Would Anti-Masker / CV19 skepticism be a deal breaker

[HaggisBurger]

This is I think a relationship Q tho relates to CV19.

I’m in the process of trying to repair a nearly broken 21 year marriage that reached crisis pt last year due to lack of physical & Emotional intimacy on my DH’s part & lack of decent & honest communication on both our parts.

Things have improved on all fronts after some very difficult conversations, marriage therapy (ongoing - DH only really agreed when he was saw I was in the actual point of leaving...he’d refused before)

He’s very rigid in his thinking and has become increasingly right wing over the years (Brexit was difficult as we were leave / remain but I respected his democratic right to his own view). But the pandemic has added extra strain. At start he was arsey about moving properly to give people 2m. He’s never worn a mask and has a lanyard saying he’s exempt (he claims it would cause him severe emotional distress - bullshit - which makes me so cross for victims of abuse and rape etc). He spends significant amounts of time on Covidskeptics. Org and quotes endless “data” from Carl Henighan (who I think is a respected doctor but always seems to be in the Telegraph & the Spectator) about false positives etc etc. He’s not a Covid denier & not quite a conspiracy theorist - but he is almost obsessional in his belief that the benefit of lockdown is outweighed by the cost etc (in terms of economy etc). I find it deeply unattractive, contrarian, unkind and also arrogant (like he knows better than scientists etc). It makes me question saving the marriage. He was also slightly Verbally aggressive yesterday when I suggested we may need to get one of ours sons tested as he had a cough. He’s not normally aggressive.

Am I being unreasonable in questioning whether this affects my long terms ability to live with this man? He may he slightly on the spectrum I’d say (due to family history and behaviour of other diagnosed family members).

@Sssloou

I have seen this middle aged man thing where they become increasingly contrary, obsessive, self righteous and intolerable with a few people I know - before you know it you will be married to Victor Meldrew - and that’s on a good day.

Your concern that he will be a v difficult person to separate from is your answer.

You are in an emotional prison with no bars.

Plan and plot your way out. No rush. Research. Investigate. Fantasise.

There are 9 types of intelligence - your DH lucked out genetically on the academic one and has had the opportunity to apply this to a career. This is fine but doesn’t deserve a round of applause and doesn’t trump kindness and respect for his family and society.

Watch and wait. You are not imagining any of this.

Thanks @Sssloou - I feel quite tearful reading your response.

Thanks to everyone for responding - even those that speed read and think I’m dating him (now THAT would be an easy decision) or that he doesn’t believe Covid exists. 😉

His father was a deeply deeply unpleasant man - particularly in old age. It saddens me beyond all measure to think of him heading in that direction.

Your husband sounds like a bit of an arse but as an isolated issue I do think there is a valid discussion to be had about the pros and cons of lockdown, tbh.

OP said her husband was not a covid denier.

Has he always been obsessive and rigid in his ways? Has he always lacked empathy and have you always suspected he's ASD? There is no sliding scale it's a spectrum.

He's not stupid, you said he's highly intelligent, yet something like this covid situation could aggravate traits that he normally has under control. have you noticed his triggers over the years?

Is he doing as much to make this marriage work as you are, if you really think about it? Whether he is an anti masker or CV19 skeptic wouldnt be an issue for some people. However if you find his behaviour deeply unattractive, unkind and arrogant then how can you stay?

Me and my DH have the same values and morals but were opposite on Brexit, we had a debate but then effectively cancelled each others vote. We have some conflicting views on covid, lockdown and the economy but can disagree with each other without it becoming unattractive.

Now if my DH became right wing then I wouldnt live with him, everyone has their breaking point.

@WakingUp55643

Similar situation here. Not so much with the Covid thing, although he's very much on the side of keeping the economy going above everything else, it's more general politics. Like you *@HaggisBurger* I am 100% Remain and he is 100% Leave. It's not the difference of opinion that gets to me, everyone has their own thoughts, but it was the way he celebrated the 'win' back on referendum night, knowing how upset I was, and has pretty much continued obsessively ever since. He was also a Trump supporter, although seems to see what an idiot he is now, he's a Tory, a fan of weirdos like Peterson and Shapiro, and he thinks Farage is the greatest. I can't stand it. I too am trying to find a way out.

So sorry that you are in a similar situation @WakingUp55643 😢. My DH wasn’t proTrump per se but he was deeply anti Hillary in ways I felt had a deep hidden core of misogyny. I hope you find a way out. Being married to a Farage fan is no way to live for sure ....

I agree that the issue of how strict measures should be is something intelligent people can discuss. However ...

At start he was arsey about moving properly to give people 2m. He’s never worn a mask
You can think it's a bad idea, but still be empathetic enough to understand that other people are anxious and that your own behaviour may frighten them. Then you can choose whether you will humour them to assuage their fears slightly, or whether it's more important to you to show what a clever chap you are.

has a lanyard saying he’s exempt (he claims it would cause him severe emotional distress
Clever people can also choose whether they want to be liars or not. Personally, I'm not that keen on liars.

he is almost obsessional in his belief that the benefit of lockdown is outweighed by the cost etc
I wonder about this sometimes, but I still wouldn't want to be with someone whose obsession seems to be related to proving that he's smarter than everyone else.

But basically, even if he was a super wonderful, kind and loving guy, that would be outweighed by the fact that you simply don't get on with him or like him very much any more.

Sounds like he is arrogant and lacking in any empathy. Going through a divorce would be a nightmare but so might another 30 years with him.

@BessieSurtees - he’s always been over literal and lacking in empathy I guess. But kind and thoughtful in other ways. The rigid thinking has been more noticeable over the last 5 years I’d say.

It’s an interesting question about whether he’s making the same level of effort as me to save the marriage. I’d say on balance that whilst he is “trying” and really wants us to stay together, the actual action and initiation comes from me. He just responds to it. Sometimes that response feels very much like a chore he’s got to attend to or a box he needs to tick. It doesn’t feel spontaneous or coming from a place of desire.

I defended his right to vote leave as I do believe in democracy and freedom of speech. Kind of like you describe your relationship with your DH. This latest stuff just feels like a step too far as there is real derision for those of us who don’t agree and comments wondering aloud why women seem more compliant with masks etc.

comments wondering aloud why women seem more compliant with masks etc.
Have you asked him what his theory is?

Does he think women are more compliant or subservient or dim, even? Sounds like a right misogynist. Women were always traditionally the carers and took care of health matters in families. Maybe that’s why some understand better. We also normally have others we are actively caring for - whether older or younger.

You can easily be in a great relationship with someone who has opposite views and politics to you
But not with someone who wants is aggressive or lacks respect for you
If it's not fun to be with him you don't need a good reason, you can just leave him

It would put me off. Sounds really stupid and also lacking in common sense and critical thinking skills.

Yes, definitely. “Increasingly right wing over the years” would be a dealbreaker. It’s important for a partner to share my values (and I’m a scientist, so it’s important they are just a science denying idiot too).

Deal breaker. Do you really want to live with this? Go find someone who has the same views as you and have a happy life

I’m in the process of trying to repair a nearly broken 21 year marriage

Why though? I can't see any positives for you here in staying with him (unless it's difficult to leave for financial purposes).

He's putting your life at risk as well as being a twat. I'd want him Covid Denying in another house personally.

Interestingly the whole 'we don't need to wear masks' thing is also shared by the very left wing who see it as some form of discrimination against those that 'can't' and have done kind of disability. Lots of chat about they don't work there too.

I think he will be able to make an effort for a few weeks then will go back to who he is. So youl probably split anywsy - just make sure he doesn't give you Covid in the meantime.

Also no empathy or kindness would be it for me. No matter how 'intelligent'

I'm a firm believer that the cure shouldn't be worse than the disease also!

I'm not in the UK but would have voted for BREXIT. I would vote to leave if my country wanted out too.

I wonder are you sometimes just as pushy with your opinion as he is, which makes him fight back and be more defiant and annoying about his beliefs.

It's notable that even though you have said he's not a covid denier people keep calling him a covid denier. It's something i've noticed a lot in any threads on various forums since lockdown began. Anyone who questions anything about whether it's the right thing to do is called names or accused of wanting to kill off the elderly or so on. It's childish and lazy arguing and designed to shut people up...some people will react to that with the same style of arguing!

You say he lacks empathy but I feel that sometimes people on the lockdown and more severe restrictions side appear to lack empathy just as much. They can only see the people vulnerable to covid and the deaths that they can maybe prevent, but they don't empathise with the others who may die or have their lives ruined because of this cure! It's very black and white thinking!

People who may be sceptical about certain things don't all share the same personality traits and can't all be pigeonholed into the same category.

It sounds like your marriage is over anyway, of course if you're living with someone with different political views and views on how covid should be handled then there will more reasons to clash and dislike the other persons personality!

@WeeMadArthur

OP from what you have said I think his views are getting more unacceptable to you over time. How bad do you think he will be in 5 more years, or 10 or 20? Do you really want to be stuck with him for the rest of your life? I think it’s really telling that he wouldn’t consider therapy until he could see you were virtually out of the door. If he cared about you he would go when you first said you were unhappy and wanted to go to therapy, not as a last ditch attempt to stop you leaving.

You don’t have to leave immediately, it must be difficult untangling your lives with 4 children involved, but you should start to plan your way out. I don’t think you could be happy in a relationship with him if he carries on like this, or gets worse. You can leave simply because living with him doesn’t make you happy any more, it doesn’t have to be some big dramatic Eastenders style life threatening drama to justify you leaving. Life doesn’t have to be intolerable before you throw in the towel.

Fantastic advice here I 100% agree

@user1481840227

I'm a firm believer that the cure shouldn't be worse than the disease also!

I'm not in the UK but would have voted for BREXIT. I would vote to leave if my country wanted out too.

I wonder are you sometimes just as pushy with your opinion as he is, which makes him fight back and be more defiant and annoying about his beliefs.

It's notable that even though you have said he's not a covid denier people keep calling him a covid denier. It's something i've noticed a lot in any threads on various forums since lockdown began. Anyone who questions anything about whether it's the right thing to do is called names or accused of wanting to kill off the elderly or so on. It's childish and lazy arguing and designed to shut people up...some people will react to that with the same style of arguing!

You say he lacks empathy but I feel that sometimes people on the lockdown and more severe restrictions side appear to lack empathy just as much. They can only see the people vulnerable to covid and the deaths that they can maybe prevent, but they don't empathise with the others who may die or have their lives ruined because of this cure! It's very black and white thinking!

People who may be sceptical about certain things don't all share the same personality traits and can't all be pigeonholed into the same category.

It sounds like your marriage is over anyway, of course if you're living with someone with different political views and views on how covid should be handled then there will more reasons to clash and dislike the other persons personality!

@user1481840227 I am certainly articulate and can have string opinions. But I lack the arrogance of saying that I can interpret data and science better than SAGE etc. Bottom line is - I’m not an epidemiologist (and neither is DH - nor any form of scientist) so I am “happy” to take the measures suggested as a compassionate way of being.

I do get that there are other view points and defend people’s right to have them. But it’s the arrogant and sometimes sneering / superior way it’s presented. I know I don’t do that. If anything I am more likely to say I just don’t know what the answer to all this is.

I do think though that the possibility of our marriage snd way of life ending may have contributed to DH’s fixation in this. Ironically a feeling this is something he can “control” (whaaaaat - he cant control a global pandemic!?!) but certainly the defiant non mask wearing etc could be linked to that.

You have to decide if these are the views that you are happy for your DC to absorb or have to live a life biting their tongue in a tense atmosphere. They must have the opportunity to develop and articulate their own views and if they are scared to speak up or have to walk to eggshells to accommodate tense and negative opinions then this will really stunt how they feel able to take their place in society with other adults and people in authority.

I think you need to consider that you may well have your FIL on your hands.