Doting aunt-to-be - but difficult relationship w/ sister-in-law

[Nunette]

My first niece or nephew is due next month and I am thrilled! I've always wanted to be an aunt.

Unfortunately while I'm close to my brother and he comes over to see his nieces regularly (I have a 1 & a 3 year old), my sister-in-law and I don't get along. No one's fault, really, we are just not compatible. We've even had the occasional fight in the past. I'd say we are cordial now. I'd love for us to try and be closer, especially for the sake of my daughters as she's their only aunt and we have a very small family (my husband has no living relatives except his grandmother who is very old), but she's holding off, and she has that right.

But I desperately don't want our incompatibility to affect my relationship with my niece or nephew. I would love to babysit, I would love to spoil them, and I would love for the cousins to be close. But if the pregnancy is anything to go by, this won't be easy. Of course it's been more difficult to stay in touch with covid, so it is not so strange we have seen SIL only once in the past 8 months, but she's also, for example, refused to accept any of the (pre-loved & new) stuff I offered her.

My brother - who is in a difficult position here - says we will make it work, and that it is also important to him that our families stay close. But I am very worried about this. What advice would you give me?

If you want to be kind, help your brother be a good husband and father.

@AnneLovesGilbert

Is she happy with him sharing as much with you as he does? Did she agree to you knowing she was pregnant within an hour of them finding out? I’d have been extremely pissed off with DH blabbing to someone I don’t particularly like.

I wonder if the lack of boundaries between her husband and his sister is adding to the feeling of wanting to make and maintain space she has.

I wondered the same thing. I'd be livid if I was her in this situation.

If you want to be kind, help your brother be a good husband and father.

There is little I can do there. I have no doubt they'll both be great parents and their relationship is very strong. Besides, like most parents, DH and I have no idea what we're doing (but it seems to be working so far).

Why did you post here? What were you hoping for? Because I’ve looked at your responses and apart from an initial general, thanks for the advice, you’ve denied and defended with each additional comment. There’s literally no self reflection, just annoyance we are being honest and giving the advice asked for. There’s a lot we can get from the tone of your responses and I’m not convinced you want a better relationship with your SIL. If you did, you’d take some honest brutal advice about it. All you’ve really done is ram home how close you are to your brother and what a great Aunt you want to be. Take a breath, consider, are you being a bit self absorbed? Are you a bit overbearing? Do you need to back off as literally everyone has suggested?
Even with the best of intentions, you might be making the divide greater right now and that won’t help anyone, least of all your brother.

Hmmmm. I have to be honest, OP, I think I might be the SIL in a different but similar situation. I have one child, SIL is trying for their first - she has strong ideas of what the cousins relationship is going to look like.
Here’s the rub - I don’t like her. She doesn’t like me. I’m never going to like her. Much like you, things are ‘cordial’. I would be pretty horrified to find out she harboured thoughts of building a relationship exclusive of me with my child - mainly because I’m not sending my child to be alone with someone I don’t like, whose parenting style is very different, and whose values I don’t agree with. That’s my bottom line. I’m gearing up for multiple awkward conversations when she does conceive because again, I’m not going to want to be besties with her when this happens. We are very seperate people. My best advice would be to let it be, I don’t think you’re going to get the outcome you want here.

Why did you post here? What were you hoping for? Because I’ve looked at your responses and apart from an initial general, thanks for the advice, you’ve denied and defended with each additional comment. There’s literally no self reflection, just annoyance we are being honest and giving the advice asked for.

You misread my tone - I am not annoyed at all. You are suggesting either my brother is lying to me, or my SIL is lying to my brother, but they are honestly just not the type of people to do so, so I am not sure how further to engage in conversation with you about this. I also don't want to openly reflect here on our past relationship and what happened between us because this is already quite a recognisable story. I don't think a breakdown of what I did and what she did, and my less charming qualities and her less charming qualities is going to help much, and it doesn't belong on a public forum on the internet, even with me being anonymous. Suffice to say: the rest of the family (including my and her parents) like us both, so there's no hatred, resentment, or single person at fault here.

I do realise people are going to fill stuff out and project their own feelings and experiences if I don't provide more details, and that's fine. I expected it, and some advice is still helpful. And I am considering everyone's points; sometimes they just really miss the mark (and again, it is to be expected).

I do realise people are going to fill stuff out and project their own feelings and experiences

Once again, people are responding to your own words. You cannot accept that, you’re finding reasons the replies are wrong. It’s your own words being responded to. Nobody has suggested lying, but people hear what they want to and it wouldn’t be uncommon for your brother to be telling you want you want to hear or to feel caught in between. You don’t know he doesn’t. People are suggesting things for you to consider, and you’re refusing to. Fine. You will never get close to your SIL or her children if this is your attitude. You’re not trying to see it any other way, despite the general consensus here being the same. That’s your choice. You were waiting for someone to validate you, you aren’t open to other views.

I’m feeling more sympathetic to the SIL as this goes on.

it wouldn’t be uncommon for your brother to be telling you want you want to hear or to feel caught in between.

It wouldn't be uncommon, but could you not imagine any situation in which this wasn't the case?

You think it is more conceivable that either my brother is lying to me about how the pregnancy is going, or that my SIL is lying to him about how she is feeling through it all, than accept - as I wrote - that SIL is actually having a really easy and carefree pregnancy and doing very well. I can see why - lots of people hide their true feelings. But you know, this really does happen. Some women enjoy pregnancy and some people aren't too worried about or affected by covid. I know I would have been very different because I tend to fret more.

You think it is more conceivable that either my brother is lying to me about how the pregnancy is going, or that my SIL is lying to him about how she is feeling No, it is totally conceivable your brother does not tell you every little thing. Honestly if you don’t want to look at this from a different angle, you shouldn’t have posted. You just sound a bit needy and unwilling to take a back seat in your brothers life. You should relax and see what happens with the new baby, their new baby. Whatever relationship occurs will follow from the one you have with the parents, both of them.

I’m feeling more sympathetic to the SIL as this goes on.

Is that relevant? Do you really think you know me and are qualified to judge me based on a few posts? It's a serious question - I am not offended. I guarantee that if I change my nick, start a new thread with something my SIL has done that would be 100% true, I could have you raging at her on my behalf and advise me to go low or no contact. And I am sure she could do the same without telling a single lie.

I came here for advice, not to be judged (or to have my SIL be judged), or I would have posted this to AIBU.

I think, my sense from your posts OP, is your relationship boundaries seem lower than hers. That's a real problem and won't work for you at all long term.

Honestly, I'd have issues with that if it was DH and his family. I can kind of sense what she's up against. I have had issues in the past with his family telling him what to do and him slotting in (because that's his lifelong habit of being organised by his sisters) without factoring in that it affected me too. They would organise get togethers for their parents, then just expect us to be there irrespective of whether the time suited us or we could afford the venue. I absolutely hated always feeling like I was the 'little girlfriend' who tagged along.

When I was pregnant, I was also handed clothes I didn't especially like or want "because it's so sweet to keep them in the family". Except they weren't 'family heirlooms'; it was stuff her kids had that she wanted worn again, and presumably, photos next to each other in the lounge of cousins in same clothes etc.

Everything changed when we actually had children. I think they started to see DH as a real adult. And realised I was an individual person with children. They backed off massively (well, one did). I am now very fond of the one sister, and still can't be bothered at all with the other.

What's your SIL's relationship with your DC? Does she see them often, babysit, spoil them as you have described in your OP? She may well want to mirror the relationship she has with your DC for your relationship with her DC. If she see does not see much of your DC, I think you could reasonably expect not to see much of hers.

You have an idea of how happy loving families should behave and are planning other people's futures accordingly. Stop! That's so rude. Your fantasy life has no place affecting other people's reality.

What's missing here is you wondering what others want in their lives. I don't know what future relationship your SIL would like to have with your children, you don't seem to have explored that at all. Same for what she hopes for the future for you and her children. Your own children are tiny so they are too young to have an opinion but one day they will.

It comes across like you've got tunnel vision about what makes a good extended family, you are determined to have your vision of that become reality, nobody else has been consulted and you are not open to differing opinions and realities.

It's like you have a crush on an idea of aunties. The other people might not share your crush. They might not think World of Aunties is the bestest thing in the world ever. Chill out.

You sound like a flipping nightmare who doesn't know when to back off. You are just digging yourself deeper and deeper the more you answer. You sound very intense, just leave them be.

You only know what your brother has told you. Stop assuming so much. Your lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

Your lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

I won't share my reflections on our relationship here with you - this makes me private and conscious of lurkers, not lacking in self-awareness. I have written and deleted over half a dozen responses by now (not just to you) explaining more about the kind of people we both are, and the paths we have already taken to appreciate one another for who we are, but I don't think I owe any of you the full picture. After all, I have no idea who any of you are. But you don't owe me an assessment that pleases me or advice I find helpful either, so don't worry about it. It's really fine if you think I must be awful.

You have an idea of how happy loving families should behave and are planning other people's futures accordingly. Stop! That's so rude. Your fantasy life has no place affecting other people's reality.

This is insightful - I have never seen it phrased that way. I think both SIL and I are like this, except we do not fit one another's image.

I don't think I owe any of you the full picture

You absolutely don’t. It’s also not necessary. All anyone is doing, is responding to your general attitude here. As that’s all people have to go on. Based on your responses and overall attitude towards them having a baby, you do lack self awareness, with regards to your family. It’s been pointed out using examples here. You don’t want to hear it though and it’s fine if you want to disregard things and only find things that suit you. It’s your thread to get out of it what you’re willing to. Maybe in private you’ll reflect on some of the things that are harder to hear, especially about your relationship with your brother. It might help your problem if you do. The fact you are so sure your brother shares all the personal stuff about his wife with you, is a cause for concern. He doesn’t in all likelihood, and nor should he. Maybe your SIL is the one who feels like a third wheel when you’re around and feels she can’t get close to you because you and your brother are a team. Who knows. But if you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting the same results.

Only you know the nuanced dynamics of your family RS. You can pick and choose the comments on here that chime with you to reflect on or act on. You don’t have to defend yourself.

You don’t need a relationship with her to have your niece / nephew in your life. Your brother can still visit you but bring his baby with him. You might find she changes and when her child is older wants them to have a relationship with his or her cousins.

Overinvested and subjective posters on your thread OP!

I agree with @Sssloou - take the useful information on board.

I think that this is a difficult dynamic and realistically you are never going to be great friends but hopefully can maintain a cordial relationship and look to your brother and parents to help you build regular contact, probably when baby is older

I think you should leave them to enjoy the early days of parenthood and given space she will hopefully turn to you for advice if and when she needs it.
Or if she doesn't feel able to she might direct your dB to ask your opinion but I only think this will work if you give her the space to feel she needs you/ your help and opinions.

I would just leave her as she is.
Soon enough your brother will probably start bringing the baby around on his own and start engaging with you about the relationship between the cousins.

Contrary to what people on Mumsnet mothers are not the gatekeepers to their children.

He can independently and proactively integrate his child into his family.

I will say I have not RTFT. Which is probably a good thing. Anyway as an auntie I learnt my number one priority is my SIL (who happens to be amazing and I am so lucky). All you can do is put the past behind you and be the best you that you can be. Wait to be invited but be really accommodating when you are. Offer to help even when it doesn't involve the children.
I cant think of anything worse than having a child and suddenly feeling like people only want to get close so they can have access to this child. You can't separate the two so you must make your peace with her first. Nothing will work unless you genuinely see the good in her and want to repair the relationship.
Once that's under way the rest is easy.

You don't have a right to see your niece or nephew or have a relationship with them, it's up to their mother.

Up to their father too surely?

When you were first pregnant and had your babies did you reach out an olive branch to encourage a new dynamic between you. If so how did she respond?