Marriage advice

[Bovis173]

Currently undergoing a bit of a marriage crisis and wanted to see if anyone had any useful thoughts on this.

I am mid 30s and have been married for 6 years although my wife and I have been together for 14 years in total.

Up until we had our second child we had a very happy relationship. Both had jobs which fulfilled us (by and large) and whilst stressful, we came together at weekends and socialised a lot together. Even after our first child arrived, this largely stayed the same. My wife found it very difficult indeed with our first child but we worked together to get through that difficult time. She has real anxiety issues which mean she finds babies very stressful and coupled with lack of sleep our first baby was a trial but we got through it. A real theme of our relationship is that I have had to support my wife a lot as she has previously found like stressful, anxiety inducing, etc, and so has struggled to be independent. So (and my wife would freely admit this) she has relied on me a lot. She also comes from a culture and a family where putting people outside the core family first at the expense of the core family is the norm, so often she will choose to avoid upsetting some fairly random person at the expense of me (which wasn't ever really a problem when we had more time to put ourselves first i.e. pre-children!).

Our second hasn't been such a challenge although lack of sleep has again been a very big issue! He is now 2 so just about getting through the baby phase.

However it feels like everything has somehow lost its "equilibrium" in our relationship. Before our second child was born, we moved to a new village and my wife has thrown herself into socialising with gusto, which I was really supportive of as I just wanted her to be happy.

Now, it feels like I work all week for her to socialise with people. My job is really full on (I work say 8-8) but it affords us a lovely house in a lovely village and my wife sufficient spare money to really do what she likes. We also have a cleaner.

The reason I feel like we have lost equilibrium is that rather than feeling like a team I feel like a beast of burden whose seemingly only role in life is to support her socialising, and don't feel that the sacrifices I have to make are really appreciated. I have read various articles about the tensions of a stay at home parent / working parents and I don't really recognise them because:

1. Money pressure isn't a thing in our relationship (100% down to my job);

1. I am not blind to the drudgery of "keeping a house" and caring for two small children but having worked from home now for a while its clear the majority of my wife's week is socialising of some form (albeit with the kids which I know is a stress) - she will have a minimum of one social plan a day. So I don't really recognise the drudgery of parenting a child solo that some articles suggest;

1. Career - my wife loves her career as a teacher but has no desire to progress beyond classroom teacher and so it genuinely is something she can go back to later on. So (at least she says) it doesn't seem a big upset that she has had to leave that behind.

I guess equilibrium is the word I keep going back to because the result of this is that my wife is really happy at the moment OTHER than with me (or at least when I am grumpy), whereas I am unhappy and this clearly makes me someone you don't want to spend time with.

I guess the issue is, how do you ever solve that? It hasn't been that long running an issue but my wife is bored with me being unhappy essentially because it gets in the way of her happiness (and to be fair, because it is boring!). As I said above, in most of our relationship I have supported her to the point where I think she hasn't put me first for so long I think she has forgotten how to.

My issue is I can't continue like this. How do I make my wife see that my happiness is her happiness, because if I leave the marriage or quit my job then everything blows up, without it coming across as coercive or some kind of blackmail? She is very naïve financially so not sure she actually understands this.

P.s. I haven't mentioned the kids in this because we do parent jointly and harmoniously (largely!) but they are clearly a factor in me wanting to stick around!

You tell her you are thinking of getting an easier job so you can have more time with her and the kids because you feel like all you ever do is “provide” and that the stress of your job is eating away at you. You see how she reacts and you go from there.

What do you consider socialising? Is it meeting friends with kids at soft play or being a 'lady who lunches'? Is she supposed to sit at home with dc all day until you return and then show 'appreciation' for you working all day? How would you like this appreciation shown to you? That she rushes to you on your return with praise for you going out to work and a gin and tonic 1950s housewife style?

You admit you're grumpy and not the nicest person to be around, but expect her to 'put you first'. First? Above the dc, above herself? Your unhappiness is boring, but what is causing that? It seems to be her lack of 'appreciation', and you're coming across as sulky.

You're also coming across as a rescuer who now resents that she doesn't need you as much as she did and is no longer reliant solely on you for support and her happiness. Instead you should appreciate that she has become less anxious, less dependent and is happy.

You want her happiness to be dependent on your happiness. But don't seem to recognise this goes both ways. You say you want her to be happy, but obviously only if that happiness is dependent on you.

@Thingsdogetbetter

What do you consider socialising? Is it meeting friends with kids at soft play or being a 'lady who lunches'? Is she supposed to sit at home with dc all day until you return and then show 'appreciation' for you working all day? How would you like this appreciation shown to you? That she rushes to you on your return with praise for you going out to work and a gin and tonic 1950s housewife style?

You admit you're grumpy and not the nicest person to be around, but expect her to 'put you first'. First? Above the dc, above herself? Your unhappiness is boring, but what is causing that? It seems to be her lack of 'appreciation', and you're coming across as sulky.

You're also coming across as a rescuer who now resents that she doesn't need you as much as she did and is no longer reliant solely on you for support and her happiness. Instead you should appreciate that she has become less anxious, less dependent and is happy.

You want her happiness to be dependent on your happiness. But don't seem to recognise this goes both ways. You say you want her to be happy, but obviously only if that happiness is dependent on you.

Agree with this!

Its a fair point actually and a really interesting perspective, so thank you (which is why I posted as well - sometimes you need an unbiased perspective on these things). Its definitely the case that for a LONG time my wife has been dependent on me because of her anxiety, which I thought I found difficult but to a certain degree it must have been fulfilling as well (or at least, gave me a focus and a role). For example, it used to be the case that she wouldn't sleep without me being in the house at all, and would follow me when I was out on tracking apps - which at the time I thought I found very challenging. Up until maybe six months ago, she didn't ever want me to leave her alone with the kids. I wasn't really allowed to do my own things, because of the stress it put on her. She wouldn't ever really do anything in terms of hobbies and interest etc because of her anxiety, however much I encouraged her. So there was that dependency on both sides created.

But we have worked together to try and make that no longer be the case, for her own good really (I mean, a lot of it wasn't healthy for her). She finished therapy for her anxiety the back end of last year and is clearly now in MUCH more positive place.

I think what's interesting it has got to the point at which there no longer is that dependency on her part, I guess the answer is there actually is a sense of loss on my part because for so long she wanted me to look after her, really to my own detriment at times, and now she has overcome that, I need to see it as positive (which it is) and fulfil myself in other ways.

So then a second question. Having been in a relationship where the dependency was there, if you break out of that and pursue your own interests, how do you stay connected still? I guess the answer is to fulfill yourself but make sure you enjoy the time you have together?

You’ve made a few interesting points here.
One is that your wife was unhappy and had anxiety. You helped her with this and she is now happy again. Part of her daily socializing I would also say is part of her happiness and as I’m guessing this is child focused socializing is is also helping towards the happiness of your children. As other posters have commented trying to prevent a small child from jumping in a duck pond or telling your child off for biting their friend is maybe not top of her list of how to spend her time.
The second point you make is that YOU are also not happy. I’m guessing that this is down to the pressure you feel from being the sole provider for your family. This is not unreasonable reason to feel stressed.
Your unhappiness is also linked to the resentment you feel towards your wife that you are doing all the hard work while she goes out and has a nice time. You feel there’s the unequalness in your relationship.
You need to think about what ‘good’ would actually look like. You both working, you working less hours, you both having time to socialize for example. How would you actually achieve this? Ie wife goes beck to work, you get new job less hours.
If your wife went back to work full or part time, how much better off would you be financially after paying for child care (not sure of the ages of your children) which could be nursery, child minder or after school/ breakfast club. Would this actually help you financially? If she was working would that mean that you could work less? I’m guessing your hours are part and parcel of your job so even if she was working your hours wouldn’t be reduced. Would you get a different job with less hours? You also say you work 8-8. Who makes the dinner in the evening, puts the kids to bed? If she was also working you would need to change your working hours to accommodate this. Who would be doing the child care drop offs and pick ups? Could you also accommodate this into your schedule?
If you were to be made redundant, if she went straight into supply teaching, would that be enough to cover the bills? If it does, would that reduce the pressure you feel from ‘what if I lose my job?’ Have an honest discussion with her that you feel stressed about the pressure you feel at being the main provider and set a plan in place for if it does go wrong (I would only mention redundancy not what would happen if you split up).
You also need to be less of a grump, who wants to have people round or go on a nice day out if the other is sulking in the corner? You need to bring some joy into your life, do you have any of your own friends in the village, or a hobby or interest? If not how would you go about changing this?

If I were you, I would ask your wife to join you for some couples therapy. I think your issues can be resolved, but not with the trouble you have communicating.

@Notjustabrunette

You’ve made a few interesting points here. One is that your wife was unhappy and had anxiety. You helped her with this and she is now happy again. Part of her daily socializing I would also say is part of her happiness and as I’m guessing this is child focused socializing is is also helping towards the happiness of your children. As other posters have commented trying to prevent a small child from jumping in a duck pond or telling your child off for biting their friend is maybe not top of her list of how to spend her time. The second point you make is that YOU are also not happy. I’m guessing that this is down to the pressure you feel from being the sole provider for your family. This is not unreasonable reason to feel stressed. Your unhappiness is also linked to the resentment you feel towards your wife that you are doing all the hard work while she goes out and has a nice time. You feel there’s the unequalness in your relationship. You need to think about what ‘good’ would actually look like. You both working, you working less hours, you both having time to socialize for example. How would you actually achieve this? Ie wife goes beck to work, you get new job less hours. If your wife went back to work full or part time, how much better off would you be financially after paying for child care (not sure of the ages of your children) which could be nursery, child minder or after school/ breakfast club. Would this actually help you financially? If she was working would that mean that you could work less? I’m guessing your hours are part and parcel of your job so even if she was working your hours wouldn’t be reduced. Would you get a different job with less hours? You also say you work 8-8. Who makes the dinner in the evening, puts the kids to bed? If she was also working you would need to change your working hours to accommodate this. Who would be doing the child care drop offs and pick ups? Could you also accommodate this into your schedule? If you were to be made redundant, if she went straight into supply teaching, would that be enough to cover the bills? If it does, would that reduce the pressure you feel from ‘what if I lose my job?’ Have an honest discussion with her that you feel stressed about the pressure you feel at being the main provider and set a plan in place for if it does go wrong (I would only mention redundancy not what would happen if you split up). You also need to be less of a grump, who wants to have people round or go on a nice day out if the other is sulking in the corner? You need to bring some joy into your life, do you have any of your own friends in the village, or a hobby or interest? If not how would you go about changing this?

Thanks, this does make a lot of sense. I appreciate the input as its really cathartic. My wife often bemoans the fact that men often find it difficult to have emotional conversations (if I told all my male friends, I would be very surprised if I got much better than grunts!). Its nice to have some honest advice that doesn't have a personal agenda.

Its interesting someone said that we have issues communicating when I think one of the strengths in our relationship has (genuinely) always been the amount we communicate and talk things through. We had a stillborn child 7 years ago and got through that very much together. Its just broken down somewhat in the last few weeks (and I accept that its my fault here, actually - deep down I guess I always knew that).

The solution we have worked through together was that now that we have worked through her anxiety, and we are out of the baby phase, I need to go and do things for myself rather than just being her support network and doing things together. Its odd, because pre-children (pre-stillbirth, probably more accurately) I had a very active social life, lots of interests, hobbies, etc. I just lost them all because I had to put other people first (which was the right thing to do then), but now need to draw a line under that and move on and see the positives rather than being resentful and grumpy about it. I have started taking positive steps in that direction, actually (joining the village cricket club, learning to drive again).

I have been pondering this a bit today and I think its interesting to frame it as going from being forced to be a protector after our stillbirth and throughout the baby phase, to (I guess subconsciously) actually embracing that role, to coming out of that finally now. Which in a way, has got an element of loss even though I would never have thought of it like that. But the way to see it, I think, is to see it as a positive that that loss can be replaced with other, more healthy things.

P.s. on work, sadly I don't see a solution to that. I cant work less (job is very high pressured and client led), and if I did choose to "trade down" jobs I know my wife would have to go back to work / we would have to leave this lovely but expensive village - which would be bad for both her and the kids. At the end of the day, my stress gives 3 other people a very pleasant existence compared to that which they would have if I "traded down". I just need to accept that but find some space for myself now it is possible.

How can you parent jointly when you work 8-8? Fair enough you provide but it’s practically impossible that you also parent on an equal basis so that makes me think you miss how much she does. Also you say she socialises with the kids, well do you not socialise with colleagues when you are at work (in usual times) would you prefer she dealt with kids entirely alone?
Sorry but you sound a little bitter that she’s happy, maybe you preferred it when she was anxious and not socialising.

Sorry to be harsh I only read your initial post, reading subsequent ones I can see how reasonable you are. And it is pretty miserable working so long hours and feeling like (or actually) missing out on much of the good things in life.

I think you’ve come up with some really positive next steps. Remember it’s not just your wife and kids who get to live in the nice house and village, you do to. Ok so you might not be able to enjoy it so much during the week but at the weekends you should absolutely build a life for yourself. Joint the cricket team, invite people round for a bbq, go to the local pub. You’re working hard for this life style, enjoy it!
It sounds like you and your wife have been through a lot, and small children in the mix and move the focus from your relationship to the children. Have you considered counseling? It might work as a safe environment for you both to open up.

It seems like now your wife is independent and enjoying the life you have provided for her you feel left behind and marginalised.
This isn’t a criticism if you, your feelings are valid.
My advice would be to talk to your wife about how you can both work on becoming more connected as a team together.

I feel like a beast of burden whose seemingly only role in life is to support her socialising, and don't feel that the sacrifices I have to make are really appreciated.
If you can't change your job, how do you think you could change this - the appreciation part? Both on her side and on yours?
To me it sounds as if she really, really appreciates the fact that she is in a nice place, with nice friends. Her socialising and happiness show that she loves it. Do you want her to thank you for it, is that the issue?
Do you make it obvious to her that you think she should be more grateful? If so, how? Nicely?

I cant work less (job is very high pressured and client led), and if I did choose to "trade down" jobs I know my wife would have to go back to work / we would have to leave this lovely but expensive village - which would be bad for both her and the kids. At the end of the day, my stress gives 3 other people a very pleasant existence compared to that which they would have if I "traded down".
Is trading down the only option? You couldn't find a well-paying job with better hours? What made you decide to take on a job that doesn't give you any free time? Did your wife make you?