Asking depressed DH to move out, how do I do this?

[OverTheRubicon]

DH and I have been together for over 15 years, we have 3 DCs age 1-6.

When he's well, he is a funny, kind, patient, and we have a great love life. When he's depressed - and in recent years his depressed spells have become more frequent and more severe, despite engaging with the doctor - he is so so so short tempered, self centred, has little to no interest in me and the kids and does almost nothing around the house. He does his job (though gets a lot angrier than usual and recently got a warning at work) and otherwise sleeps a lot and plays computer games. He then gets better, and everything is wonderful for months or a year and he wants more kids and I am apparently a goldfish who forgets everything in the past and has another baby...

The big issue is the anger. He used to blame his work stress, then it changed to me and now I realise he has started blaming our eldest son, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me - when after a whole holiday of me looking after the kids I asked him to be with them for 5 mins while I cooked and I had to run up from downstairs as he was shouting at them again, but this time telling them all that our 6 year old was 'fucking abnormal' (he is being assessed for ASD and is quite different, but my husband's main issue is him squabbling with his sisters and answering back sometimes, which is not usual in the culture we were raised in, but I think pretty regular here), and that our son was ruining all our lives and breaking up his parents' marriage. He would never say anything like this when he's well, and my heart broke for my children to hear this. I ran up and they were crying and huddled together, all three holding hands while he raged.

He left the room then texted me that he should move out, he hates living like this and he makes everything worse. I jumped on this (to make it his choice, and before I forgot everything again) and agreed and found a short term let that is expensive but done.

He thinks this is short term, I'm not so sure - but I am scared.

• How to manage full time work and everything else with no family or help in this country, through covid
• how to explain this to the children, and to help them deal. Should I tell the school? Get private counselling? My eldest has been waiting forever for a CAMHS assessment so I have no faith in NHS having resources to support them.
• for my husband, would seeing a private psychiatrist help with depression that isn't responding to anti-depressants? I'd like to insist on relationship counselling too, as I often don't feel able to say what I want for fear of his depression - but he doesn't want to do counselling, and says his friends say it doesn't work (and lots of posts on here agree)
• Are there other good tips?

So grateful for any help. I have no family here and my family overseas are traditional and will not understand.

And thank you to anyone who read that essay

That sounds really difficult for you.

My advice would be that in your position I would think very very hard before you push for any relationship councelling which would involve an ultimate aim of him moving back in.

Breakups are hard for children. Your husband has told them that he considers it to be your eldest son's fault which will make it even harder for them. If this move out is permenant at least the children only have to deal with this once.

If he comes back I think that they would always be walking on eggshells incase they "made you split up again" and then if it didn't go well and he moved back out feel that they had somehow failed.

It will be harder for you but I think that the kindest thing for the children would be to make this split permenant and to work on explaining to them that splitting up is a grownup thing and is never childrens fault and that dad was wrong.

Hi
I got so much practical support from Mumsnet when I split up from DH around 6 years ago .
Like you I made the decision and we'd been married around 22 years or more . I had 4 dc and worked part time .
Did not want our unhealthy relationship affecting the dc .
I won't pretend it was easy .
Some days I have literally crawled into bed with stress and exhaustion.
My tips would be ...
See a solicitor . They mostly give a free half hour . Get some idea of your position and options .
Play about on the Gov website with your current salary and financial commitments . If I'd had realised the tax credits I would get when single I'd have done it a lot earlier .

Think one day at a time . It's less overwhelming .
The paperwork overwhelmed me so I listed it in a big folder and did this also one bit at a time until all ticked off .
Tell a best friend or family member in RL to support you .
Books ..... a friend gave me a couple of books and one was How to Separate without F** Up Your Children . They were actually really good and helped me hugely with my approach .
Eat well
Drink less
Sleep well
Expect it to be really hard ....but it will probably be harder .
Talk to the dc honestly and show consistency .
Tell the school .
Looking back we had some memories ..... dc were 3, 11 , 18 and one already independent . I'd never changed a lightbulb never mind purchase a car or my house .
I am soo so proud of all of us looking back and somehow I think I may have got it right at least in part .
DD got into med school and my DS now 18 stayed with me and just passed 5 Alevels !
DD is a little insecure but we're working on that .
Looking back it was the best thing I could do for myself and DC .
If on the other hand you truly love your DH ignore all of the above !
My new DP has depression and it's draining but he's never angry . Not visibly anyway . I couldn't cope with that certainly not toward the dc .
I hope you make the right choice for you and good luck whatever you decide .
Happy to post out those books if you need them anytime .

this time telling them all that our 6 year old was 'fucking abnormal' (he is being assessed for ASD and is quite different, but my husband's main issue is him squabbling with his sisters and answering back sometimes, which is not usual in the culture we were raised in, but I think pretty regular here), and that our son was ruining all our lives and breaking up his parents' marriage.

No way! You're doing the right thing in splitting up with him. You know you can't have him verbally and emotionally abusing your children like this.

My dad had a temper and it has damaged me for life, I have a lot of anxiety etc from years of walking on eggshells while my brain was growing. I'm unable to work.

I ran up and they were crying and huddled together, all three holding hands while he raged.

Remember this image if you ever have any thought of getting back with him.

Has your husband tried many different treatments for his depression? It's not uncommon for one or two treatments to not suit someone- people need to keep going back/calling and letting the GP know how they're feeling.

Did he see a consultant? If a few treatments haven't worked, he needs to be referred by his GP.

You could try a private consultant- but has he seen an NHS one? I suppose he could see a private one while he's on the list to see an NHS one.

If the NHS prioritize someone they can actually see them the next day (this is just an extreme example) it is a myth that waiting times are long without fail.

He needs to go back to his GP/consultant and say his mental health has led to him getting in trouble at work. They will then prioritize him more due to the effect his mental health is having.

You could try a private consultant, but has he tried therapy/counselling? He needs to try a two pronged approach with both meds and therapy. If he didn't find one therapist helpful, it's worth trying some more as it can take a while to find one that you click with.

A therapist would be a better use of his money I think, and I say that as someone who has seen private consultants.

Consultant-wise he needs to keep pushing the NHS. If he's seen one consultant and hasn't found them useful, he could ask to change consultants and see another.

When I mention therapy I mean for him. Couples counselling won't help because the problem is with him and his behaviour, you're doing nothing wrong (unless you choose to get back with someone who can act like that towards your DC.)

I mean, I bet that image sticks in your mind anyway, but whenever you feel tempted to get back with him, remember it.

The person who should love your children unconditionally and protect them with every fibre (and yes I have been diagnosed with depression and know the hell that it is) is yelling at them and calling them vile names. No second chances, he has to go and sod him.

You have done exactly the right thing taking the opportunity for him to leave. Your childrens needs must come first. Don't push for couples counselling, many counsellors start from the position that both sides are equally responsible and you may be asked to make all sorts of accomodations that you don't want to and won't ultimatelysatisfy your H until he gets his anger and depression under control. I'd use this time to see a solicitor, use the benefit calculators, get the DC's passports in order etc and if you can afford it get some counselling for yourself as a kind of support. Don't force things, take things at your pace and if you can afford it buy in help e.g. do the DC need to go to after school care so you can earn? would a cleaner once a week really lighten your load? are there some extra curricula activities the DC don't really like and could drop to give you more family time and less running around? Simply stuff, make your life at bit easier in any way you can and "don't sweat the small stuff" with the DC.

Keep him well away from you all now and I would also now engage with a Solicitor re divorce proceedings.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.
I do not think he is infact depressed so much as abusive towards you all and that is why the anti depressants have not worked. What you've seen from him too is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one. Its always everyone else's fault except of course his. Abusive men are also volatile and he remains so.

And remember your words re your kids if you ever waiver going forward:-
" I ran up and they were crying and huddled together, all three holding hands whilst he raged".

This is NO relationship model to be showing them. You would not want your children to be in such a relationship as adults and its not good enough for you either. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is NONE.

What if anything do you yourself know about his own family background, that often gives clues.

You have a son that is being assessed for ASD - do you think your husband may have it? He appears to have long term problems managing stress and anxiety which never really go away.

His depression is a red herring. It's perfectly possible to have depression and not turn into a vile human being. He's giving you plenty of valid reasons to end the marriage.

Thank you all so much for replying, you have no idea how much it means. This morning we are leaving the holiday and he's been so nice and helpful and affectionate, and if I hadn't written it all down and got your responses, I'd be doubting myself again and thinking I must have overstated what happened and just need to try harder.

I don't have people to talk to in daily life, as none of our good friends or anyone in either of our families has separated, except one overseas aunt who left her alcoholic husband and promptly lost custody of her children. It's a very different mindset/culture that we were brought up in and I'm scared to death by the whole situation and feel frozen - and so ashamed that I did not stop this earlier.

@AnnaMagnani I have also wondered strongly if DH is has ASD - and that is why I also think he finds it so hard to cope with the noise and demands of three young children. I've found a psychiatrist near us who will take our private insurance and deals with adult anxiety and treatment-resistant depression and seems to also have an interest in adult ASD. He says he wants to go and I've set up an appointment for him, then it's over to him what he does, I'm so tired of running everything.

And to all the posters who said couples counsellijg isn't a good idea, that's really helpful and totally not what I'd thought. I'll try to find someone for me, I have a support thing through work that might be able to help.

Thank you again, so so much

Not sure depression alone makes you say something like that.

I think there also has to be a small dose of being a nasty piece of work in there too.

Mental illness might be an explanation but it’s not an excuse, not when something like this is the result.

Whoops sent too soon, I meant to add you’re doing a really good thing putting yourself and your children first. My advice is don’t take him back, this will happen again.