MIL and I'd really appreciate some wisdom if anyone has any.

My DS 11 has had joint residency 50/50 since I split with his father when he was a baby. In hindsight agreeing to it was a huge mistake because he is a toxic narcissist (not just throwing the term around, he really is) and his mother well I don't know what she is but it's definitely toxic. I was 19 when we met, 21 when we split, and regretfully didn't know any better.

For clarity, DS father lives with his mother, DS grandmother.

She constantly undermines me, my parenting, everything. She thinks she is the parent. She has even said in front of DS that she thinks me and his dad are bad parents. She's said because I work that I care more about money than my children (I have another DC), she said numerous times she's 'uncomfortable' with my DD (14) coming home from school alone and being herself til I get home, and she doesn't like DS being in childcare. I'm WFH now anyway.

If DS gets in trouble she will sometimes tell him things like his parents are wrong and he is right. This causes behaviour issues.

She has taken DS to the GP before without even telling me or his father, because she believes that I am neglectful for not taking him to GP for a short lived eyelid twitch. She was recently tutting because she thinks she should be taken for an X ray because he twisted his ankle playing football a couple months ago, he was seen at the time and wasn't broken, and it's v v occasionally still sore, but not stopping him running or anything.

She's encouraged DS to lie to me.

She either goes all out shouting or just creates this toxic atmosphere and mumbles or makes comments to DS. My DD has even commented she feels uncomfortable if she (briefly) has to be around her. In DD words "intense" and "unpredictable" and "0-60". My DD refuses to go near ex MIL or ex, despite ex MIL giving her money if she sees her (unusual for a teen!)

The most recent and the one which really boils my blood and worries me is that she keeps trying to take DS along with her when she's breaking COVID rules. As in trying to take him to households where there are people from 4/5 households inside, when we are in a tier 3 area. I've told her not to do this but she doesn't care. I've also told DS to refuse to go, but DS says he has to do what his dad says if his dad says he is to go.

Her and Ex argue and don't have a good relationship but he is pretty absent as a parent despite being there in person and he doesn't like me, blood thicker than water etc. He won't enforce anything or agree with me on anything as a matter of his 'principle'.

I cannot stop him going there. I've been to solicitors in 2014 and also last year about this. Unless there are extreme 'visible' issues like hard drug use etc, I've been told there's no chance of forcing any change to the 50/50 order at DS age.

My (long winded) question is ..

How do I deal with this? How do I approach her?

It's getting increasingly hard to deal with. My family and friends say remain calm and try to reason with her, but what they don't understand is, there's no reasoning with her.

After another morning of her coming to pick up DS and shouting about his clothes, that he "can't go out like that", I'm at the end of my tether. He likes oversized and vintage clothes. He has plenty clean clothes, believe me. DS was telling her to be nice and stop interfering. I feel like I'm failing my son sending him with her, but I have no choice.

You do not approach her; there is no point whatsoever in dealing with someone as disordered of thinking as his grandmother is.

You absolutely need to keep your son away from his narcissistic grandmother; she is well on the way to try and further manipulate your son here against you as his mother. She wants to steal his heart and mind away from you; she is that dangerous. She is setting him up to be the golden child here with his sister being and remaining the scapegoat (that could well wreak their relationship too). Your children do not need a relationship with this woman under any circumstances and I would actively prevent him from going there at all now. His mental well being is far more important than she using her grandson to fulfill her own emotional void.

Why is this woman coming to your home rather than their actual father?.

@AttilaTheMeerkat You are so right in that she is setting DS up to be the golden child and filling her emotional void. DS father is her only child, no dad around, and she set him up as a golden child but it backfired cause they don't get on at all now, even though they live together still.

The thing is, I cannot protect DS, I cannot stop him going there because the 50/50 residency is court ordered. I've been to two solicitors, very good and recommended, and they've said that at DS age, and so long as he says he still wants to go there, there is next to zero chance of getting such a long standing order changed.

So what do I do?

Is the 50/50 court ordered? Does Ds even want to go there seeing it isn't his father with him when he's at her house?
At 11 surely he gets a say I know I did.
What would haopen if he said I'm not coming today were doing x and I want to be here. I'll be there tomorrow or something similar.
Let her be the one who goes bat shit and acts unreasonably.

Sorry cross posted abput court. Can it go back to court and be adjusted with Ds talking to the solicitor about what he wants.

Honestly you need to grey rock your way through this. At the same time making sure your son finds his own voice because it sounds to me like the grandmother is trying to manipulate him. Once he starts pushing back a bit her response will either be compliant with what your DS is asking or she will be insistent which will start to push him away.

It's not long until he can make his own choices and have more of a legal voice. So you need to do everything you can to be a supportive parent. I assume you have talks with him, ask questions and counter or challenge her behaviour in a way that will help him see what she is doing isn't normal.

I was also with a narc his mother was and is quite similar but I have full custody thankfully.

My DD is now 11 and I often talk with her about specific behaviours from people and why they aren't reasonable or a normal response.

The fact that your DD doesn't like being around the grandmother should speak volumes to your DS without you having to.

If she is shouting at your house, close the door and ask her to wait outside until she can calm down. Pursue changing the court order, in the meantime think about how you respond to her. I know how heartbreaking it is to feel like you are failing your child by allowing them to be around toxic people BUT what you can control is your behaviour and responses and mode to him how you deal with toxic people.

@FedUpAtHomeTroels

The solicitor I saw last year said DS gets pretty much the full say at his age, barring any major 'visible' issues with either of us.

The thing is, DS says he does want to go there 50/50. He does see that her behaviour is wrong, because he'll often say "Nan, stop!!" , but he still wants to go there.

Thats hard, is there anywhere he can go for counciling where he learns what appropriate and loving relationships look like and waht is abuse? They don't listen to our explainations at this age, but may well listen in a counciling situation.

@jeaux90 and @Iyiyi

How do I deal with her and how should I be speaking to DS about it? I feel as if I don't have the tools to deal with them. My family say to put up boundaries, but she doesn't care about boundaries and just does it anyway. She either starts shouting or does this 'tone', and also plays the victim acting hard done by. Or on the odd occasion just tells DS to lie to me.

It's like she thinks she is his parent, and she acts accordingly.

DS knows as much as he can understand for his age that she undermines his parents, but he still loves her and wants to go there.

His father is both useless and dangerous at the same time. I'll never get any back up from him.

@FedUpAtHomeTroels I could get some counselling for DS yes. Difficult to afford, but I would do it. I see what you mean about them not really listening to our explanations at this age.

I think you deal with it by refusing to respond. You can't control your ex or his DM - so stop trying.

My DSD's mother was very similar to your ex MIL. We made a point of never biting back. We never uttered a word of criticism. It was such a relief to DSD not to be the subject of a tug of war. As a result she felt safe with us and her DM's vicious tongue lost much of its power.

Children need at least one parent they feel they can rely on.

You need to use the grey rock method with her. Read up, it's how you deal with narcissistic people too so useful with your ex.

This way she can't use your son to get to you because well, there is no getting to you.

Once you have your barriers firm with her you can focus your emotional investment in helping your son.

He just need to get a sense of what is and isn't reasonable behaviour so every time she storms in/loses her shit you talk to him about why that's not how you should behave. He also needs to see you dealing with this unreasonable behaviour as your actions will inform his.

I'll look that up thanks.

I don't think she is trying to use DS to get to me, I think in her crazy brain she thinks she's 'saving' DS from us terrible parents and she thinks it's her duty.

I think until the penny drops with ds you have to stick with it.
But handle it differently. It sounds like she comes in to berate you. Have ds ready and at the door. You don't need to talk to her about anything. If you collect from theirs, text ds and tell him you're waiting in the car.

She isnt allowed in your house full stop

The 50/50 is for you and his dad not her tell ds if she won't behave she doesn't get to collect him his dad will have to

Honestly long term your children will benefit more from seeing you stick up for yourself and them

Talk to your ex tell him to pick ds up say you won't entertain her attitude at your house anymore your done he can drag you to court for enforcement if he wants but he won't get far as your not stopping him your stopping HER from screaming at you infront of the children

And get a ring doorbell to film her behaviour legally

Speak to the school they might be able to do therapy there your son is trying to please everyone right now and its not working

Hi Op you can have counselling therapy for free as well, ask at your Doctor surgery about this kind of infor, check also have they got leaflets at walting room too.

Google internet is allways good place to find out what therapies out there and which ones are free.
As the poster said find out about free counselling therapy at his school to as schools are more open minded about holistic well being of their pupils now,
Also finding out about this kind of therapy, would stand good stead if you had this in a letter that your son or children are receiving counselling therapy because of the affect on your family unit because of the emotional abuse toxic dysfunctional attitudes and behaviour of your ex partner and your ex MiL, grandmother that it is affecting your son emotionally in adverse way, could you have a letter from Doc or counsellor or family support worker so this could help with 50/50 family court order, to be adjusted more in your favour next time?

Also explore find out the different types of counselling therapies, (the theories behind them )out there on the internet such as family dynamics therapy ,CBT cognitive behavioural Therapy etc etc,
So you as a family find out which type of therapies have the potential to be most effective for your son and your family unit..

@slipperywhensparticus

Speak to the school they might be able to do therapy there your son is trying to please everyone right now and its not working

THIS.

Your son probably feels like he has to put up with her behaviour, because she's his grandmother - whom he loves. Just like he loves you, his father and his older sister. It's not great for kids of this age to want to keep everyone else happy, juggling everyone else's emotions and pushing their own actual wants to the backburner... but it seems, very much, as if this is what your son is doing.

Can you ask your daughter to ask him what he truly wants? It may well be that he'd be more likely to open up to a sibling close to him in age, whom he knows has already voted with her feet, and who can communicate why she's done so - than it will be for him to tell you or his Dad.

Another poster said that she's not allowed in your house - and that's absolutely spot on! My ex-MIL (who also tried to undermine me with relations to my children, thought she was better than me, and didn't like when I stopped facilitating - non-court-ordered - contact/didn't force my son to spend time with them) lost the right to step foot over my threshold into our home on the day her son ended our relationship. Meet her outside... and if she starts, you say 'goodbye' to your son and you walk back into the sanctuary of your home, and shut the door behind you. She'll soon get the message that if she shouts at you in the street, she's the one who looks like the fool and that you refuse to tolerate her abuse of you any longer.

It may take time, @thepeasantsrevolt, but you will get there in the end.

She isnt allowed in your house full stop

The 50/50 is for you and his dad not her tell ds if she won't behave she doesn't get to collect him his dad will have to

Honestly long term your children will benefit more from seeing you stick up for yourself and them. Your son only goes there I think because his dad says so and he does not want to disobey. He, like you all I think, remain very fearful of his father and his mother.

The poster "Slipperywhensparticus" who wrote the above is absolutely bang on here. Why is his mother at all collecting your son?. This court order is between his dad and you; not his mother and your family unit.

A solicitor needs to be aware of the grandmother's current behaviours towards you and in turn your children.

Luckily he's not actually under her spell - just doesn't know yet how to asset himself properly with her.

I'd build on the already close and trusting relationship you have with your son.
What you do is take her out of the picture as a 'person' and replace her as a 'difficult stage character' that has to be managed
The drama/play analogy takes some of the personal relationship emotion out and will allow him to see her more 'objectively'.
Plus you and DS then get to have a giggle when you figure ways of handling her together

when she oversteps her boundaries and tries to undrmine you as a mother.....you explain to your DS in more mature way than you normally would, so he is aware what boundaries are and how both his and yours are getting violated.
Look up narcissistic behavior and ways of managing them.

The buck stops with you as his parents, and she has no right to bully you out of the way.....and she's actually being emotionally abusive towards yours on by trying to force him into giving her 'mum' status.

Can you go back to the court and explain that though you have kept to the order all this time, the situation has changed for the worse, and you are having to deal with DS's grandmother rather than his father, and that she is a destructive presence in his life and your family's life. Hopefully that might make a difference and they can amend the order? Particularly if you can show that your ex does not have any or much input around his child. The breaking of covid restrictions should be of interest to the court too. I hope you can get this sorted out so that you can break away from this destructive situation.

Do you have open conversations with your DS about her? My grandmother was a very difficult person and sounds not unlike your exMiL. My parents were open with us as we got to our teens about what she could be like and things she did and said that were and were not okay. We still loved her and went to see her, but when we got home, no-one was pretending that she was anything other than a very difficult woman.

Thanks everyone who has replied. I'm finding it very helpful.

Yes DS is very fearful of his father, but at the same time is desperate for more connection with him. DS does not feel at all able to stand up to his father about anything. He really fears his displeasure. Whereas I know his bark is worse than his bite, and I've tried to get DS to understand this and take small steps but he says he can't.

I'm more concerned about her influence than his though tbh. I'm not sure why though.

Would the courts really be interested in her trying to take him to breach COVID restrictions do you think? I am really concerned about that. DS doesn't want to breach them but she goes in a strop.

They might not be bothered by her breaching but I would be reporting each and every time (I'm not always a nice person)

what the court should be interested in is the unhealthy attitude she has towards you the tantrums the shouts the nasty behaviour towards you the child who has to beg his nan to calm

Its emotional abuse your son needs to know its wrong and he doesn't need to accept this no matter how much we love someone love shouldn't be like this

Disengage from this woman, don’t give her what she wants and that a reaction. Handover needs to be elsewhere. Your focus should be supporting your son navigate the difficult relationships he has with his Dad and Nan. Your son needs counselling.