Pre nuptial agreement- any experience?

[Impatient37]

Hi, has anyone any experience of this?
Apparently my partner would like one, we have been together for 8 years and have 2 small children. We have been engaged for 4 years and plan to marry at last later this year. My first reaction is upset/humiliated/outraged. If I’m being objective I can understand his point to some degree, but I’m his long term partner and mother of his 2 children, it’s not as though we’ve just met, and he’s made his money mostly in the years we’ve been together whilst I stayed at home with the children. He’s been though a horrible bitter divorce before, otherwise I don’t think he would feel it necessary. I’m with him for love not money and I think I’ve proved that over the years, but if the worst happened I would want what was fair given we’ve built a family and life together. I don’t think he wants to cut me off with nothing. That would be another matter. And I know everything he has will end up with the 2 children (and his one older child) one day one way or another whether we are together or not, so that’s the main thing. But he does want to protect some things, mainly his businesses I think. I need him to clarify but initial discussions have not gone well because I was so upset.
Anyone have any experience of this? What did your agreement cover? Did you feel it like was fair to both parties? Did your relationship survive any initial bad feeling around this? Can it even be a positive thing for both parties?
Thanks if you’ve read this far.

@Saraban thanks, gosh you must see this kind of thing all the time. Are people often as blindsided as me by the suggestion? Do clients in my position end up happy with the agreement do you think?

It’s just an initial consultation tomorrow with one of the firms I spoke to today. I know we will both need separate legal advice to draw up/review an agreement.

I’m not sure I can get any solid advice until I know what he would want to include in an agreement, but I’m hoping to at least understand the process and perhaps understand what is usually considered ‘fair’ in law in a split.
I feel like if I can at least understand what’s reasonable/usual in law, I’ll feel better or at least more in control about what we agree.

If you can think of any bedtime reading on the topic that I can look up, please do shout!

If you have money coming your way, as a woman you need to be sure you aren't signing up to potentially little from him in exchange for all your domestic services through to old age and death + he get half your inheritance.

This is very one sided. Given you could have your own independent funds on inheritance (do you own property already?) I would think about whether marriage is actually beneficial in your situation.

He had a business, but COVID. Who knows how that will be in 6 months. Potentially, you could find yourself taking care of, educating and housing the kids AND paying him out for a divorce plus solicitors fees.

[quote Impatient37]@Twizbe thank you it’s really good to hear your view as someone who’s done it. That is a very good point. I would also be in favour of agreeing certain money to go ‘only to’ the children. I suppose when life changes or people get new partners in future that money could end up elsewhere if it’s not ring fenced. You say you considered it, did you get advice and go ahead or did you leave it?[/quote]
I left final say up to my husband and he couldn't be bothered to do it so we didn't. However we have a similar clause written into our wills. I can't leave this property to anyone other than our children and neither can he.

OP this man clearly doesn't trust you and wants more control over what he sees as his assets despite your own contribution towards them, which prenup matters aside, does not bode well for any long term partnership. There's nothing about divorce which means his older child can't be provided for (he should be currently paying maintenance anyway which he is free to voluntarily increase anytime, his previous divorce settlement would have taken into account the child's needs, he can set up a savings account in their name for them, and he can also make a will after marriage to you, which as a legal document would do a much better job than any prenup in helping ensure anything he wants the older child to inherit/be given is protected). Considering the 9 years you've already invested in him and your lives together, you should really be pushing to go into this marriage as a joint unit without all this prenup nonsense, like the vast majority of couples getting married in this country are. This is a very sad situation to be in because by agreeing to be unmarried while having kids with him and helping him make his money, you essentially handed over all your cards and power to him and he knows it. I expect you're worried he will threaten to walk away from the marriage altogether if you don't go along with a prenup. Wish you all the best with it.

Why make such a drama of it?

In my country it is perfectly normal to do one, or not. It's all legally binding.

No-one bats an eyelid to make either decision. It can be very useful to have one, for either side. Or not. Whatever floats your boat.

Ideally you should of got married before having children and then either would not have this problem or it would of been highlighted earlier, as it is it sounds as if he has been married and has children from a previous relationship and has likely been stung, so he is rightly so protecting what he brought into the relationship before you met, unfortunately you have given up alot financially looking after your kids and that should be taken into consideration especially if he has eanrt quite a bit during that time, this should have of been discussed before the children were born, as it stands it is almost to late, also later on in life his will he will likely leave half if not more to his first son when the time comes, you and the kids will likely have to share the rest.

in divorce, usuall 'fair' amount is what you aer used to i marriage - they see your average yearly expenditure. If he provided it and you were sahm then you would e getting the same as maintenance untill you aer remarried, that's uite straight forwarded (or a one off settlement depensing on how long the marriage was), but it's more complicated if you either contributed financially during marriage or are about to inherit anyrhing signinficant, it's then all harder to calculate. So a fair pre nup would be on those lines.

expenditure without the upkeep of children, that is.

*quite straight-forward

I wouldn't be offended or hurt. As your partner and his ex spent a long time and lots of money trying to sort things out, he is just trying to protect you all from the stress involved with a repeat of that.

@londonscalling thank you, I am trying to see it that way too.

I’d like to see them become legally binding in the UK. I think both men and women should be able to protect their assets when entering into marriage. If he’s worked hard for his business it’s not hard to see why he wants to protect it.

He could simply choose not to get married and protect himself that way too.

We didn't do it in the end as he knew i would tell his family which would have looked absolutely terrible for him so he never pushed it beyond the initial discussions. We had been together so long plus I had contributed massively to his wealth.
I would never ever count on inheritance so would never use a potential as a reason not to get married. Prenups are taken into account but not legally binding so I would get married even if you have to sign one as you will be in a far better position than not being married
Where I am from I would have got about a third (min) even not being married so I suppose he felt it wasn't a massively difference to being married.
You will be massively disadvantaged by not being married but all this about protecting the children, what about you? that was always my issue, the kids would be millionaires and I would be a pauper. Fair enough setting something aside for his other child but I wouldn't roll over on this one

@Saraban

Good update and I like your message.

What I don't understand is women having children before they get married and therefore have pretty much zilch rights. Understand if they are rich themselves but is rarely the case

all workshy4, there is some protection in Scotland.

@workshy44 thanks, you’re absolutely right and I do want to protect my own interests in this agreement (so does he, so he says, it’s not just for the children, it’s to cover how we would split everything in the event the worst happened.) Either way even with a prenup we are better married one way or another as you say.

Its all about timing in a lot of ways. I can't believe when i look back how financially vulnerable I was and I didn't wake up until he started sniffing around a 24 year old Croatian. He didn't want to break which was the only advantage I had. I was also still semi valuable to his business and it would have been bad timing if I left. He has assets of 15 million + and I literally had a good pension and that was it.
Don't wait until your power has waned and to be honest once they can sense you are on the back foot they act like it too. He is a completely different person now we are married (so much nicer) than when we were negotiating things (total asshole) It took everything I had to hang in there. We are equal now and he knows I can walk away just as easily as he can.

A good friend of mine had one as she had around 1 million assets and her husband had absolutely zero, she had a child from her late husband, he had a child from a previous marriage. So obviously she had to protect her child's inheritance. No shared children. So very reasonable in her circumstances. The negotiations were absolutely bloody though.

In your situation, your boyfriend is being a cock. I'd be focussing on my own financial independence rather than marriage, now he's told you who he really is.

You put yourself (and your DC) at huge financial risk by SAH when you weren’t married.

Your DP clearly wants to protect his financial security and has much less regard for yours.

We had a prenup when we got married but as we had no children at the time it was a different set of circumstances to you.

If your partner is serious he will instruct his solicitor to prepare the pre nup which will be sent to your solicitor for review. They will go back and forth on the negotiations until everyone is happy and it gets signed.

It’s a fairly long miserable process, yours will be much more complex and likely emotive given the children and step child to consider. It was an extreme test of our relationship and trust in one another and to be honest I did debate cancelling the wedding at one point but as my solicitor pointed out I was far better off married with the prenup than unmarried without.

Our circumstances have changed significantly since our prenup 3 years ago and it’s barely worth the paper it’s written on. Our solicitors would recommend a post nup now but we agreed at the time of our prenup there would be no post nups. It stands now as a useful record of what we entered the marriage with but that’s it.

Yours will be different because of the children and again your solicitor would likely advise subsequent post nups as your kids get older and your circumstances change. They are depressing and further post nups will be very expensive. If really depends on how big the assets are to protect whether it’s worth bothering with. Our prenup cost £5/6k if I remember rightly.

@byvirtue thanks for your response, it’s really good to hear someone else’s experience of the process. Yes I think it’s more complicated because of the children but sounds like some of the emotions you went though are similar. It’s also very interesting to hear that after X years it’s barely relevant and needs updating. I was advised this today by a solicitor as well, I can imagine that’s the case for most people as things change. Thanks for sharing your experience, it’s really helpful

If you split up you are probably in a stronger position married with a pre nup than not married at all

For everyone who posted their experience of prenups - thank you, it was most helpful to hear.
For everyone who chipped in only to say I’ve been foolish, ‘put my children at risk‘, or that he is ‘sick’ as one person said - I honestly don’t know why you felt the need to comment.

Yes I realise it’s simpler to get married before children!! Tell me something I don’t know.

Most women I know spent our decade after Uni making money, buying our own houses, travelling, being independent. It wasn’t about ‘find a man- and make sure he marries you!’ By the time I met my partner we were reasonably equal, and having children and various other things took priority because of our ages. Yes I now wish we’d married sooner. I would advise a daughter differently in future. I’m sure she would think it terribly old fashioned as I probably did when I was younger. No I am not happy at the idea of a prenup because of what it implies about our future and the very notion of it. But I do understand his position re setting out what would happen with everything now. The business is about more than just us, it employs a lot of people. At no point has he suggested I’d get nothing. It’s about setting out terms now to avoid future battles if the worst happened. As I say, it upsets me thinking about it, but we all know relationships break down so I can’t hand on heart say he’s wrong to want this.

I wasn’t asking for opinions on our life choices or mistakes. Just for anyone’s experience of the process and how it went for them.

For the record - I’m not an idiot, I’m not ‘foolish’ or ‘passive’. I sought proper legal advice immediately when he said this - I wasn’t asking for that on mumsnet.
I still have my own property, annual income, savings, pensions and inheritance in future. I am educated, experienced, and can return to work whenever I like. I’m not in domestic servitude as someone suggested!

I had children knowing both parents would be capable of looking after them. My children are not going to be destitute. And for me the best proof of whether he would look after the children in the event of a split rather than ‘leave us high and dry’ as one person said, is the way he treats his first child, with equal provision already made for all 3 children in life and upon our deaths. No judge made him do this, it’s entirely his choice.

We're commenting OP because the fact your DP wants a prenup in your circumstances is very indicative of how he views you and it's important to go in with your eyes wide open. You're not some random woman he met in a club 6 months ago who he decided to marry and therefore wants a prenup. You've been together for 8 years, you have joint kids with him, and crucially you said yourself that he made most of this money while with you and while you were at home looking after his kids.
The other thing is that "marriage is just a piece of paper" is a common lie trotted out nowadays (including by women in relationships) and in the main, perpetuating this lie only benefits men, to the detriment of women and children. Others will be reading this thread and you're just one example of why marriage is so relevant and important and as you say, we need to spread the word. It literally takes only a minute of googling to find clear info e.g. on Citizens Advice on legal differences between the cohabiting and marriage which comes up as a top serach result. I spent more time deciding what pair of jeans to buy online than it took me to find the relevant info on a big life decision and we have to ask why some women don't see this as a priority to read about when jumping into these situations. Most men in contrast seem to have no problem knowing or finding out this info, hence why many of them stall so much on proposing/marriage. We need women to wise up and protect themselves and their kids.