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Original poster

A question on behalf of my friend.

26 replies

jojo38 · 18/10/2004 22:23

My friend is single with two ds's 14 and 11. The father hasn't seen them for 8yrs, his choice.
My friend wants to take them on holiday to mexico next year and has been told that the father has to sign a document of consent.

My friend contacted her ex last week for the first time in 8 years... He told her to f off and that she only calls when she wants something!! In the background my friend heard a female voice saying "Get a life you fing bitch!". My friend has NEVER met this woman or knows what she looks like even!! This has shocked my friend to the core! The woman rang back - told my friend that she was so and so's wife and told my friend to leave them alone.

All my mate wants is x to sign a form... that is all. No contact for 8 years... he is married etc... so what do you reckon is the problem here?

She has been advised to go to the court for an order but she doesn't know his address - only a contact number. (Medical/legal reasons only)

I can say one positive with this... my friend had a hang up about her ex... still thought she loved him. Now she has closure... she knows now that she can move on from him. I am soooo pleased for that at least.

Any advice on the other would be gratefully recieved... thanks ladies.

OP posts:
Hulababy · 18/10/2004 22:25

Surely someone like BT would be able to provide the address for the telephone numbers - not to your friend but to a court. So hopefully lack of address shpuldn't have to hold her back.

Sounds horrid.

MummyToSteven · 18/10/2004 22:28

what about the BT directory enquiries website - has she tried putting his name and town on there to see if she can get his address that way if he is in the directory?

coppertop · 18/10/2004 22:30

Could she try the electoral register if she knows the town?

coppertop · 18/10/2004 22:32

Also some/most solicitors offices employ private detectives to find out these things.

jampot · 18/10/2004 22:37

I think it depends on whether he has parental responsibility doesn't it (maybe not). Either way if she has to serve anything on him I think it can be done at the last known address. 8 years is a pretty long time.

Easy · 18/10/2004 22:53

JoJo
I'm not an expert, but if he has had no contact with the children for 8 yearsd, then I think she can claim he has no parental responsibility.

She needs to see a solicitor who specialises in family law. If she desn't know one, try the Citizens Advice Bureau.

She shoulkdn't be messed about like this any longer.
Do see a solicitor and be honest about what has happened in the 'relationship' so far.

Easy · 18/10/2004 22:59

BUT .....

JoJo, you have posted the same kind of advice I've given here on Betty Boos thread.

Is something going on here?

Original poster
jojo38 · 19/10/2004 23:11

No hun, I just wanted to get some outside advice, other than my own. I have given my friend similar advice but needed it confirmed. Nothing going on. I know a fair bit about law but not enough to be 100% confident in this area.

Thanks again everyone for your advice. I will let her know. I should hear from her tomorrow. I will let you know how it went.

OP posts:
bonym · 20/10/2004 21:14

I could be completely wrong, but can't understand why she has to get his consent to take her kids on hols. I am separated from dd's father and dh and I take her on hols all the time without even telling him most of the time - it has never been an issue. He knows that we take her away and doesn't seem concerned. If there is no contact, how would he even know that she had gone on hols? Who is going to ask to see consent?

MarmaladeSun · 21/10/2004 10:29

Hmm...not sure but I think for holidays she doesn't need consent. When I was seperated from DH1 I took the kids on hols to the Falkland Islands (DH2 is in the army) and didn't need their Dad's permission. It was only when we moved to Germany that I had to have his written consent as it was permanent and not just a holiday.

tammybear · 21/10/2004 10:32

I think its because he has parental responsibility. As far as I know, if he has it, she's not allowed to take the children out of the country without his consent, which is just ridiculous if he hasn't been in contact for 8 years. Has she explained that to the courts?

bonym · 21/10/2004 14:29

Yes, but my ex-dh has parental responsibility and I've never had his consent.

Twinkie · 21/10/2004 14:32

We took DD this year - me and DP - DD has a differnt name to both of us as my passport still in my maiden name and obviously DD has her fathers name and not DPs - she should just book it and take them if he hasn't had contact for 8 years he wouldn;t even know.

Who is asking for the consent??

tammybear · 21/10/2004 14:39

Who asked her for consent from the father jojo? How long is she going for?

TurnAgainCat · 21/10/2004 17:15

Unfortunately, this can be a problem even where the parents weren't married and he never had parental responsibility - I think it does not arise when the father is not named on the birth certificate. I had this issue when I was told (by some stupid idiot civil servant whom they later agreed was totally wrong) that I needed xp's consent to take ds to overseas when I applied for a short-term work permit. Luckily, the organisation sponsoring me was v helpful. It turned out the secretary was divorced and she completely understood, and she contacted him, and told him he had to give a letter of consent, very matter of factly. So, I now have this typed letter which he has signed in front of a solicitor (who then signed it and stamped it with her firm's rubber stamp!) saying he never married me and he could not care less where I take ds anywhere in the world for any period of time. I know that this has little or no legal effect, and I have never been asked to produce it although we have travelled a lot. However, the FCO website now carries a warning for nearly everywhere that single parents will have to produce evidence for various countries that they are entitled to travel with the child - this is rubbish since until very recently only the mother had parental responsibility in English law. I regard this silly document as our "unmarriage certificate" for showing to silly officials. I wonder whether he would ever have given me this unmarriage certificate if I had put my CSA claim in before he was asked! Perhaps that is the last and only card that your friend has left to play in the game he is still playing?

Original poster
jojo38 · 22/10/2004 10:30

This is such an awful time for my mate. She has had to contact her ex for consent so that she can take her children (who HE hasn't seen/had contact with for 8yrs) to Mexico on holiday. This has opened old wounds for her and is in such a state over it.
The law can be an ass. Dh and I were just talking about that area last night!

My mate and her ex were married, so I believe he has PR??? This is where I am confused... if he hasnt' seen them for 8 yrs (and not refused contact by mum) then has he relinquished his PR??

Thanks for your comments so far. Much appreciated. {{{hugs}}}

OP posts:
TurnAgainCat · 22/10/2004 11:15

I'm not an expert on these laws, but I think that if they were married then he automatically has parental responsibility and he has a legal right to object if she takes the children away. Has she got a residence order in her name etc from when they got divorced? Has she shown these documents to the person who says that she needs his consent? On the other hand, these laws are really about stopping child abduction, not stopping parents having holidays. Is she going with a tour group? Is this still going to be a problem for her even if it is obvious that she is just going on holiday and not running away and emigrating? Has someone given her a copy of the document he is supposed to sign? If the worst comes to the worst, she may have to get a solicitor to write to him formally requesting that he does not unreasonably withhold his consent.

bonym · 22/10/2004 14:46

I am also confused now - Turnagaincat, are you saying that there is a possibility that I could be stopped at an airport and be asked for signed consent from dh's father - and could this also apply to him when he takes her on hols? This has never happened to either of us, but I am now concerned, from what you say that this could happen. Would be grateful for clarification please.

bonym · 22/10/2004 14:47

I mean dd's father of course! I don't think dh's father could care less where I take him

tammybear · 22/10/2004 14:53

lol bonym. as they were married, he automatically gets PR, but he can apply to renounce it if he wishes. Like turnagaincat said, its more about in case you were to run off with the kids abroad, and the other parent wasnt to know. i think she should say to the courts what has happened, and the courts may revoke his PR. Im not sure if they can do this, but as he hasnt had any contact for 8 years it may be a possibility especially if its hard on your friend jojo

TurnAgainCat · 22/10/2004 16:14

I don't want to alarm anyone, but I just prefer to have that silly letter from xp with me, because if you are going on holiday, you don't want to be missing the plane and having a load of stress and hassle with foreign immigration officials, and then going all around the houses to prove that legally they were wrong, by which time your plane has left and you and your kids are probably crying from the stress of it all. We are going away over half term and I am taking a photocopy of ds's birth certificate and that silly letter with me as usual. I got terribly upset by all the hassle I had last time, not at the UK side, but at the other side.

MarmaladeSun · 22/10/2004 23:14

I had this out with my solicitor before I took the children to the Falklands. She told me that I did NOT need DHs permission to take the kids abroad ON HOLIDAY as if that were the case I would not be free to go on holiday without asking him and he should not have that kind of hold over me IYSWIM. (She put it much better than me!). However, if it were to be a longer trip, or a permanent trip then yes...I needed his permission. I just got him to write a letter and sign it which I have kept so he can never say I took them without his knowledge. HTH

ChicPea · 22/10/2004 23:39

The ex and ex's current wife sound very low on the food chain.

If it was me...I would forge the ex's signature. Why not? Are they going to check?

Can't understand fathers who don't want to see their children. Makes me feel very sad. Hope they have a good father figure to compensate.

Original poster
jojo38 · 22/10/2004 23:50

It all sounds a bit confusing. I contacted my friend yesterday. She went to solicitor. I think she has RO but as the new law is out now, and she is going to a place deemed to be a place where parents take their children away to hide or kidnap, everyone in her position has to have consent from the birth parent, whether is be mother or father.
He has said no, along with a few other bits of abuse, so the solicitor says that it can go to court for an order. Its costing her £500 !! She says she doesn't care, so long as he signs the bloody thing.
Sometimes I think the law hasn't got a bloody clue when it comes to things like this.

As soon as I speak to her on sunday, I will try to get some more answers and let you knw. Thanks for everything you have all mentioned so far. Good job I did ask then?
I would have been giving her duff info! Thanks again.

OP posts:
ChicPea · 22/10/2004 23:54

It might cost her £500 and he still refuses to sign it.

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