Help me sort this mess out

[earthtopluto]

I have a family member who I was very close to when I was growing up. She's not immediate family (think cousin, aunt, niece type of relationship). She's been trying to contact me recently but I'm conflicted, as it has all come out that she's being quite abusive to an older family member, to the extent that another member of my family has been in contact with the helpline for elder abuse, and they're looking at having a non molestation order put in place. I love both of these family members, but can't bring myself to communicate with someone who is abusive someone I love in this way (think intimidation and verbal abuse, as opposed to physical abuse). I have been in an abusive relationship myself, and am completely avoidant of any sort of conflict because of this. I hate it and it sends me in to panic. Due to this, I have been avoiding the abusive family member and haven't told her why I have been ignoring her calls (for months). I'm not even meant to know about the situation, and if she knew that it had filtered down to me, it could make it worse for the abused party. I am driving myself insane, don't know how long I can ignore her calls for, am sad that I may have to lose this relationship because I cannot condone abuse. I'm just feeling a bit lost, sorry for my family member, and could use some advice re how I mentally deal with this myself? Do I keep ignoring? Do I reach out and try and help her address her abusive behaviours?

So exhausted by it all...

Do you believe it if her? Foes she seem the diet who could be this way?
Is the person who called the helpline a bit of a shit stirrer?
How does the elderly person involved feel?

I would want to be sure of things before cutting someone I loved out of my life. But I would go into it, listening to my head and not just my heart.

Lol *does she seem the type

@bunnymumy

Do you believe it if her? I absolutely believe her. She's not the type to cause a fuss, and this has apparently been going on for years.

Foes she seem the diet who could be this way? Yes. She falls out with every friend she has. She is very, very sensitive to very minor things (such as sending a text to say happy birthday instead of calling). She is a difficult character. I have never had an issue myself with her personally but I am very conflict averse.

Is the person who called the helpline a bit of a shit stirrer? Absolutely not. He is very concerned, again is conflict averse. The abused party contacted him in a complete state asking for his help and advice. He contacted the helpline with good intentions.

How does the elderly person involved feel? Exhausted. Scared. Confused. Tired with it all. She's so, so lovely and doesn't want to cause a fuss. She has put up with it for this long because she wants to help her family member but it's reached a breaking point where she can't cope anymore.

Sounds quite conclusive then that this person did these things...and is a horrible sort.

I guess for me it would come down to...not standing up against evil, is what allows it to continue. If you stay in contact with this person, who has never hurt you (yet) it condones her behaviour.

If she treats someone she is supposed to love, with contempt, then no one around her is safe.

@bunnymumy I agree wholeheartedly. However, after completing the freedom programme twice and learning about abuse, I have also learned that cutting ties completely with an abuser isn't always the best path when there's potential to help them to change their behaviour. I'm just a bit torn.

The best path for who? Why do you feel the need to help them change their behaviour? Why do you think you could potentially change an abuser's behaviour?

...what the bloody hell kind of course is telling you you can help an abuser? A trained therapist specialist would have their work cut out with that! Are you a trained therapist? No. Just get out, fast.

Sorry but anyone advising you to hang about 'helping' an abuser is off their bloody box.

Maybe this referred to things like if they have an alcohol addiction or something making them behave like that? But even then its bloody risky to stay involved.

Dont put yourself at risk. You are already vulnerable as you have come from a background of abusive relationships. Concentrate on protecting yourself.

I have also learned that cutting ties completely with an abuser isn't always the best path when there's potential to help them to change their behaviour

Where did you learn this?

They haven't told me specifically that I need to help them to change their behaviour, but I just thought that if I'm in a position to try and have a Frank conversation with them about it then maybe that would be a sensible thing to do. Maybe I'm wrong though. They've been a big part of my life for nearly 30 years so understand that it's a struggle to just cut them off without trying.

@eckhart I learnt that family members who have an abuser in their family, can help that person by helping them to realise what they're doing and assist them in gaining help. I learnt it through the freedom programme who used the example of domestic abuse perpetrator programmes. There is an emphasis on trying to change their behaviour as opposed to just leaving them to continue being abusive without addressing it.

Did you ever try to have a frank conversation with a playground bully? 'Hey bully, your behaviour is mean and hurtful and I think you should stop'. 'Hahahahaha, nah... ...stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself'. You'll get the adult version of that.

You cant talk niceness or decency or respect or kindness into a bully. Let alone a grown adult one.

I think that's to do with helping people who are looking for help, isn't it? Abusers who want to stop abusing?

My main question is

but can't bring myself to communicate with someone who is abusive someone I love in this way

why would you invalidate your own instincts, here?

Tou could point them in the direction of a therapist who deals with cluster b personality disorders. But you wont get any thanks for it! And that's really all the help you can give.

(Disclaimer: dont actually point a psychopath to a psychopath therapist, I was jesting).

@bunnymumy she's not a psychopath, just a deeply troubled person.

I wouldn't get involved either way op. Theres some sort of dark personality going on if she is abusing someone else. 'Troubled' people still have a conciounce..it appears she is sadly lacking in that area.

Don't get involved. Being the right hand of the devil will not keep you safe from it.

*conscience

I guess I feel like my silence condones her behaviour in some way. I am also deeply troubled so I do apologise if I am not approaching this in the same way that a normal person would.

It's not really sensible to try to reason with someone who has long-standing previous form for being a 'difficult' person and it's not really your responsibility to try to sort it out. As this is causing you anxiety and is triggering you regarding previous emotional abuse you have suffered, it may be in your best interests to distance yourself completely from this person. You don't need to explain your reasons to them or put yourself in the firing line as I am sure they will not welcome your reasons for not wanting to have a relationship with them and could potentially abuse you. You seem convinced that the allegations against them are true so you don't really need to justify to yourself the reason not to be in contact. Give yourself permission to block/ignore/cut this person off. It's self preservation which is totally reasonable and understandable.

As my therapist always says you can feel sorry for a rabid dog but you don't have to pat it!

I think your vulnerabilities of having shitty peeps in your past are all the more reason for you to stay well out of it op. It isn't your job to try to save someone else from themself - if you attempt this it would show that you cant even save yourself from yourself.

Don't put yourself at risk.

The only person who can help her,is her. IF she chooses to seek help.

I do apologise if I am not approaching this in the same way that a normal person would

You're approaching it exactly as a normal person would. You wish you could do something to help but you're not sure because you might get damaged in the process.

You are not the only person who can help this abuser. Let someone else do it. Someone who has the right strengths. Your strength can be in supporting the victim, perhaps? Helping them get support, helping them speak out. After all, you have experience from this point of view.

Supporting abusers is something to do when the abuser gets professional support, and asks for your support too.

One way for you to be strong is to avoid situations that make you vulnerable. This is one of those situations.

Keep Ignoring abusive person they may be trying to use you as back up as you are non confrontational
They may want you on there side adding to your stress
Thank his covid gives us great excuse to keep our distance