Family making bf feel bad

[Rezrex]

My bf is British and I'm from Scandinavia, where we currently live.

My bf revealed yesterday that he feels that my brother and father have anti-british sentiments and feels like he is othered and made feel bad due to his nationality. He is happy to talk about politics but he feels like all of British history is on his shoulders and they are not tolerant on his views. It can be a comment on brexit, BoJo, British empire. He is made feel like Britain is crap and our nation is awesome.

He says he feels like it started in 2016 after brexit vote. It's not all the time and it can be just a small part of the evening and rest is completely pleasant. But since it has happened a few times he is now on the edge whenever he sees them and is not keen for their company. He said that he used to have a "man crush" on my brother but because of his intolerant views he has lost respect for him and is not really interested in continuing a friendship. My brother is one of my fave people and I think he and my bf is so much alike. My dad is slightly eccentric guy with strong views, he is the type of person you need to know in order to get him. And I don't really notice it anymore cause I've grown up with it.

Bf says these often happen when I'm not there and thinks it's because they don't think he is good enough or don't like him. This is not the case. I've heard them talk how great he is. I think that they are interested in Britain due to bf coming to our family and they are a bit of history and current event buffs and going about it very wrongly.

I am absolutely shocked that my family has made him feel this way. I'm disturbed that I've been so unaware of this. I really need to look into the mirror with this one. I've noticed that he is a bit meh about seeing them. But I've assumed that it's because he is introverted and family in general does not mean a lot to him. Actually, I've been a bit hurt how he has no interest in sharing the social side of our lives but now I know why.

He says that he doesn't want to make me choose between him and my family. His solution is that he will pick and choose when he sees them and will just kind of be on guard and prepare himself before seeing them in case there is a comment. He feels that the problem is solved.

I don't think that is the solution. I think this is a huge deal with massive effects for the future. I don't want to subject him to a company that makes him feel bad.

I am certain that if they were aware they would immediately stop. I think because they all have a raunchy sense of humour (including bf) and bf jokes back (his defence mechanism) so they think it is banter. Bf is adamant that I should not say anything. I really think saying to my brother "hey, could you cut down with critical brit talk. I think it's pushing the line with bf" would do the trick and be no big deal. Bf is absolutely against me saying anyhting. I then suggested that maybe he would say "guys, can you let it go?" If they say something. But that is not an option. He went on about asserting dominance and other primitive masculine bs (which he is not usually like). He is worried that he will be pushed over the line at some point and he will say something that will not be polite.

I really don't know what to do next? Talk to my brother against my bf's wishes? Bf never seeing them again? Make sure he is never left alone with them and change subject if it gets to risky territory? Pretend I don't know anything and we can both be on edge and uncomfortable?

Worst thing is that we have a dinner plans tonight with my siblings and their partners. He refuses to cancel eventhough I could give him an easy out. We will return to the subject once I've gathered myself. I'm kind of trying to figure out how to navigate this.

Tl;dr

They'll soon lose interest in teasing him when he doesn't respond. Very basic grey rock.

Wow, he can banter and that's fine as it's his defense mechanism. But when they do he goes all fragile. He doesn't want you to say anything and easily fix this, but threatens that he might not be able to control himself and end up being rude. Why not just say "can you stop now, it's getting boring/old/offensive" or does that not fit his narrative of the victim?

And as for the asserting dominance bollock??! What toxic masculinity defense websites has he been reading?

He's claiming it started four years ago, but didn't bring it up til now. Why the wait? Why is the weight of British history suddenly on his shoulders? Something has changed lately, so I'd be looking at his search history for dodgy sites about white British men being oppressed. I'm assuming he's white with this sudden British pride thing?

He may say he's not trying to make you choose, but in practical terms he is. You are never going to be able to relax with your family again with him there. But instead of taking the easy out, he's going to go tonight (just after laying all this on you) and make it hell for you. You'll find yourself slowly seeing family less because it's so uncomfortable with him there or because you're embarrassed when they ask why he hasn't joined you.

There is more to this sudden character change than meets the eye. Be wary.

What @Thingsdogetbetter said. He’s creating a situation where he’s allowed to get offended and start to distance himself from your family (creating a conflict of loyalty for you) but you’re not allowed to take a few simple steps which might resolve the situation. That’s bullshit. I think he has an agenda here.

And, btw, you can be British and still think Brexit is a serious mistake for the country. I certainly do as do millions of others. (Though of course more people think it’s a good thing, hence the Tory landslide).

Op, be careful. These are isolation tactics on his part.

If he didn't want you to do anything about it, then he wouldn't have told you.

He is inviting you to start avoiding your family. He is starting softly. He's hoping you will rush to please him and start seeing them less yourself.

Be wary, be wary.

I have in-law family members who slag off the brits a lot and I hate it. It does feel like criticism of me, and I do not consider myself a particularly patriotic person and I am totally realistic about how awful/stupid Brexit is and how we have a very difficult history. The longer it goes on the more personal it feels. So I think his feelings are actually justifiable. It’s little things, like they use the term “you” to mean Brits, but it feels like it means me. When it happens a lot it does get to you.

He has a solution, you don’t like it. I can understand both points of view from where I have been, assuming he isn’t trying to stop you seeing them. I did actually call it out and say I found it insulting and unnecessary and it did improve, although still far from perfect. And I put up with it and still see them. But it has impacted how comfortable I am around them and I can’t change that.

That said, I have never been anything other than lovely about their country.

Don'teven try to be understanding to your partner on this forum- have you not seen the unwritten rule that all men are assholes whose every action is negative to you as a woman???

The sexism on this board is alive and well on here and godobly knows how many relationships have been killed when just a bit of communication would have made all the difference.

With regards to you OP, perhaps inthe middle of the 'banter' say OK thats enough now, and change the subject. Do it enough times and they'll get the message. If the pro lem then turns to something else, then reevaluate

Why not just say "can you stop now, it's getting boring/old/offensive" or does that not fit his narrative of the victim?

@Thingsdogetbetter Not everyone finds that easy or would want to risk damaging toeir relationship with in-laws further by doing that.

*their

I think he's trying to keep the issue low key whole not stopping op from seeing them. Doesn't want to cause a scene.

#while

I have a British friend living in Scandinavia who has had the same experience but not from in-laws, thankfully. I'd be inclined to say it to my own brother - just to give it a rest for a while.

This might be too long to read aswell :D

Thanks for the responses, I know this is MN and some things come with the territory. I think it came out now is because we moved here in January 2020 and due to covid he has not been able to visit the uk.

I'm thinking that me or him saying something (politely) would be the best and easiest solution. I will approach him about this when we talk about it next. In case he is more open to it. I can kinda get why he doesn't like either option cause I'm not sure I'd be able to say "cut it out" to his parents now would I really be happy him handling something for me.

I think @Shamoo said it well. The general "you" feels like a personal "you". And instead of talking about anything and everything there is a Small reminder that he is "other". I sometimes felt it when living in the UK. The questions were always about my nationality instead of about me. Do you see these family members only in "mandatory" events or do you socialize for fun?

We went to the dinner. I made note of all the things that were said. I was fully prepared to shut down the conversation. I took note of everything being said (around 5ish things) and it seemed like it is the small innocent comments that are just reminders that he is not from here like “he is british, he likes to drink” or “it’s not like it’s fish and chips” that were worst. Which are meant light hearted but just stop being funny at some point. I didn’t have to shut down anything but I did make a few jabs about our own country not being that great. When we were finishing dinner, I made some noise about being tired after my hike and being ready to go home as an out for my bf (since this was all new info to me). But he wanted to have one more drink at the pub. As we were walking out to the pub my brother kinda side hugged me and said how much fun it is to hang out together and it really hit me. In the pub I feel like bf relaxed.

After the pub (cause they close early due to covid) bf wanted to go to brothers for a few more drinks and we ended up staying very late. When brother mentioned lunch/movie night bf was all “yeah, that sounds good!” so I really hope he is planning on following through. Cause In our culture that is a promise instead of a thing you say and don’t mean. It’s harder to have him not come if he is the one agreeing. So I feel like there is this very fine line that is being balanced and sometimes it is fine and sometimes it is not. But it does create this wall.

Annoyingly, my bf has this thing that once he has said something out loud and he is totally fine. I am not. I’m trying to figure out how to navigate and how to find solutions to this and it is a lot on my mind and he is unsure why I’m a bit distant (this happened after every talk. he is fine within 5 minutes and for me it takes longer and he is confused on why I haven’t forgotten about it already). I do think he was very anxious when we talked so he might have been a bit harsher than what is actually happening, where as I took it literally.

A short simple "that's enough" will cut "the banter". It gets tiresome when an individual is the butt of the "banter". He does not have to respond with a better "banter" back. And yes he needs to draw a boundary. And if the "banter" from family continues in your presence you need to say "that's enough".

I think 5 comments during one meal is a lot. It sounds annoying more than anything. If you're making an effort to join a family and get on with them to constantly be 'othered'...and to have to laugh at jokes about fish and chips and tea for 10 months sounds really dull. It's good that everyone could relax in the pub and stop the interactions being so us/your bf even if they were only ever in jest.

Does your dp know anyone else aside from you and your family?

If you just moved this year then it's still quite early days, even without the covid situation.

I can really relate to this from my experience in another country. Generally no real rudeness in any individual comment, but it adds up ....

And if you're the only brit in the room it can feel personal, or burdensome to be seen as 'representative', especially as I'm not anyway, having grown up in the uk but one parent is from another country.

In superficial social situations I could brush it off, but in one much longer term friendship it is a real problem because we get on really well in general. Difficult to know how to deal with it, especially in another language.

Is their 'Britain is crap' based on having visited?

In our case, these friends haven't and the assumptions made tend to be very outdated cliches.

Otoh, their very vocal 'our country is awesome' is constant, stated as absolute fact. We have always been very complimentary about the country, but they take it further - their culture and cuisine is the envy of the world. When our friends' extended family have have been present, some of them even quiz my children to test their knowledge of the awesomeness, very uncomfortable.

Unlike your situation though, they don't mention politics as they're very embarrassed about that aspect of their country!!!

I think it's great that you're sensitive to the issue and are monitoring it. That in itself seems to have already made a difference, and, as you say, the fact that he got those feelings out. Hopefully this will settle and you can both enjoy social time with your family.

Mmm, personally, I see your BF's points and those sort of comments would irritate me too. As a pp said, it feels personal even if it's supposedly just a joke/about Britain in general.

I mean, I'm assuming they were all drinking too but the "he's british, he likes to drink" comment is one that is clearly a dig at British drinking culture. Obviously, his best response would be to say, "well, it's not like you guys can complain about that the way you drink" or similar, but often those ideas don't come up. Ditto the fish and chips comment suggests that British food is bad. I'd be telling your DP the tyou have no issue if he wants to push back a little - rather a pointed "lighthearted" response now than an explosion that is totally out of proportion later.

As a non Brit, I've had this sort of thing and it is tedious and boring beyond belief. Similarly, ILs, who aren't English, have an annoying habit of commenting on England, politics, NHS etc from a position of 100% zero knowledge and do so in a way that is rude/patronising/sneering. It drives Dh and I crazy when they do it. I refuse to take it and am very firm in my rebuttals.

Thanks for lovely responses.

I would like to say that nobody has said "UK is crap, we are awesome" that's just what my bf said that it felt like. All my family members have visited UK and they really like the country and even before me and my bf got together some would visit every year. They do not think it's crap at all and we are not patriotic. It's just a feeling he has when someone says something. If he would say soemthing back about our shitty aspects, they would take it.

5 comments were way too many. But that includes one genuine question and a funny story about visiting London (their own mistake, but took place on teh tube) but I counted those since they would not have been brought up if bf was not there. I fully support bf pushing back instead of an explosion.

I thought I was prepared to push back, but for example the drinking comment was just a one liner and didn't continue so the moment passed and honestly I wasn't sure what to say. Especailly since that is the stereotype of us aswell. None of them would mind our stereotypes being brought up and we completely make fun of our uncultured cuisine and bf will make fun of british cuisine. But it is one of those "when I say it, it is fine" situations.

I think this is an international phenomena. I've lived in a few different countries and the othering happened there for me aswell. I think the differnece here is the fact that these are people that we are in a way trying to form a family with. It's just unfortunate that UK is so famous that people read about it.

I'm prone to anxiety and this whole thing has kinda changed my view on our future. I really don't want my bf to be uncomfortable and he seems to think the current situation is ok. I disagree. I cannot really think if I'm overreacting or if my bf is underreacting.

I think the current situation sounds positive, despite your concerns. There is openness and cultural awareness and good will it seems. Maybe the drinking joke was actually based on common ground, knowing that both have that reputation? And the fact that you can all laugh about cuisine.

Quite different from the experience I shared above, where the problem is that we're not patriotic at all and can happily joke about our own cultural stereotypes, but they are so patriotic that it blocks exchange at the personal level where, for example, it is assumed that we wouldn't be able to cook decent food, something we've happily done with friends since forever.

Has your bf lived abroad before? How about language? Like you I've lived in other countries. Each time, no matter how happy I was to move, I had occasional very unsettled periods during the first 18 months.

I totally get it as I, too, lived in a European country for a few years when I was younger.

Does your bf speak your language? If not, is he having lessons?

My mobile cannot handle mumsnet for some reason so resposnes take time, cause I’m not on my personal computer that much.

But I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Some things make so much sense. Maybe a month ago my bf started very randomly asking questions about how I felt when living in the UK or how I feel when people make fun on the bad neighborhood where I am from. I thought it was random but now I understand why. He has also been a lot more critical about my home country. Him coming out with the info has been clearly brewing.

Anyways, the piss taking and banter is coming from a good place and not from a place of superiority. Went to see family (it’s half term and my brother is visiting with his family. We don’t normally meet up this many times) and my nephew told me to say hi to bf “because he is very cool, I like him and he is nice to talk with”. I thought this was adorable and he is liked by fam. We were crying laughing about SIL being cheap and mom not being domestic. All in good fun. In bf’s case it has happened to be his nationality which makes it totally different. It is othering. This is not helped by fam enjoying British comedies and panel show and thinking this humor is ok. Fam does not know when they are crossing the line and that some things are not ok for us to say. It’s only funny when person from there says it. Bf just takes it. So there is kind of miscommunication that I would love to solve. If the miscommunication was solved and family still were being an ass, then that would be a whole other thing.

He does not speak the language. He took some lessons 6ish years ago in the UK for a while. He has toyed with the idea with taking lessons again, but I doubt he will. Most English speakers here don’t learn the language. I totally understand that the first 18months require adjustment. And moving abroad is othering when other can see/hear that you are not local. I just wish my family was not the thing he needs adjustment from. I am prone to anxiety and I feel like this left me in a weird limbo where I’m not sure about the rules which is annoying. I also know that my mother will ask something at some point cause she knows when something is up.

It's a tricky situation to navigate I guess, as there isn't a clear set of rules. I can understand your anxiety about it being your family, even though it's part of his adjustment to a very big change. If you lived further away from your family it would probably still be happening, just with other people and he'd have to manage his reactions and feelings.

Thinking back to when I was struggling with culture shock, it affected me on so many levels for a while - the problem wasn't even really that the banter about brits bothered me, and it wouldn't normally.

Also meant to say, I don't think there's much you can or should do, beyond the sensitivity to the issue that you've already shown :)

God he sounds like really hard work and it seems as though you are piggy in the middle the whole time trying to stop one from having a go at the other being pulled apart in the process.
When I lived in Germany I just put up with this type of banter, laughed it off and joked back. If something was said that was a bit too close to the knuckle I just ignored it.
If he can't cope with it I'd just let him go, family is much more important you can't risk your relationship with them.
My last husband tried to separate me from my family like this all the time, there was always something he was moaning about. It was a massive relief when he left.

@kathyssong thanks. also I think him not being able to see his family and be around other brits has not helped.

@madcatladyforever I feel like there are some steps missing between Bf shares his feelings->break up. This conversation happened a week ago