Relationship with Sister

[StokKangri]

I've never been that close to her - stemming from the fact that I went away at an early age for my education and she didn't. Ergo, I wasn't living at home with my parents and she was. I didn't really see her much and our lives didn't really cross over.

She settled at an early age, had children and then split. She met a new guy and had more children.

So an issue for me has always been presents. I am expected to buy birthdays and Christmas, and I also buy separately for the adults. So that's 14 presents a year. I tried to scale back a while ago but it was met with a lot of tears and upset from the family. Anyway, she then has to get me something at Christmas time and for my birthday. To be honest I cant remember the time I last received something ahead of the day. Usually its a few weeks after the event. I sometimes find myself opening my Christmas present in February or March. I'm pretty old school and still pop a card or a note in the post just to say thanks.

It was a big milestone birthday for her recently and given COVID she couldn't really celebrate. But she did have a "socially distanced" gathering - to which our parents and aunts/uncles were invited. I wasn't .. which I sort of understand. I would have preferred if she told me, but really the first I knew about it was actually the weekend before. So instead I spent quite a lot of money on a present for her. Way more than I would spend, and my sister would have known the value.

Since then I've heard nothing .. no thanks... nothing She found the time to send me pictures of everyone having a good time but couldn't even be bothered to text and say thanks.

What do I do. Say nothing and realise that it will always be like this. Or say something. Or just quietly stop buying presents for them all. Over the past couple of years she mentions a desire to have a closer relationship with me.. tbh, I'm pretty happy not really ever speaking to her again.

Oh sorry and I forgot to say actually sometimes she forgets my birthday all together

I wouldn't send any more presents. Save yourself the bother as it's not appreciated and buy yourself something nice!

Do you actually LIKE your sister or your parents? If you don’t like your sister, stop buying her gifts. It was very kind of you to buy an expensive gift given you weren’t invited to the party. Why were you not invited, you say you ‘kind of understand’ why not....? Do you like your nieces/nephews/sisters partner? Again, if not why buy? As to her saying she wants a closer relationship with you, actions speak louder than words, would you agree? You could always simply buy small token gifts if the fallout from no gifts would be unbearable for you. But of course there’s always the saying ‘you don’t choose your family’ - and you can choose whether or not to have that relationship based on how it makes you feel for the majority of the time. If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got?

So an issue for me has always been presents. I am expected to buy birthdays and Christmas, and I also buy separately for the adults. So that's 14 presents a year. I tried to scale back a while ago but it was met with a lot of tears and upset from the family

I would really scale back & stick to it. Send birthday cards to the kids if you really want to. No presents. Christmas, maybe send a joint family present - a Thornton's chocolate hamper for instance which can be delivered direct so no extra wrapping or effort needed. Wailing or tears? You are not Santa.
If your sister wants a closer relationship she needs to start putting in some effort. If she actually gets you something it doesn't cost any more to get a card or present delivered on time.

I don't like my sister, but she is my sister. Two reasons, first I have told her stuff in confidence and within a day has then gone on to tell other people. I cant trust her. Secondly, she is manipulative - there is always an agenda. For example, when she will often ask some of the richer members of the family for "emotional support" knowing full well that they will bail her out with cash. She lives beyond her means, money has no value as there is always someone who will step in. Last year she came to the city where I live with all her family, and my parents and couldn't be bothered to ask if I wanted to meet up. To be honest I would have never known, but she posted some pictures on social media after the event. She was literally 100 meters away from where I was that day and couldn't be bothered to see if I was free.

With my parents its different. Yes sometimes I feel they have neglected me (my brother also has five kids - my parents spend all of their energy on effort on those two families)... with no children myself I seem to just be a forgotten child. But I hold no grudges against them. They aren't manipulative or horrible people, they are just

And to make it worse, my own marriage has been on the rocks for a year and I am considering ending it. There is nothing fundamentally wrong, but we don't have sex, there is no intimacy and we are just friends.

I have been seeing a therapist who did mention that it seems "every woman in your life has failed you". I took that to mean maybe I allowed them to fail me - so I sort of don't want to burn a bridge with my sister.

I want to work on the relationship with her (my sister), I want to try, but I've been doing it for years and am I just flogging a dead horse. I don't have many friends, I work very hard and career driven. I'm scared I will end up with nobody.

Thanks for the comments - I do agree that scaling back is the way forward

I think you are flogged a dead horse and I think it would be better to accept it for what it is. I’m sorry, it must be very painful.

How many children does she have and what age (roughly)? May affect the present buying element

Stay in therapy. Family dynamics can be very complicated. Your sister sounds like she is manipulating your family tbh. It’s all about her right? I’d stop buying presents. Just don’t do it. Don’t discuss it. Don’t apologise. If anyone says anything say “I’m not doing presents this year” if they ask why say “to be honest, every year I have to buy at least 14 gifts. It’s too much. Its a huge expenditure for me and I don’t get gifts in return so honestly, I’m starting to feel taken the piss out of so I’m stopping so there’s no resentment”
I have a similar family to yours and my therapist has told me that I need to start being “authentic” because being anything else just ends up in frustration, depression and annoyance. They are going to be upset/difficult whatever you do so you might as well just do what makes you happy.

For family relations I'd send a family gift like a game. Birthday card for kids with a token note inside. That isn't their fault after all.

How much do you spend per person? Stop buying for adults and just put a fiver per child in a card or get a box of chocs like Cadbury’s heroes per child.

I dunno if I might sound like a dick...with regards to presents etc. I wouldn’t buy them anything and go on a nice holiday instead 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

I think it’s lovely to be happy and alone (if that’s what you choose) and spend your time and money doing what YOU want. You can go wherever you want and meet lots of lovely and interesting people.

"I have been seeing a therapist who did mention that it seems "every woman in your life has failed you". I took that to mean maybe I allowed them to fail me - so I sort of don't want to burn a bridge with my sister".

That ship however, sailed years ago and your parents have been partly responsible for that whole dynamic also. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what are your roles here?. Your sister and siblings appear to be far more favoured overall with you being their scapegoat or black sheep of the family.

You took the wrong meaning there; it is as your therapist told you. All the women in your life have failed you. Your father has failed you too; he has failed to protect you as well. Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make any of these people this way. This is all on them, they are using you as the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

Where are your boundaries at here with regards to your sister and for that matter your parents?. These are far too low and people like your sister have taken advantage. The disrespect for you is total here. How is it you've ended up previously buying 14 presents for all these ungrateful people?. They think you're a mug and doormat for them to wipe their feet on.

Your parents are also emotionally unhealthy and they also formed this dynamic between you and your siblings. These people will never be the nice people you so want them to be nor will they give you the approval you perhaps still seek from them. They will continue to take full advantage of your kind nature and naiveity as long as you allow yourself to be treated like this. You matter; you should be tired of being the last one who matters here in your family. You do not need your sister in your life and with any luck she will then turn on another family member. I would leave them to it and disengage yourself entirely from them; your parents and siblings all sound as bad as each other.

I would also urge you to stay in therapy and explore further your fear, obligation and guilt re these people. Do read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

What was your childhood like and what was it like for you growing up within such a family?.

So my sisters children are between 15 years old and 2, spread out evenly. My brothers similar but his eldest is 18.

So about 4 years ago, at the end of Christmas I mentioned that I was going to stop buying presents. It was like I had just killed the family dog. Loads of tears and I was then accused of ruining the whole of the holidays. So I restarted.

For the children I spent around 20 quid, which makes it 25 quid by the time you send it. For the adults, I spend up to 50 or 60 but then it was over 100 for her latest one.

So since lockdown (I used it as an excuse because I couldn't get to the shops) I have put a tenner in an envelope. For me though, I know at the other end my sister will be unhappy. She once proclaimed that one of the presents I bought looked like it had been picked up in a garage service station. I do feel a bit of guilt that i'm not making an effort and as someone said, its not their fault .. its their mums.

But I cant help but feel she is teaching them the same lack of values that she has. The children never message to say thanks, they don't care. They just have all these toys and are spoilt. (Especially as because they have two sets of parents due to my sister splitting)

Its not about the monetary value as much... I'm a guy in my 30s ... Its really hard knowing what children of different ages want. I'm fortunate that I working a very well paid job, I am careful with my money and invest for the future. She is the opposite - more than happy to rely on other people, wants the latest fashions and gadgets. In someway i wonder whether this is more than just about the presents ...

Just stop... stop explaining why, too. If pushed, just say she had her last present, and you hope she loved it.

My situation is quite similar in many respects. I have stopped buying birthday presents for my nieces as they are never acknowledged. Like you, if I get a card or present from my sister it is weeks after the event. She seems completely incapable of sending a card or present in time. Like you, she recently visited my area but made no attempt to see me. It is really hurtful. Don’t feel obliged to buy any present for anyone any longer. Send a card if you want to, and leave it at that. Your sister is behaving very hurtfully. It must surely be intentional too.

Hi StokKangri

re your comment:-
"Loads of tears and I was then accused of ruining the whole of the holidays. So I restarted".

So their emotional blackmail worked then. That was their plan all along. They've been doing this to you their entire lives, your family of origin all sound as bad as one another. They really do want power and control over you and you're still seen as the scapegoat within the family.

And you are right re your sister's children too:-
"But I cant help but feel she is teaching them the same lack of values that she has. The children never message to say thanks, they don't care. They just have all these toys and are spoilt. (Especially as because they have two sets of parents due to my sister splitting)"

Give your time and effort instead to people who do care and respect you as a person so not these people. It really is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way.

They don't seem to have any regard for you OP, so believe me, they don't deserve to have any from you. How much more are you prepared to take? Just because they are family, doesn't mean you have to be involved with them.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Your message is very powerful - and I agree with what you say. I think deep down I know this, but I have failed to ever accept it.

Some maybe to add some more context (sorry to drip feed but until what Atilla said, I guess I didn't think it was important). So I'm from a working class background - no money growing up, Dad worked exceptionally long hours. But at the age of 7 a benefactor offered my parents an opportunity - my brother and I went off to be schooled elsewhere and my sister remained at home. My brother soon failed and moved back - I had a hard time at first but then excelled. I stuck at it, it was so bloody hard. I was the first person in my family to go to University and I did well. My parents couldn't afford to support me - I worked summers and killed myself to earn enough to scrape by. I got a decent job, bought my own house, bought another and away I went. The rest of my family have never really had any money. My parents only became financially stable when they inherited around 10 years ago.

I think my parents feel guilty and are maybe overcompensating somewhat. Maybe they feel that I've got everything. My brother struggles to make ends meet and is always asking for help. Deep down he is a good person though.

My own relationship with my wife is breaking down - somewhat because its lacking intimacy and passion and I think I'm scared to bring children into it. My parents argued a lot growing up, but have mellowed in recent years. But I've never seen much intimacy or physical love there. Ironically my own breakdown has brought me a little bit closer to my parents. But thats not been without its issues. When I initially told them I was struggling, they just asked that I dont turn out like some of the other family members who have had bad mental illnesses. I forgive them, as I just know its not spiteful to say that and they just cant cope dealing with emotional burden I guess

Ask her if she received it? That should provoke a thanks
Then going forward say you will no longer be giving or receiving gifts say it's because of waste / the planet etc. Rather than bad relationship But maybe say you will be paying for days out together odd treats fir the kids to keep relationships going ?

I don't like my sister, but she is my sister. Two reasons, first I have told her stuff in confidence and within a day has then gone on to tell other people. I cant trust her. Secondly, she is manipulative - there is always an agenda

My own sister to a tee. Highly manipulative and never agenda free. The rest is different. I made a long term decision a while ago that my relationship with my sister has a shelf life, my Mum is 70+ and for her sake I will not force her to "choose sides" at various "family times" throughout the year, but if I had it my way we would not have a relationship.

Scale back the gifts and you don't need to justify why, just do it

There's no worse feeling than feeling like you aren't wanted for yourself just for what you buy/might buy and then feeling that's all you're "kept around for" completely transactional

Instead of saying "I want to scale back gifts" have you tried the truth?

"I don't really mind buying everyone gifts, but sometimes I feel that my Debit Card is the only thing Certain People have any interest in about me and it hurts"

So, as a single parent and always strapped for cash, my bro and then SinL said just by for their kids - the had 2 to my 1, they were far more well off than I. Decent of them, but still got them something as they always got me something and I figured that they were worth the thanks for all the free babysitting. Then they split up, I continued to send a card and give a gift to exSIL for next couple of years but never got so much as a card back, neither did my son. I've continued to give preasants to my 2 nephews regardless, until they were 21. My son is 16, never had a Birthday preasant or card off Bro, or ex since they split 7 years ago. Sometimes people are just thoughtless. Bro gave me the money to get french windows put in at the back of my house, so he's not tight, just feel sorry for my son really, though he doesn't seem bothered.

...so your sister didn't even get a chance at a decent education, whereas both of her brothers did? That goes a long way to explain the resentment IMO. I'm assuming she wasn't worth educating, as she's just a girl?

Could you talk more about it with your therapist about it maybe? It’s interesting that they have had the women in your life have failed you so maybe that needs to be explored more. Your therapist may recommend how to move forward with them if that’s what you want. I’d be tempted to say to them that you feel all they want is gifts from you rather than a real relationship and explain you’re not saying that to hurt them but it’s how you feel and see how they respond to that?

Stop letting her pull your strings. Why should you spend hundreds on her? Just stop then stop talking to her. You owe her nothing, neither your money nor your emotional well-being.

My own relationship with my wife is breaking down - somewhat because its lacking intimacy and passion and I think I'm scared to bring children into it. My parents argued a lot growing up, but have mellowed in recent years. But I've never seen much intimacy or physical love there. Ironically my own breakdown has brought me a little bit closer to my parents.

This is all that matters. Keep looking inside to work out what your own internal original childhood emotional wounds are so that you can focus on healing these once and for all. Otherwise you will leave this RS and continue to limp along and trip up emotionally repeatedly.

Your sister and gifting is an irrelevant distraction. Who is to say that she (and your DB) didn’t benefit much more than you emotionally by not being uprooted out of their home and community just to be educated.

The most successful child is the happiest emotionally stable and contented adult - not the one with the biggest bank balance.

Keep investing in your own MH and issues to be resolved.