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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Difficult MIL- how LC can I go?

20 replies

Nightmareinlaws · 30/08/2020 20:48

I recently posted a version of this on AIBU but someone suggested I come here for more insight- sorry it’s so long.

Basically I’m having huge issues with the way I’m feeling towards my in-laws, particularly my mil. I’ve been with my husband for 20 years+ and I’ve always found her behaviour weird and challenging but I’ve pushed these feeling to one side and tried to get on with it to some extent. It’s always so tense when they come to stay and my Dh and I always argue in the lead up to them coming. For years my husband has inferred the issue is mine, that I’m being judgemental or bitchy or that it’s just run of the mill dil/mil tension. If I said something negative or wasn’t enthusiastic about spending Christmas with them etc he would say that I was choosing my parents over his. He’s accused me of trying to sabotage his relationship with them, (they’ve never been close but he has 3 older sisters who all seem close to each other and their parents).

Her behaviour towards me has always been, IMO very passive aggressive and I feel their whole family dynamic is toxic. Over the last couple of years I’ve come to the point where I’ve had enough and I really don’t want to spend time with them at all.

My husband has been having therapy mainly bc he had been suffering with depression and anxiety triggered (he thinks) by some very stressful money issues we have had over the last few years. He’s really struggling with his self esteem and he feels as though he has never really had any connection with his family. They don’t really ever discuss anything if any substance and I think he feels like his parents have never really listened to how he feels about anything.

Over they last couple of years I’ve adopted a non official low contact approach. They never contact us, they don’t phone even when they know things are really tough- they’re pretty disinterested in our children. I feel emotionally drained by the tension when we get together so I’ve stopped instigating meet ups, let Dh get presents- I remind him but I keep out of the buying etc.

Some examples of her behaviour are:

She monopolises very conversation and has to be the centre of attention regardless of the situation. Everything is worse for her, she talks constantly about herself until everybody loses the will to live.
She seems to completely lack empathy while simultaneously feeling constantly sorry for herself.
She has a huge range of mystery illnesses, mainly food allergy related. She has a long list of foods that she can’t eat, I always try to make a meal that takes these into account but often she will find something within the ingredients that she now can’t eat. She’ll then risk eating what I’ve made only to spend the rest of the evening telling my fil in staged whispers that she now has a headache or some such symptom triggered by what she’s eaten. Conversely if we go to one of my sil houses she eat a spoonful of trifle or something containing all the foods she can’t eat and seemingly be fine.
She’s constantly telling me how small/thin/petite she is and how the socks/cardigan etc I’ve lent her are far too big.
She makes constant semi-deliberate faux pas that are quite hurtful and then spends ages back tracking and saying things like oh dear, I really shouldn’t have said that- on the last family zoom we did she said ‘oh here comes porky’ when I sat down- my name vaguely rhymes with porky and I’m a bit overweight- she’s a very smug size 8 and manages to slip this into the conversation frequently.
My pil are very religious while I am an atheist. They take every opportunity to get my children on their own and insist that god does exist and not to let anyone tell them otherwise. She prays with them when she goes in to say goodnight and tells my children not to tell mummy. When I confronted her about this she tried to tell me they’d asked her to which is laughable.
She has never paid me any kind of compliment about anything.
She insists that my dh has a degree in a particular subject when he in fact he has a degree in a related but different subject. Despite both me and my dh correcting her she still insists she is right and we are wrong- it’s really quite surreal.
She refuses to acknowledge who my sister is and when I refer to her by name she says who’s x despite having met her numerous times.
She’s always making passive aggressive comments about the house and how dirty it is. She once scraped all the black bits off the inside of the oven when she was babysitting and kept it in a plate to show me when we got home.
She doesn’t invite us to family events and then shares photos on the family WhatsApp. When we question why we weren’t invited she just dismisses it and then she always says things like, what a shame you couldn’t come. Even when I say the reason we didn’t come was that we didn’t know it was happening she won’t acknowledge we weren’t invited.
If anyone challenges her behaviour she sulks or storms off crying and then spends ages acting wounded and saying how she never meant to upset anyone and how unwelcome she now feels.
She’s always anxious around the children telling them to be careful and stepping in when I don’t react and then telling me horrific stories of how she knows of a baby that cracked his head open and died standing up in his high chair or a child that toppled over a wall and was killed or similar so that I feel compelled to react.
She drains my energy- she’s like a leech that latches onto me looking for constant sympathy, reassurance, endless conversations about her...
The list goes on- I could write for days about her!

My question is to what extent should I put up with all this for the sake of my husband’s relationship with them? AIBU to suggest we don’t really see them except for the bare minimum? How do I handle Christmas etc. The rest of his family, parents, sisters, even their in laws always spend Xmas, holidays etc together- we’re never included in any planning, often invited as an afterthought last minute if at all and then given a huge guilt trip if we don’t go. My husband usually uses the excuse that we’re going to my parents instead and they hate that- they think I’m snubbing them and keeping dh away from his family. I don’t want my kids to see me feeling like I do when I’m with them- but am I being selfish- I feel so confused.

My husband is starting to realise (through a combination of therapy and me trying to set to some boundaries) that some of mil behaviour isn’t normal and he’s started to call her out on some of her more unreasonable stuff. This seems to have made her even more hostile and passive aggressive towards me and weirdly sycophantic towards him. She’s incredibly controlling manipulative.

What should I do?!

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 30/08/2020 21:00

What should I do?!

You tell your husband you will no longer be interacting in any way with his parents. That's what you do. If he wants to have a relationship with them, fine, but you will not have a part in it. You have simply had enough.

Twobigsapphires · 30/08/2020 21:07

As per @Aquamarine1029 OP. I did exactly this with my toxic MIL 5 years ago. It’s total bliss. Dh is pretty lc with her anyway. He just goes to visit her alone.

Sssloou · 30/08/2020 21:18

Over they last couple of years I’ve adopted a non official low contact approach. They never contact us, they don’t phone even when they know things are really tough- they’re pretty disinterested in our children. I feel emotionally drained by the tension when we get together so I’ve stopped instigating meet ups, let Dh get presents- I remind him but I keep out of the buying etc.

Looks like you have taken significant steps - well done. Really you should be delighted that they don’t ring you, that they don’t instigate meet ups and even that they have zero interest in your DCs. That means you have less battles to fight and boundaries to hold up.

So what’s the concern?

Are these steps not enough?
Had you hoped that in withdrawing - they would change their behaviour and come good?

Do you feel some level of guilt that you can’t tolerate her hideous behaviour?

Do you feel you have contributed to it?

Are you taking some of the responsibility and feeling sad for your DH?

Really I would keep well out of it - let your DH “see” and “feel” the reality all for himself with the help of his therapist. You don’t need to get in the way of them examining that dynamic.

Accept it’s been dreadful, that everyone else sees and knows it. Move on out of this toxic nonsense - you have already done a 20 year life sentence. Look to fill your time and special events with nice people whether they are blood or not. Teach your DCs to see, sense and swerve difficult people.

Your DH journey and detangling from his enmeshment is his own at his own pace.

Nightmareinlaws · 30/08/2020 22:05

I think I’m just starting to feel more worried now we’re emerging from lockdown. DH’s family are all getting together- in fact the 3 sisters and their families went camping together and judging by the photos on the family WhatsApp the parents joined them for part of it and no one mentioned it to us. I wouldn’t have wanted to go but I can see DH feels hurt and excluded. It’s hard watching him light up when they suggest getting together only for me to be very non pulsed. I have tried to gently explain why I don’t feel I can spend much time with his mil and I think he gets it but he wants a relationship with all his sisters and they seem to come as a package with his parents so it’s difficult...

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 30/08/2020 22:08

Honestly, I don't understand at all why you are so torn as to what you should do. You have dealt with this shit and horrendous behaviour for over 20 years. Isn't that long enough? If this were your friend's problem, wouldn't you tell them to go no contact? It's the obvious and completely reasonable thing to do.

Aquamarine1029 · 30/08/2020 22:11

I wouldn’t have wanted to go but I can see DH feels hurt and excluded. It’s hard watching him light up when they suggest getting together only for me to be very non pulsed. I have tried to gently explain why I don’t feel I can spend much time with his mil and I think he gets it but he wants a relationship with all his sisters and they seem to come as a package with his parents so it’s difficult...

What's the issue, really? If your husband wants to see his family he can, anytime he wants to. He needs to learn how to manage his relationship with his family himself and leave you out of it.

BlenheimOrange · 30/08/2020 22:21

Why are you posting this again? Has something changed?

scoobydoo1971 · 30/08/2020 22:28

Your MIL is the twin of my mother...some of the examples you have given are uncanny. Your MIL has a suspected borderline personality disorder...all the examples you give of her behaviour are typical of that condition. Of course no one can be virtually diagnosing complex psychiatric conditions, but knowing that she has serious mental health issues helps you to reframe who she is as a person. She is not a threat to you, but an individual who is a victim of her own deranged mental health. Her life must be quite awful, as is the case with my mother. Borderline personality disorder is the embodiment of the tortured soul. You should read up on borderline personality disorder as it will help you to manage your interactions with her. You must stop taking the insults and attention seeking personally. This is what I did, and it helped me to manage my own mother. I am the only person in my family who will deal with her, and that is largely due to the fact that I have learned ways to accept that she won't change and is neurologically unable to respond normally or rationally. Of course, I get lots of days when I am angry with her, don't want to see her or deal with her unreasonable toxic demands...I miss having a parent who doesn't act like a petulant child (my father who was brilliant died years ago). The bottom line for you is that you should try to see her as a person with mental illness, and that will help you understand her jibes and attention-seeking is not just about her targeting you...she would do this with anyone who invades her fragile self in any way. You need to limit your contact with her, and understand that you are not responsible for healing with relationship with this woman. Encourage your son to get psychotherapy looking at childhood issues and how they link to current difficulties. This helped me to cope a great deal.

Aquamarine1029 · 30/08/2020 22:30

I have tried to gently explain why I don’t feel I can spend much time with his mil and I think he gets it...

Why "gently?" Why not clearly and firmly. Your husband is well aware how awful his mother is. Why have you not said, "I will no longer spend time with your mother and you're well aware of the reasons why." Conversation over.

cantarina · 30/08/2020 23:01

His family, his responsibility to nurture that relationship. You do not have to be with him at all times, he can take the kids to see them anytime. You have put up with enough. Say you no longer want to participate in your MIL's games, remind him of a few of the things you've said above. Get a stock phrase 'your mum and I just don't get along'. On this basis do not attend any more family meet ups. When asked to attend, repeat your stock phrase. Stick your heels in.

Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2020 00:03

You've asked for help twice now. Why don't you respond?

Nightmareinlaws · 31/08/2020 00:34

@Aquamarine1029

I have tried to gently explain why I don’t feel I can spend much time with his mil and I think he gets it...

Why "gently?" Why not clearly and firmly. Your husband is well aware how awful his mother is. Why have you not said, "I will no longer spend time with your mother and you're well aware of the reasons why." Conversation over.

Because his relationship with his family is complex, because he suffers from anxiety and depression and because I’m not a complete bitch.
OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2020 01:10

You can not be a bitch and still not be a doormat. Your husband is responsible for managing his anxiety and depression. You should suffer because he won't?

Sssloou · 02/09/2020 09:24

*For years my husband has inferred the issue is mine, that I’m being judgemental or bitchy or that it’s just run of the mill dil/mil tension. If I said something negative or wasn’t enthusiastic about spending Christmas with them etc he would say that I was choosing my parents over his. He’s accused me of trying to sabotage his relationship with them, (they’ve never been close but he has 3 older sisters who all seem close to each other and their parents).

Her behaviour towards me has always been, IMO very passive aggressive and I feel their whole family dynamic is toxic.*

Your DH has anxiety and depression because his DM is unhinged, manipulative and he has lived in this toxic environment since birth. He is mired in it and also the hierarchy and authority.

He is v angry inside with his DM - but is unable to express it to her directly or resolve the situation so he turns and blames and abuses the woman closest to him to take his frustrations out on ie YOU.

Step well back out of this toxic dynamic - it is not yours. Give him zero comments or fuel to distract him from the real issue (is DM) so that he comes onto you.

His depression and anxiety will lift once he drops the rope with his family - give him a clear shot of this so that he can see it.

Don’t be the buffer, the punchbag, the distraction.

I am sorry you have endured all of this. I was in a similar dynamic for many years. I spend too many years trying to encourage a normal happy healthy family atmosphere - only to then become the focus of attack by both parties. I was naive and didn’t know what I was looking at or involved in. This is their family dynamic - you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it and you can’t cure it.

Detach. Detach. Detach.....with dignity and indifference. Hopefully he will get to this point sooner rather than later.

Don’t facilitate or enable a toxic RS. You need to accept that it will never improve, it is what it is, there is only more pain in store and a calmer and more peaceful life is ahead once you remove yourself from exposure to toxic people.

Swerve out of the way. Up your LC to NC discreetly - don’t even mention it to him. Fill your lives proactively with fun, warm kind people and you won’t even notice his family are absent.

Horsemad · 02/09/2020 11:58

You can go as LC as you want, OP. 🙂

Leave your DH to it, if he wants to see them he can, nobody can make you participate. They sound great, they're not pushing for contact, so you don't have that to manage!

My in-laws live in the same street, only a few houses away - I'm very LC with them and haven't seen them since June.

It can be done.

ForInfoOnly · 02/09/2020 12:01

I would not be entertaining this toxic person any longer, regardless of who she is

averythinline · 02/09/2020 12:13

Get off the family WhatsApp..there's no need for you to be on it..I think you could be clearer in your communication...with him...you are having nothing to do with them....why would you??

If he wants to continue thats up to him hopefully the counselling will help him find his level on interaction ...but that doesn't need to be yours..

Chicchicchicchiclana · 02/09/2020 12:20

I thought you got very good, balanced advice on your AIBU thread from 6 days ago.

Why are you posting again?

Are you just hoping for more encouragement to go low contact?

theprincessmittens · 02/09/2020 12:25

I have had similar problems, but with my FIL...he's a narcissistic control freak who thinks his way of life is the only acceptable way. He has this belief that his family is close - they aren't by any means, and he tries to control others within the family to make this fantasy true. He treats myself (52) and OH (50) like stupid children who still need to bow to his authority.

OH says his father was forced to marry his mother when she became pregnant when they were both just 21, and he's resented it and been unhappy ever since.

I cut my own father out of my life 30 years ago, and have limited contact with my mother. As I often tell my OH, if I wasn't willing to put up with my parents bullshit, what on Earth makes him think I will put up with FIL's? He's just another adult person to me, his 'rank' as OH's father means less than zero to me.

I live 200 miles away from the ILs...I've not seen either of them in 6 years. Very occasionally I feel sad about that, as I was previously married and had a very good relationship with my ex H's family for nearly 20 years - including his parents. So I know that the problem is not with me.

H's family = H's problem. I'd stop wasting precious energy worrying about it. I know your H has depression - I'm bipolar, and still manage to deal with my mother without input from OH. Telling another adult you won't have a nasty person in your life is not being a 'complete bitch'.

PGTlegal · 18/08/2021 10:47

Hi, I have just come across this thread. I was looking for support because, whilst my mother has not been formally diagnosed, my brother and I have spoken to mental health professionals and they are fairly confident she is exhibiting symptoms of borderline personality. Reading the original post with the list of behaviours was like reading about my mother.
I have criticised throughout my childhood. If I do one thing wrong then I am bad throughout or at least that is the way she treats you. Same with other people. She talks ALOT and never asks about you. Everything is worse for her. When you try and make her see that it isnt that bad you can't win because she is on her own and I have a family. I could go on and on but suffice to say I am drained.
I am 36 and have two children but I feel like a child still because of the way in which i have tried to cope with her over the years. It is now becoming a problem with my 4 year old because she is saying inappropriate things to him and i won't let her do to them what she has done to us. I appreciate that she may well have a mental health issue but she won't accept help. My brother and i have just tried to get her to see the dr because she has been very down and she became very aggressive with us. Overall, I am looking for help and support. I am at a point where I can't see how to cope with this for the next 20 years. I have a very stressful job and I am feeling pulled in so many directions. Any help or guidance on how to deal with a parent with BPD or with issues like the above please let me know. I am so tired of never doing enough and yet I have no more to give. Thanks in advance.

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