Boundaries - drawing a line

[Nosnogginginthekitchen]

in a newish relationship (nearly 8 months) and considering the stressful environment it's been forged in (thanks covid) it's been plain sailing and lovely on all front bar one.

I was married previously and, amongt much other shit, exdh used to blame me for his bad mood and use me as a (figurative) punching bag.

One time a few months ago current boyfriend snapped at me due to a work situation that made him grumpy. I got upset, explained to him it was a hard limit for me and that I wouldn't be anybodys pinching bag ever again.

He took it on board, got upset because he didn't want to lose me, but didnt make it about himself. Just apologised. The other day it happened again. More mildly, not so explicit, but it felt similar and I told him again it was a hard limit for me. He apologised again and everything else is fine.

But how many chances do you give someone? I truly care about him. He's been immensely supportive when I've been a mess thanks to lockdown etc, but i don't want to be one of those women on mumsnet who keeps taking the same shit and wonders why nothing is ever different.

Please be gentle.

Tough one because it's a habit he needs to break...

Are you able to call it out straight away or have you brought up later on?

Within half an hour. I needed a bit of time to make sure I gave a measured reaction and not a weeping or raging one

You told him it was a hard limit and he did it again. So what's the point of a limit if you don't enforce it?

Next time do it straight away?

It's not a hard limit, though, is it? Otherwise you'd be gone

A boundary is not something you use to lecture, prescribe, and try to change the behaviour of another person. A boundary is a limit on your own behaviour.

If your boundary is that you don't want anyone to ever snap at you, then you have to leave people who snap at you.

I would think very carefully about what your boundaries are. Remember, it's not about changing other people, it is about deciding what you will tolerate. And conveying that without using the word 'boundary' or 'limit' - when you are, you can be sure you are not being boundaried or limited.

Think about what it is that actually upsets you. It probably isn't the snapping, because that is human. Is it disrespect? Is it an accusatory tone? Work our what it is, and if you must, tell him explicitly that when he said x, y, z in a, b, c way, it was unacceptable to you, and if it ever happens again the relationship is over. If you know the relationship won't be over, then it isn't your boundary and you need to really understand what your boundary is.

But you don't have to explain or give a second chance. If a man calls me a cunt, I end it on the spot. That shows contempt, and there's no coming back from contempt.

Christmassfluff - thank you. That's really helpful. What he does is actually very mild but because of my previous experience I just want to make sure that I don't enable behaviour that is unacceptable to me. It's what I did last time and I want to avoid it.

If I coukd afford it I'd see my relationship counsellor, but things ain't great financially so I'm shamelessly using mumsnet to talk this out.
You're right about my use of language. I guess it's not a 'hard limit' or I would have binned him, but similarly it is not something that I want to become a pattern of behaviour and I don't think it's a big ask, really. I'm happy for him to be grumpy, to have crap days, to qant to rant tome etc. What I don't want is for him to snap at me or for him to find some fake reason to be annoyed at me so he can direct his bad mood right at me. I think possibly this is something we need to talk about more, to find a way forwards.

There are so many positives about him and this relationship, but i don't want to blind myself to something that is a sticking point. I'm trying to keep the self respect that I earned kicking my selfish narcissistic twat of an ex out. I'm trying to learn from those hard lessons.

I appreciate the listening ears and kind advice.

Without exact examples of the words and tone used, it's hard to tell whether it's your past trauma making you overly sensitive or he's really being disrespectful or violating.

Honestly? I'm probably a little over sensitive. His tone was, I guess, ... disgruntled? And his words weren't rude. I'm doing some self reflection and will talk to him about it this weekend.

If he is just a bit irritable because he's under stress and snapping, that's not something that would bother me personally. It's quite unrealistic, in my opinion, for there to never be a cross word in a relationship. At 8 months, I'd expect/want to be at the point where you feel comfortable enough to be able to express general irritation without fear that was the end of an otherwise good, relationship.

However, if it's a hard line for you and he's crossed it twice, it's probably time to call it a day.

I think its natural to be a little snappy sometimes. As long as he isnt calling you names or acting threatening...it might just be a bit if an overreaction on your part during to your trauma. Something to keep an eye on maybe, but not a dump-able offense. That being said, if it feel really disrespectful or makes you look at him differently then listen to your gut.

As pp said, boundaries are for yourself and the sort of behaviour you will tolerate. They have little to do with the other person. Saying to someone 'hey, these are my boundaries' would be a red flag to a bull if this person was abusive.

The fact that he has done it again may be a red flag but... I think you'd have seen a lot more of it by now if that were the case. That being said, there could be other red flags you have not mentioned to us, or picked up on yourself.

*due to your trauma

I think it may be a little naive never to expect the stresses of life to never impact on your conversations and relationship. For me, things like raised voices, sarcasm, name calling, belittlement, invalidation and blaming are out of order. They are only a deal breaker in a regular or semi-regular context though, I should probably have a harder limit, so I understand your confusion with that.

Just for them to say something slightly grumpily, not so much. But it's so hard to judge other people relationships. The advice you've been given is excellent and has gave me something to think about, so thank you.

Finding ways to make his bad mood your fault, when it is nothing to do with you, is certainly the seeds of abusive behaviour. It relates to not being accountable or responsible for yourself, your life and your actions. If this is happening so early on in a relationship, it does not bode well it indicates a well established pattern of relationship behaviour if he cant even conceal it for a few months.

Actually, what I'm reading us what he's done is talk to you twice twice in eight months in a snappy/disgruntled manner.... when you've talked to him about it he has accepted critisism and tried to improve.

The other things... The blaming you for his bad moods? Is he actually doing that or are you just nervous if that happening? I assumed the latter.

Aaaah, I get it a bit more now.

It's about him having responsibility for himself and accepting that his bad moods are not your fault, and that it's inappropriate for him to act as though they are. And about you recognising where the line is.

Because no-one is perfect.It's the response that matters - he seems to have apologised appropriately, and to be trying to not do it again - two episodes in a few months, the second less upsetting than the first, would seem to be him trying to change for the better.

So from your point of view, you have seen an aspect of him you don't like. The appropriate response is to be aware, hold on to your heart, and continue to monitor the situation. Know that you have your own back.

If the snappiness begins to be more frequent, and escalates in intensity, you will have your answer. Then you can walk away.

We don't need to try to predict if someone is going to be abusive. We only have to be careful not to enmesh, and to keep on evaluating. Love does not mean enmeshment, and it does not entail self-betrayal. Abusers will always reveal themselves at some point. We just have to know we will walk when they do.

I don't think you're overreacting. If you don't like someone taking their bad mood out on you, you don't like someone taking their bad mood out on you, and that's quite a reasonable boundary (and it is a boundary) to have I think.

What matters is how you enforce the boundary. And it's ok to not be able to say anything there and then. That would be the ideal of course, but not all of us feel able to do it.

My bestie/ex partner, he can get snappy once or twice if he's in a lot of pain, such as he recently had a broken arm. I didn't have to say anything and it wasn't as a result of anything I'd said in the past, for him to apologize as soon as he'd done it, and explain that it's just that he's in pain etc. Because he knew he hadn't been reasonable.

Your man knows it's wrong, because presumably he knows how people should treat each other.

If I were you I think I'd dump him if there's a next time.

I so appreciate the thoughtful responses I've had here. I think it's probably as described - that he's taken it on board, is aware of it himself and is improving whilst I am just trying to make sure I don't sleepwalk into another bad situation unaware.

If it makes any difference we're both people pleasers (i have been called co dependent on mumsnet in the past) but he is inexperienced in relationships being younger than me and previously focused on his career. I, on the other hand, was enmeshed in a very LTR with a depressed covert narcissist, so I suspect we both have a little growing and accommodating to do as our relationship progresses.

I'm hesitant to talk to my friends and mum because they're understandably protective of me after supporting me through my break up and their advice is coloured by that.

I miss my counsellor

Perhaps you can keep a diary so you have something to look back on if you think things worsen/don't improve.

Not a bad plan.
Thanks

As an ex people pleaser myself, something that used to be an issue for me was assuming that other people's moods were associated with me, I was to blame for them. Took me a lot of work to realise I was in the wrong in believing that.... Could this be part of the problem for you too? Could you be feeling that you are inadequate because he's unhappy at that particular moment in time?