Getting married again but kids refusing to attend

[Nicknamegoeshere]

So my fiancé and I are thinking we should make the most of this Covid situation (it certainly works in our favour financially!) and marry under the current rule of max 15. We could include both families with no issues and no politics re inviting x, y and x. Yay!

However, my boys (10 and 13) are both saying they wouldn't be comfortable to attend. It's breaking my heart.

They both have an excellent relationship with my fiancé but my narcissistic ex-husband has told them that should they attend that would be highly disrespectful to him.

Bit of background... We are divorced and will have been separated seven years in January. Very acrimonious split. He has a fiancé also (age gap of 18 yrs) and they have been together for around four years also, the same sort of time my fiancé and I have been together. I don't think they have any immediate plans to marry. No kids together and no plans for any apparently. My fiancé and I have a baby daughter together, she is almost five months.

Advice please!

[Dery]

“I remember your previous threads and it’s a lot more complicated than your boys are refusing to attend your wedding.

Tbh I would put it all on hold until your children are older. How would it help matters in any way to get ready now? Can you at least wait until you have been to court?”

This. I also remember your previous threads. Your XH is vile. Of course you should be able to marry your fiancé without these nasty games, but I would put the wedding on hold and prioritise getting things to a position where your 13yo feels able to interact with his little sister (congratulations on her arrival, btw!).

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@june2007 It's in the Agreement that they can contact either parent at any time. His control makes them obligated to do so.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

Thing is, under normal circumstances we wouldn't be able to afford some of the venues this Covid-19 situation is meaning we can afford. Just no way! And we both love the idea of the 15 guests maximum, it really appeals to us both. None of the "But what about Great Aunt Ethel?" debates!
We are also keenly aware post Covid venues are going to be booked up for years. Not being morbid but my lovely mum was diagnosed with Stage 3 cancer 2 years ago and my fiancé's parents are both late 70's too, so something we are mindful of too.

[rainyoutside]

I’d just have a marriage purely for the legal position. Witnesses from where ever, done. It’s not fair on you at all but I think to do anything else would be impossible.

[nosswith]

It's far more disrespectful to deny someone with stage 3 cancer the chance to see their daughter marry with all their grandchildren present, in my opinion.

[Pringlemonster]

Your making this in to a bigger deal than it is
Your boys feel pulled in both directions,they love you both ,and they are being made to choose ,you are putting them in a difficult situation .
Take the decision out of their hands ,just have a quiet wedding ,the 2 of you and 2 witnesses.
To expect them to go against their dad is wrong of you ,he’s clearly a bully ,they are clearly scared of him ,so obviously they can’t just make their own mind up to attend the wedding,as they will suffer the consequences when they next see him.
You need to take the decision out of their hands ,as their mum ,and put them first.
Either have a very small wedding with 2 witness ,and keep it quiet ,you don’t need all the fuss ,if it’s going to stoke the flames
Or wait untill your boys are adults and marry then.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@nosswith How do I explain that to my children?

[RB68]

quite honestly I would be looking to get the kids some help with emotions and counselling, he is damaging them and ho wpeople who have no plans to have kids want the boys more than 50 50 is beyond thought.

It absolutely is not your fault for picking him he will have hidden what he was like. He is cross that you left beofre he was ready (I have seen this with other narcissists) and taking you to court over wanting more than 50/50 is ridiculous. You need some reports from childcare professionals that indicate the damage this is doing to the boys - frankly my view is if he is emotionally abusing the boys he deserves NO contact especially for the 13 yr old who is obviously emotionally not mature enough to handle this and is mirroring his Dads behaviour towards you for some reason

[Pringlemonster]

Sorry I sounded harsh
I was in your boys situation as a child .
Neither of my parents gave an inch ,they made my life a misery ,with their back stabbing and always trying to get me to choose .
I just wish one of them have waved a white flag and stopped it all.
That’s what I was trying to say, but it came out wrong
Be the bigger person and put the boys first ,so they don’t have a decision to make choosing between you both ..they will love you so much more for it x

[HappySonHappyMum]

I think your best option is to do all the arranging of your wedding when your boys are with their Dad. Keep the date and the planning totally secret from them - put it all out of sight when they are around - then your exH can not get involved or sabotage it. Present it to your boys as a fait accompli. Tell them that you've kept it secret from them the night before so they don't feel pressured to share the details with your ex. They may feel less pressured this way and it won't become such a big deal for them.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@Pringlemonster I've never asked my boys to choose between us. But how can one 50/50 with an abuser?

[duggeeismynewbestfriend]

@Nicknamegoeshere

When he brings you back to court asking for an increase in contact, apply for full residence with supervised contact on the basis of the emotional harm he is causing your children. Document everything that he does, everything that shows how affected the children are etc.

Read the chump lady site about parenting with a narc, be the sane one. His actions are on him not on you. Stay strong and just do what you can for your children.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@duggeeismynewbestfriend Thank you. The judge decided tthat we should have "expert involvement" so we've all been assessed as it were.

What you describe will only ever come true in my wildest dreams sadly. Ex-husband has nothing but hate towards me but is an incredibly skilled maniplulator. Emotionally he is affected by nothing and genuinely believes his own lies. He controls through fear and uses it to get what he wants. He will be believed.

[duggeeismynewbestfriend]

@Nicknamegoeshere

They are never as clever as they think they are. Get a great lawyer. Family lawyers see these people all the time.

The fact that your youngest child is referred to as it is indefensible on any scale.

Don't give him that power over you: it doesn't matter if he feels or not. He can understand boundaries, if you do a the consequences will be b. drag me back to court and I will take the opportunity to show the court this. It might make him think twice about it next time.

He doesn't rule you by fear any longer, he might do with your children, so do all you can to protect them. But they will grow up and they will work him out for themselves.

Have faith, these people never win really, he might get small victories over you now but it will end. Do the freedom Programme, Grey rock him. Please look at the chumplady site, she has a great book with a chapter on parenting with a narc. Documents everything the children say, do, act when they come back from
dads etc.

You can't change him, but you can put boundaries in place, get yourself stronger. Protect yourself and do all you can to protect them. It doesn't matter whether the court actually changes the order to sole residence with supervised contact. The point of that you have shown him his actions have consequences.

Stay strong 💪

[silentpool]

If you want to get married for legal reasons, maybe do a registry office wedding. You can always renew the vows later and maybe things will improve by then. But I can see your ex being spiteful about a wedding so this would be one more piece of ammunition.

[picosandsancerre]

Are you the same poster whose ex was filling the boys heads with nastiness about the new baby when you were pregnant?

Your older boy I believe wants to now stay with his dad and your younger boy is heading that way too. Perhaps you need to stop and speak to a solicitor about parental alienation instead of ignoring what your ex is doing to your kids and planning a wedding that they dont want to attend.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@picosandsancerre My lovely...my current solicitor fees for this issue alone currently sit at £20k. I have sacrificed buying a house for my family because of these bloody unfair and ridiculous costs.

Also, you are suggesting in essence I should continue to be controlled by an abuser and shouldn't get married. My kids don't "want" to attend as they are in fear of doing so.

With respect, you are ignorant.

[SandyY2K]

Your Ex hates you more than he loves his children and that's very very sad. He has no concern about the long term damage he's doing to the boys.

I was going to ask if you're not worried your eldest could hurt your DD, as a result of the manipulation.... but him playing with her when his brother isn't there is a little sign he does like her.

Could you get him counselling via school and tell him nobody needs to know and everything in the sessions would be between him and the counsellor? I know he's scared of his dad finding out, but I think it would be really helpful for him.

I was thinking you would have had the baby by now actually.

I really feel for you.

[IJustWantSomeBees]

I don't have advice (apart from to magic a ton of money out of thin air to take your disgusting ex to court) but I wanted to say that I am so incredibly sorry that your ex is doing this to you and your children. I have read a lot of awful stories on MN about abusive men but what he is doing to your sons is extremely disturbing and I am just really sorry that you are having to deal with this. I'm so happy to hear that you have found a new partner and have your lovely dd and I hope this is somehow resolved for you

[Sssloou]

I have read your earlier threads and the way you have been treated is horrific and your rage and frustration tangible.

All emotions are energy and I don’t know if you can find a way to switch the rage and frustration that consumes you into positive energy - to know that the rage and frustration is seeping out I said and is polluting your baby girl and yours boys.

Your only option in this situation is to show your boys contrast - that there is no bitterness, that there is joy, fun, safety, encouragement, respect and kindness in your peaceful home.

I know this is difficult but maybe you could compartmentalise the justified rage and get it out through therapy, exercise etc. Otherwise you will just drain away these precious moments and opportunities to demonstrate how emotionally healthy and respectful people behave.

Be the contrast where he causes fear - show unstinting safety. Where he is nasty show indifference or kindness. Show your boys that you can choose to be riled by someone - or you can choose to self protect and swerve the hot coal thrown at you.

Just take this moment by moment. Don’t keep looking back with resentment to the 50/50 stitch up and the upcoming court case. Neither of which you can change or impact. Concentrate on today - this moment - this evening. Force in calm, peace, joy, kindness and fun. Be attuned to your boys - see any acting out as fear and have compassion for that.

[picosandsancerre]

I am not ignorant. I had an abusive father too however situations were very different in the 70s. My father would turn up when he felt like it and beat my mother. He played games with me and my sisters heads and used to refer to her as the witch. I went NC with my dad at age 16 having dealt with his crap then he had his new partner and baby . Left them to it.

you say the bills are too high so how do you imagine fixing this? I would assume your boys will move in with there dad as things sound dangerous for your DD. Sadly given your ex abuse he will be thrilled at telling you the boys wont want to see you. Your boys will think your not interested and will be playing happy families with your new baby. I understand this from a childs persepctive. I think its a dreadful situation all round and unless you can throw money at it or get your DC to do family therapy I cant see how your going to move forward in a positive way.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

Thanks all. Yes you're right - I'm trying hard to live for the moment. It's hard though as I know I'm facing another huge fight again for my boys. It's always hanging over me.
You never think you'll lose your kids, especially when you've done nothing wrong.
I'm terrified that one day I'll lose my daughter too. My rational brain says that is very unlikely to happen, but the truth is nobody really ever knows.
I often wonder was it worth leaving him for us all to have to go through this never -ending trauma? I honestly don't know.
But what's done is done. I'll try hard to find a way through.

[MarriedtoDaveGrohl]

Can you arrange the wedding in total secret for a day you know you have both children and then just take them there? So he doesn't know it's happening and therefore can't stop it?

[DonLewis]

I was going to suggest a secret wedding too, but that's as manipulative as he is, when you think it through.

I think I'd explain to the boys that you need to get married now so that granny can be there. That you understand what your dad has said about it, but, he no longer has any say over your life, or granny's life, and that having divorced parents is really, really tough. Explain that you live them dearly and would love for then to be there, but you understand that their loyalty to their dad is a strong feeling. That you don't think it would be disloyal, but that you understand that he has said it would be. Offer them a compromise. That they can skip the ceremony and come to the party. Because the party is small and not actually the wedding. That they're welcome at the cermeniy and you'd very much like them at the ceremony, but you respect their choices.

It all about constantly being the bigger person. Eventually the scales will fall and they'll see what's going on/what went on.

It must really, really hurt op.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

I love the surprise day idea, but all we can really afford to do is the ceremony anyway now. A party would have been lovely, but of course legal fees and housing have to take priority. So bare minimum as is - no flowers, no photographer, no bridesmaids etc. So not sure how the boys could really join if that makes sense? Also, it's a tricky one as I do think on one hand they'd feel left out because all of our families would be present except for them?