Doting aunt-to-be - but difficult relationship w/ sister-in-law

[Nunette]

My first niece or nephew is due next month and I am thrilled! I've always wanted to be an aunt.

Unfortunately while I'm close to my brother and he comes over to see his nieces regularly (I have a 1 & a 3 year old), my sister-in-law and I don't get along. No one's fault, really, we are just not compatible. We've even had the occasional fight in the past. I'd say we are cordial now. I'd love for us to try and be closer, especially for the sake of my daughters as she's their only aunt and we have a very small family (my husband has no living relatives except his grandmother who is very old), but she's holding off, and she has that right.

But I desperately don't want our incompatibility to affect my relationship with my niece or nephew. I would love to babysit, I would love to spoil them, and I would love for the cousins to be close. But if the pregnancy is anything to go by, this won't be easy. Of course it's been more difficult to stay in touch with covid, so it is not so strange we have seen SIL only once in the past 8 months, but she's also, for example, refused to accept any of the (pre-loved & new) stuff I offered her.

My brother - who is in a difficult position here - says we will make it work, and that it is also important to him that our families stay close. But I am very worried about this. What advice would you give me?

Hi @Nunette. No idea why you're getting such a hard time. Im going to be an aunt for the first time this month. Im so excited.

I hope you can all work things out. I think it's also your brother's right to say who his child sees too. It's not all up to the mother. Anyway i hope you can reconcile. It's always good to have family you can fall back on.

Of course this topic is about me and my feelings mostly. It is my topic. I can't report on what my SIL wants because I don't know.

The thread is about you but the baby isn’t. It isn’t. If you had said, My brother and SIL are having a baby.... it would set a different tone. But you give away your feelings with the way you’ve presented it. You are projecting your ideal of your family onto your SIL and brother.
You do know what your SIL wants, she’s made it clear she doesn’t want to be close to you. You just won’t accept it.

@MillyMollyFarmer

All right. I cannot compete with so many assumptions.

I think the pattern of how things have been since you first had DC will continue.

Sounds like she didn’t choose to step up to be a loving aunt to them - or she wasn’t encouraged to.

There have already been two births in the family which could have defrosted the emotional tone and they didn’t.

I wouldn’t expect anything different this time. It’s v clear where your RS stands - if anything she will be protective and withdraw.

What specifically is the root of the personality clash? Is it childhood traits / events / emotions. Was it one incident?

You have known each other a v long time it sounds a bit stuck in an historic / immature dynamic - have your both matured emotionally as adults - do you have different energy?

I'm sort of in this situation and I think it's really important not to be, or come across as being, only interested in repairing the relationship because she's pregnant. Agree with PP that she's probably going to withdraw from your efforts because to her nothing has changed and she's probably worried that there will be expectations of her to magic up a relationship that hasn't been there up til now purely because she's having a baby. Could you talk to your brother about how best to proceed? It doesn't mean you won't be close to their child but you may not ever be close to her.

Of course I love people my parents didn’t but not as an small child. I think you love your SIL but don’t like her. I wouldn’t expose my child to that dynamic if I could avoid it. She obviously loves you and your children because she has agreed to raise them if you and your dh die. She doesn’t however want a friendship and in my experience people don’t spend time facilitating relationships with people they’re not friends with.

I’m sorry you want it to be different than it is. That must be hard.

I wouldn’t take any second hand stuff for my PFB either (I know lots do, but that’s not my thing). Especially not off a SIL that I don’t like!

Your relationship with SIL sounds like it is permanently damaged, I mean who has ugly sweary shouting matches with a SIL. 🙁. Get to know your niece or nephew through your brother primarily.

OP I don't think you are even contemplating what an absolutely shitty time it is to be pregnant right now. It doesn't seem to have crossed your mind from reading your post. Of course she's keeping her distance and lying low at home. Having had a baby in lockdown let me tell you, my pregnancy and birth was the worst experience of my life (despite the wonderful gift at the end) and there are loads of stresses and worries she'll be having. It's not all about you.

Secondly, I completely get that she wouldn't want your second hand baby clothes. It's entirely understandable. If it's her first baby she might want to buy the things she chooses that suit her taste. It can feel very imposing when people try to offer things, especially during Covid, and most especially if she doesn't even like you to begin with!

Your post doesn't go into details about what went wrong but it reads to me like she has chosen to keep a respectful distance from you and may not want that toxicity in her life or her baby's life, beyond the occasional dutiful visit. You don't have a right to see your niece or nephew or have a relationship with them, it's up to their mother.

@PinotMa

I am very sorry pregnancy was so shitty for you, but you obviously had a different experience from my SIL. They've been following the rules but gone for the most liberal interpretation possible throughout: they have even managed to go on a holiday abroad three times during the pregnancy despite lockdowns and regulations. SIL also has an active social life. She's the kind of person who has never been ill a day in her life (my brother is the same), so they're not worried for themselves or the baby. SIL has had a dream of a pregnancy with virtually no symptoms and is still working (fulltime, out of the house) despite being due in a few weeks. :-)

I think it really does depend why you don't get on. As building a relationship when there's fundamental differences is different to building a relationship when you've just never really bothered much before.

So your SIL and you dont get on, she doesnt have a relationship as such with your DC but you have this idea that your going to be a doting auntie and having her DC for sleep overs etc. I think you need to burst the fantasy bubble...that isnt going to be happening

[quote Nunette]@PinotMa

I am very sorry pregnancy was so shitty for you, but you obviously had a different experience from my SIL. They've been following the rules but gone for the most liberal interpretation possible throughout: they have even managed to go on a holiday abroad three times during the pregnancy despite lockdowns and regulations. SIL also has an active social life. She's the kind of person who has never been ill a day in her life (my brother is the same), so they're not worried for themselves or the baby. SIL has had a dream of a pregnancy with virtually no symptoms and is still working (fulltime, out of the house) despite being due in a few weeks. :-)[/quote]
This is what you think. How do you know her pregnancy has been easy? I've had fortnightly scans for various reasons but we've not told many people because it's none of their business. You are still managing to make this about you.

All right. I cannot compete with so many assumptions

I’m literally responding to your own words in the OP. If you only want tea and sympathy, instead of actual advice to what you’ve actually said, you’ve come to the wrong place. Everyone is saying the same thing to you and you seem to be surprised by it. If you don’t want to hear responses to your own words.... I don’t know what to tell you, other than I think I see why SIL keeps her distance.

I’m not sure what you’re imaging but I can’t see things changing as you want them to. Why would she welcome you as a “doting” aunt when she isn’t one to your DC and for all your claims of loving her the two of you clearly don’t like each other. No one comes near my child who isn’t a loving positive presence in my life. Children don’t need grandparents, aunts or uncles more than they need happy, calm, supported parents. She doesn’t feel differently about you because she’s pregnant, why would she?

I feel like your intentions are probably in the right place but you are coming across a bit full on and intense. I have polite but distant relationship with my SIL (exacerbated by living in different countries and having a slight language barrier) - we are very different people but neither of us are awful. She thinks i'm a bit to 'precious' in my parenting style (comments to my DH have been made) And while I have not specifically voiced them its probably obvious that I'm always a bit surprised about how laid back/relaxed she is with her parenting choices eg. I didn't leave DD overnight with grandparents until she was over 2 vs her that was happy to go on a 9 day 'girls holiday' with her friends involving being an 8hr flight away when her DS was only 3mnths old. Neither choice is 'right' or 'better' of course.

Anyway - my DD is now 4 and our 2nd DD is due imminently and hers are 6, 3 & 10mths. The cousins have a great bond and video chat regularly and love spending time together when we can (particularly my 4 and her 3yr old) But the majority is facilitated between DH and his Sis directly - I don't need to be overly involved (although i am the one what organizes and remembers all the birthdays and Xmas gifts of course)
I love my DN/Ns and its fun it's hang out with them at family events - do i want to borrow them or have them for sleep overs for extended periods of time - well no more than my friends kids - which i do on occasion for DD's benefit more so than my own.

[quote Nunette]@PinotMa

I am very sorry pregnancy was so shitty for you, but you obviously had a different experience from my SIL. They've been following the rules but gone for the most liberal interpretation possible throughout: they have even managed to go on a holiday abroad three times during the pregnancy despite lockdowns and regulations. SIL also has an active social life. She's the kind of person who has never been ill a day in her life (my brother is the same), so they're not worried for themselves or the baby. SIL has had a dream of a pregnancy with virtually no symptoms and is still working (fulltime, out of the house) despite being due in a few weeks. :-)[/quote]
How do you know it's been easy, you barely speak to her! Presumably she's not going to tell you all her worries. It is still the case that women are having to attend appointments, scans and the majority of the birth, and then all postnatal care alone.

This is what you think. How do you know her pregnancy has been easy?

I know because I am very close to my brother. I was the first to know about the pregnancy outside from the two of them (obvs): he called me an hour after they tested positive. :-)

Your best approach is to be kind and give space to your DB for him to do what his wife wants. Do not try to manipulate him or the situation.

Don’t put him under pressure, don’t expect him to manage it, negotiate it, deliver what you want or be the go to person between you both because that is v unfair and will be counter productive on your long term RS with him.

He needs to have a wonderful experience of fatherhood, of the 3 of them bonding together and not with the persistent pressure of meeting your needs - you are irrelevant right now. Accept that and step back.

I think if you respected her decisions and backed right off from your DB, emotionally disconnect - you might be rewarded with contact down the line. Alternatively pressure, demands, etc will continue to be met with resistance and withdrawal.

I hope that it turns out well for you all.

I know because I am very close to my brother

You know what your brother tells you. You do not know how the experience has been for her.

He needs to have a wonderful experience of fatherhood, of the 3 of them bonding together and not with the persistent pressure of meeting your needs - you are irrelevant right now. Accept that and step back

This is important. It may help the relationship in the future get better.

Is she happy with him sharing as much with you as he does? Did she agree to you knowing she was pregnant within an hour of them finding out? I’d have been extremely pissed off with DH blabbing to someone I don’t particularly like.

I wonder if the lack of boundaries between her husband and his sister is adding to the feeling of wanting to make and maintain space she has.

I think you have to accept that your role as auntie may not be as anticipated. However be consistent with birthdays Easter Christmas etc and see what happens as they grow up and she settles into being a mum. My SIL and I are not close, and then I got pregnant and she started messaging all the time, and having loud opinions about everything to do with my approach to pregnancy and parenting. SILs approach was that this was her niece and that trumped my role as mum. Pregnancy does funny things to us all- I didn't want hand me downs either, I felt they cluttered my small house. Go easy on your SIL. This is HER baby, let her enjoy it rather than concentrating on your role in it all.

Pregnancy can heighten emotions and bring up all sorts of feelings; I felt extremely possessive of my pregnancy and hated any hint of (however well-meaning) advice or what felt like patronising. This was MY baby, leave me alone!

I wouldn’t have wanted hand-me-downs prior to the birth either - I did welcome them later, but getting organised and nesting was one of the things I wanted control over, as pregnancy can feel outside one’s control, and was possessive about; people’s offers of help and stuff felt like interference or taking something away from me. Again: this was MY baby, I wanted to pick and choose the things (clothes, toys, storage). (Partly because I had a tiny flat and a MIL who likes to hand over bin bags of literal rubbish.) Preparing is fun and it felt a bit like being bossed around when people tried to give me, say, a breastfeeding cover-up when I had no plans to use one.

Does SIL know your brother told you she was pregnant so soon after testing positive? Many people don’t tell anyone until after the 12-week scan; that update did make me flinch a bit.

They agreed to each tell one close friend about the pregnancy right away so they had someone to talk to about it. Everyone else found out after the 12 week scan. So yes, this was a full awareness, full consent situation.