Husband and I don’t agree on Covid boundaries

[robinhoodswife]

Hello, hoping to get some external perspective on husband’s approach to life during Covid.

Some context:

He has always been a very cautious type whereas I am more relaxed. He is very close to his parents and from a small family, has no friends and doesn’t find socialising enjoyable. I am very sociable and come from a big family. We are literally the definition of opposites attract!

We have a 2yo daughter and before Covid were pretty happy together, however it has exposed the fact we do not share the same boundaries around health and risk.

Currently we are not (due to his views)

• letting anyone visit or stay in our home
• visiting his parents at all (they live nearby)
• visiting any relatives at all

In the summer I had enough so went to stay at a friends empty house so I could visit my parents without staying in their home. He didn’t want to come with me and my daughter, so he just met us for the day (a 4 hour round trip for him). I respected his boundaries on Covid but felt I needed to get away and wasn’t doing any illegal or stupid. It was really hard watching him drive off and leave us the day he came to visit, I felt like we were emotionally divorced at that point.

I want to send our daughter to nursery a couple of mornings a week, she is so ready for it and I worry being at home all the time with me and not seeing any family isn’t healthy. He came to look round Nursery options with me but when it came to signing up had lots of objections including risk of Covid and saying that we were palming her off on other people so we could work which he didn’t feel comfortable with. He comes from a family of women that stopped their careers and devoted everything to care for children but knows I am career driven and not like that.

I am exasperated and exhausted. I am not doing anything against the guidelines and whilst I respect his comfort zones to an extent I feel suffocated and powerless by his extreme take on things.

His parents are very risk adverse Insular people who have decided to shield completely and I feel he is heavily influenced by their ideas and fears.

I want to go and visit my family who all live 2+ hrs away and he doesn’t think we should stay anywhere, that it is too risky. I want to take a short break to help us get a bit of a break from the stresses of life but he has objected.

He goes to the shops and will go somewhere like a National Trust, he will use the facilities and eat out etc. I feel confused and hopeless in my marriage. I love him so much and he is a really wonderful guy in so many ways but has this side I find truly baffling. I’ve told him how I feel and that it is causing me great distress and making me resent him, but I don’t feel he is listening.

Has anyone else experienced a difference of opinion in how to live your life in Covid?

I would have to read up on the guidelines but I don't think it's legal to visit your parents. You could go out for a meal with them or something, or I think stay at a hotel nearby. (Obviously all this is assuming you're not in an area with extra rules. I do find it's hard to get the current rules to sink into my head maybe, and could be wrong.)

I agree that he's too cautious about your daughter going to nursery, and part of it is kind of controlling as he's expecting you not to work much etc.

There are laws and you should follow them, but if he proposes more than that you can ignore him.

How do you feel about him/the marriage in general? He doesn't sound much fun all round.

I’ve told him how I feel and that it is causing me great distress and making me resent him, but I don’t feel he is listening.

The thing is, if he believes what he believes then even if he is hearing what you say, he's not going to change what he's doing as he believes he's doing the right thing and thinks there's no alternative.

Think about it in terms of increasing risk.

If you are a supermarket worker in contact with people all day, going into a pub isn't going to increase your risk much at all.

If you work from home and get shopping delivered, then going into someone else's house is a huge increase in risk.

Could that be how he thinks? That you have the opportunity to be a really low risk household, but you want to do things that hugely increase the risk (even though that's still a low risk)?

What had you discussed about nursery and your job before you had your DC? I’d be more worried about that than his approach about covid. If he’s so bothered then suggest he goes part time or stops work to look after your DD. Is he expecting you not to work until she’s in school?
In terms of covid it’s a really difficult one; I was more anxious than DH and more risk averse which he went with but we were both desperate to see family so have been relaxed about seeing family in our or their home. In all honesty I think I would be saying that I’m going to see family with or without him as I don’t see why he gets the final decision about what you do as a family if he’s not listening to you.
Also not sure why PP said you can’t visit your parents; unless in a local lockdown area then of course you can

I think there could be a couple of things going on here:

1. he's massively worried about Covid and has a very different perception of the risk to you, so he's finding it difficult that you're going out and about - this is the situation in my house and we're doing a lot of compromising.

Or 2) he is a controlling dick and he is using the current situation to control you even further: his comments about nursery/working or not working seem to bear this out. Was he happy socialising with you before Covid? has he tried to distance you from his family and friends?

The nursery/work thing is very out there - is he saying 'we didn't have DC to leave them in childcare so I'm thinking about going part time?' (I bet he isn't, I bet he's expecting this to fall squarely on your shoulders...)

He’s being VU and possibly sexist on childcare: is he offering to do the parenting AND work all week? If not, why does he expect you to?

What risk does he think there is to your child? All the evidence suggests that him driving your child to a National Trust place for the day is more risky than them catching covid. As this affects your child's potential life opportunities I think you're going to have to stand up to him.

Also not sure why PP said you can’t visit your parents;

@user1493413286 Ah ok it looks like nationally it's something like you can only meet as 6 people maximum indoors. This number includes children. I'm in Birmingham so it's even more confusing.

He goes to the shops and will go somewhere like a National Trust, he will use the facilities and eat out etc.

@robinhoodswife Venues are considered safer than homes etc as they have to have measures in place, and they can space people out a bit more.

His thing about childcare does sound sexist though, unless he's volunteering to do the work.

@picklemewalnuts

Think about it in terms of increasing risk.

If you are a supermarket worker in contact with people all day, going into a pub isn't going to increase your risk much at all.

If you work from home and get shopping delivered, then going into someone else's house is a huge increase in risk.

Could that be how he thinks? That you have the opportunity to be a really low risk household, but you want to do things that hugely increase the risk (even though that's still a low risk)?

This is not how risk works at all!

Each incident/choice/activoty increases your risk, however risky your baseline set by e.g. work

I’m sorry OP, but he does sound desperately wet.
Does he need a safety assessment before changing a lightbulb?
He has a successful future ahead of him as a Covid Marshall.

Swan it's not now risk works, but it's how an increase in risk works.

For me to go to a pub multiplies my risk many times, as I have few encounters otherwise. For a teacher to go to a pub is a negligible increase.

So I wouldn't go to a pub because it's an unnecessary and huge increase in my personal risk. If I were a teacher, I would. I'd have nothing to lose.

You absolutely CAN visit your parents and you should. As long as you are abiding by the guidelines and there aren’t more than 6 people gathered together. He will go and use national trust facilities but don’t go to your parents house? That’s weird to be honest, over zealous, suffocating, not necessary. Let’s face it, unless your parents are taking a course at university or working in a hospital, your chance of catching anything from them are practically zero. You’ve probably got more chance of being struck by lightning. I think you need to print off the rules and highlight the relevant passages and give it to him. The govt don’t want us becoming weird hermits who never see anybody. What they want is for everyone to use common sense. These draconian rules are because they’ve got to deal with people like university freshers so it has to be simple and understandable for stupid people to understand. Going to see your family who are normal people doing normal things is fine. Everyone needs to calm down and be sensible. Your husband is not being normal and it’s worrying. Put your child in nursery and go back to work. The last thing you want is to be reliant on somebody who isn’t logical or sensible. You don’t really sound compatible to be honest

I don't think he is being particularly unreasonable about covid tbh. I wouldn't go and stay in someone else's house right now either tbh - it isn't necessary and it just increases the risk. You're obviously much more relaxed in your approach, but it doesn't mean that you're right and he's wrong.

I do think he is unreasonable if he expects you to quit work and look after your dc, however. He doesn't get to decide that.

@picklemewalnuts

Swan it's not now risk works, but it's how an increase in risk works.

For me to go to a pub multiplies my risk many times, as I have few encounters otherwise. For a teacher to go to a pub is a negligible increase.

So I wouldn't go to a pub because it's an unnecessary and huge increase in my personal risk. If I were a teacher, I would. I'd have nothing to lose.

It doesn't multiply your risk.

A think is a risk. Another thing is a risk. Another thing is a risk. They add up, they don't multiply.

If you work in e.g. a supermarket for three shifts of six hours you have half the risk of someone who does six shifts of six hours. But if each goes to the pub on a Sunday they each add the same additional risk.

In fact the person who has high risk work should really be more cautious the rest of the time, to try to keep their total risk down where possible.

You don't need his permission to stay with your parents (which, unless they're particularly reckless, is probably far safer than tea at a National Trust cafe where the tables get a half-hearted swipe of anti-whatever between customers).
You can't change him - he sounds a complete drip! - but don't let him shrink your world. If he thinks you're germ-ridden when you come home, there's always the spare room (for him, not you). Life is not risk-free and never will be.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, swan. There's no real way to quantify actual risk at the moment, so I'm using random numbers.

If I stay home my risk is minimal. Say 1.
If i work in a school my risk is far higher. Say 10.

Going to the pub for an evening is an added risk of, say, 5.

Going from 1 to 6 is a much bigger increase in risk for me than going from 10 to 15.

It's 5 points more for both, but as a proportion of increased risk it's huge for the person with low risk.

I'm not saying that's how everyone sees/calculate/interprets risk, but it's not a wrong way of perceiving your own risk.

I agree with pickleme. I'm not a Covid denier at all but I do object hugely to the idea that I can surround myself with teenagers at work, but can't see my partner who lives alone and WFH (in NE with additional local measures). If I am already in a "high risk" environment for work, why can't I enjoy my downtime? Most importantly, why can't I make that choice for myself? OP, is his objection genuine fear of the virus or fear of rule breaking? I've no real advice other than to talk to him. It was ok to be OTT when it was shortish term with an end point, but not now. I'd be framing the talk in terms of a long term strategy of living with this, not hiding from it - maybe show him the research in the Times today about the miniscule risk of transmission from touching surfaces.

@picklemewalnuts

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, swan. There's no real way to quantify actual risk at the moment, so I'm using random numbers.

If I stay home my risk is minimal. Say 1.
If i work in a school my risk is far higher. Say 10.

Going to the pub for an evening is an added risk of, say, 5.

Going from 1 to 6 is a much bigger increase in risk for me than going from 10 to 15.

It's 5 points more for both, but as a proportion of increased risk it's huge for the person with low risk.

I'm not saying that's how everyone sees/calculate/interprets risk, but it's not a wrong way of perceiving your own risk.

I do understand I believe, but you used the word 'multiply' originally. Now you are using the word 'increase'.

What matters is overall risk.

So going from 1 to 6 is better than going from 10 to 15.

If I was at 10, I would be wise to stay there - and have more need to be cautious. The additional 5 is too much perhaps.

If I am already in a "high risk" environment for work, why can't I enjoy my downtime?

You can, in doing so you are increasing the risks further.

People in higher risk professions are higher risk. Teachers are, IMO, at higher risk and that makes them higher risk to others.

I wanted part time school.for this reason.

My children are now higher risk than they were in the summer holidays. So we are doing less now to prevent them passing it on to others.

Thank you so much all - I am so grateful for your perspective.

Before we had DD we discussed me looking after her at home for a while before doing freelancing which I now do. I think he has always had a very out there opinion on things like this because of his rather bizarre mother. She is ex school teacher in late 60’s (so did all of this a very long time ago herself) who thinks nursery is for parents who think work is more important than children. I know. I know. I have to navigate life with this crazy bunch and I don’t know how much more I can take.

I have had numerous discussions with him about his decision to put his fears of covid and this kind of “family edict” of deciding to all avoid each other in case they make each other ill (to the extent where they say things like “I don’t want to visit Nanna just in case I pass something on and she dies because of me”. I have explained to him that your chances are so slim you’ll do more damage to yourselves by all choosing to “do the right thing” and in doing so destroy your connection as a family and mental health.

To be honest I have seriously considered the future of the marriage, I can’t see how as you say long term this will work out if he doesn’t relax a little on this. He is a massive drip Katy because he will not dare to stand up to his mother or do anything that goes against the bizarre family rules he has set.

Too right, I shouldnt let this be his decision - I am going to visit family and get the hell out of here for a weekend with DD. Maybe some time apart will help him gain some perspective. My biggest fear is that he will never hear me and always default to his “principles” at all costs - including our 10 year relationship and 5 year marriage.