Ending a relationship that is just not good enough but not awful

[Sparklyboots]

I have been in a relationship with DP for 12 years and we have two children, 9 and 7.

Things have been crap for years, and I have gone in and out of thinking I should end it except my circumstances are tricky (we are in London in a HA place) and also I just feel somehow that I should stay with him, because all the things I really don't like I already knew about and had children with him. He hardly earns but doesn't like doing childcare (to be fair, I didn't know he'd be so shit with childcare because just assumed he would accept he had to do some with me doing all the earning). He is an arse to live with, huffy, sometimes won't speak to me for days because I haven't done enough cleaning, he is not great with the kids and very critical of me and DS9. I think he is pathologically self interested, he can't hear anything except in how it relates to himself. So hyperthetically if I said 'It would be nice to have more space on the floor' he'd take that as meaning I was having a go about him not making enough space or something. It's beyond boring and I can no longer be arsed to explain my good intentions, he just thinks I am a harpy out to attack him. I had a miscarriage last year and he was awful, he admitted he thought I was trying to manipulate him by crying (he couldn't imagine my crying was not about him, iyswim). We are on completely different wavelengths, I am booky with PG degrees and he left school with no qualifications.

All this is the bed that I made. I didn't expect him to earn, I didn't have a conversation about childcare, he was criticising me on our first date, he was always behaving like I was just a convenience rather than something he valued and I accepted it. We have had some awful rows. If I want anything out of the relationship I know I have to engage in making it happen, so over the years he has accepted doing more childcare and tried to earn more money. He has gone to counselling and some of his most glacial huffs have become less and less frequent.

But I just can't be bothered any more. Every tiny interaction needs such vigilance and I am exhausted and bored of it all. However I feel massive guilt about ending it, like I should stay and work at it. And when I say that some of the work would be getting him more engaged in stuff so he changes some of his behaviours and some of the work would be for example accepting that we are never going to have a great conversation about something I am interested in and he will always be late and I should organise my life to minimise the impact of that on me.

It just takes so much out of me to get just basic level respect and being treated like an equal, He's not an evil man, he is just basically uninterested in me (he has literally never asked about previous boyfriends or my life before I moved toLondon, for example - he is just not interested. If I do talk about this stuff it's all one way until I stop talking). He doesn't want to be horrible but he also doesn't want to put in any effort. I think with effort we MIGHT make it all work (but the different wavelengths stuff is significant) but it will only be me doing it and if I don't we will just run on inertia barely speaking until we die. I feel humiliated that he sees so little value in me that if I want the relationship I basically have to do my bit and his bit.

Is it okay to end a relationship and cause so much turmoil for the children and him (he will take it very badly). Or should I stay and make it work or at least not trash it given than I don't really have the capacity or inclination to make it work any more?

what you describe is no life. It may well impact your daughter way more than you realise. Right now you are teaching her that this is what relationships look like and that this is ok. Do you really want her to have this as her model of a relationship to emulate when she's older? She's learning that women should do everything with minimal practical or financial input from a dead weight partner, and that it is okay for a woman to have to carefully manage her partner's behaviour to avoid unpleasantness.

To me it seems she has as much to gain as your son.

Good on you @Sparklyboots

You’ve done loads & are taking the steps to do what is right for everyone . It might not seem it now but what you’re doing is not just for you — it’s for your DCs and for your partner too. He’ll be better off too. Much love & courage to you.

OP, please read back your own posts and take some time to ponder, as hells bells would advise you if she was on this thread, what you learned about relationships growing up to make you think that this is not an awful relationship. It is.

• he doesn't pull his weight, either with earning or childcare
• he's huffy (sulks? silent treatment)
• clearly he expects you to do most of the housework as well as being sole earner
• drains the joy out of your existence
• is self-interested to the exclusion of any curiosity about you
• doesn't give you basic level respect or treat you as an equal
• plays golden child/scapegoat with your children.

Please, kick this vile man to the kerb. And don't leave your HA home for him if it doesn't suit you to do so, why can't he leave?

Following closely

Wow, the golden child comment really cut deep. I was scapegoat in my family. If I only do it for them, that is enough.

I was at food bank today at the end when they had loads of short date non-halal meat and when I got back I said to DP that if we had a freezer we could have taken tons. We then had a conversation about where one could go. He then said "Does this mean you are staying?" (I told him weeks ago that I wanted to move out). So I said no, I still want to go and I don't want to be in a couple with him any more. He was very sad and saying how we can work it out and how he still wants to be in a couple. And I said that he had been saying this stuff for years and nothing changed and he hadn't actually tried anything. He said he thought I had needed space. I feel bad but also furious. He only says this sort of stuff if he thinks it will stop me leaving,

Anyway I stuck to my guns even though he was very upset and asking to work on things. I feel shot about this but I have heard it before. It doesn't mean he will work on things, it means he will go along with proposals I make for "improvements" but we will in any case drift back to dull, not talking, not connecting etc. The only thing we ever enjoyed was holidays and apart from the sex I would have enjoyed them more if he wasn't there.

Also following.. in a similar situation

He seems to have no idea what comprises a good relationship. So he presumably thinks he's an excellent partner who has nothing to improve on, and all he needs to do is hold on until you stop spitting the dummy out and realise that you have to stay with him.

If he knows what he ought to be doing, yet doesn't do it, is that worse or better than him genuinely not knowing what he's doing wrong?

Good luck.

I think many people settle and stick with what they know even when they aren't happy - hence they have affairs

I also think some people are scared of being alone so will stick it out with someone rather than be alone. I know a number of people like this

I don't think I am sacred of being alone but I have issues around feeling responsible for everyone, always being dependable, organised, supportive, and self-sufficient. This means that he isn't a partner but dependent of mine, certainly emotionally, often financially (although he is earning a bit at the moment whereas my business is closed because the station we are on in closed).

We have talked in the past about this and he says he wants to be a support but he actually has no clue how to do it. He got annoyed when family members of mine "showed no concern" about him being in lock down on his own (me and the children were at my mums for the first 3 months as we were there when it started). But he showed literally no concern for them either, not noticing or caring about DB''s cancelled wedding. When I pointed this out he still felt they should have been concerned over him. Nevermind that he has not in any way cultivated a relationship with any of them where they might call each other to catch up, nevermind that they might have been concerned about me having to manage the kids without him, he honestly was affronted that they weren't concerned about him. The only thing that made him give up was pointing out that no member of his family rang to see how I was doing with the kids and I wasn't going to hold him responsible. At that point he conceded that I should not be held responsible for the shortcomings of my family. I sincerely doubt he will be addressing his own family''s lack of interest in me as a result of this, either.

Anyway my point is expecting this man to move into enlightened interdependence is stupid of me , but since the dynamic is I am responsible for him it is quite hard to untangle myself. My best friend just keeps saying, "Sparkly, he's an adult'. But try telling him that

The great thing about splitting up means it isn't your problem anymore!!

@Sparklyboots

I understand how you feel. I highly recommend you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie.

Whose name is on the HA agreement? Why should you be the one to leave? Would he even be entitled to stay there on his own?

Yes, it's his flat and his tenancy with HA, even though we wrote 10 yrs ago to say I was there and I have paid the rent the whole time since then. They address me as Mr DP in all correspondence, even when I write "Sincerely Ms Sparkly' throughout.

I am listening to Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay at the moment, it's eye-opening, really clarifying. Believe it or not I am fully conversant in codependence, my DF was an alcoholic. I am quite good at refusing his direct attempts at taking blame for his emotional state but have picked up all the practical stuff. I also ignore his huffs, or directly address them.

But the issue for me is probably related to a dynamic in my birth family, where I believed I would be unsafe unless my DM depended on me in some way. Consequently, someone depending on me feels like love. I don't think it's the same as codependence because I don't farm out my sense of emotional wellbeing to him or the kids, I can take them being unhappy or moody or angry and do not feel responsible for preventing them from feeling negative feelings, nor do I feel their behaviour towards me is a reflection on me, though obviously this was the mistake I made entering the relationship. I am aware that DP thinks I am responsible for his unhappiness or whatever but I don't accept that I am. This has been the source of arguments in the past, less so now as I just leave him to his beliefs more, I don't try to argue him out of them as much. The issue where he was trying to make me feel guilty because my family members hadn't looked after him during lock down I couldn't leave alone because I was just so completely pissed off by his entitled self centredness. Most of the time I'd roll my eyes and tell him something along the lines of "okay so it's my fault that you feel x", "are you telling me you think its my role to tell x how to relate to you?" or in relation to the kids "right so the 9 yr old is responsible for your feelings or behaviour, is he?"

In many ways I suppose the relationship is ending as I shed all the layers of codependence and really untangle the dynamics of my birth family. None of these issues are DPS fault in that sense and I brought my issues into the relationship and now I don't want to continue to make decisions based on my past... in this sense I feel sorry for DP caught in the cross fire of my own personal journey. He doesn't mean to be a twat. It's all he knows how to do

It why do you feel sorry for him when he is willing bringing his issues to the relationship in equal measure to you?

He can help being a twat, he can look at himself and decide to change like you are... it is his choice to take zero responsibility for himself and being that to all his current relationships!

Quit feeling sorry for him, he isn't an innocent victim! If you believe he is then so are you...

You are right. I have had a walk and a think about this and I see that I am not treating him like an equal grown-up to me. In a sense, this is me infantilising him at the same time as viewing myself as more developed/ mature etc. It is not very respectful or even kind. Of course I have a whole tale about how kind I am, a sort of Angel complex where I give more to others more that they are "able" to give to me. But it would be more respectful to others if I recognised that I give to others more than they choose to give to me. I am feeling pretty exposed by thinking of it in this way. Obviously I get a sense of comfort out of my Angel status but really it's a disguised form of superiority complex

Or is it just because that is you reliving your childhood role where you were being responsible for the adults which is deeply damaging and the only way you feel loved??

Stop giving yourself a hard time.

Stop trying to understand the deeply complex dynamics.

You have recognised it is deeply unhealthy and miserable.

Focus your thoughts and energies on leaving.

Leave "therapy" for after you have left and before you consider dating again.

You sound a bit up and down at the minute.
I would be confused over the freezer statement "when I got back I said to DP that if we had a freezer we could have taken tons".
Then he pointed out that a couple of weeks earlier you said you wanted to leave? Then next minute you are making references to 'we'.
I wonder are you making threats to leave and move out to your DP as a way to express your anger to him, rather than a real intention to leave. If you had a real intention to leave why would you tell him for weeks and months beforehand? What is the function of that behaviour? To make him suddenly notice your hurt and repent or get a start on dividing up your DVDs?
I am reading books on codependence at the minute too, so I really get this confusion and the uncomfortable dawning of the realisation that my own inability to express my needs has allowed or even encouraged the selfish behaviour of others - mostly my DH and my teenage son. I am a Caretaker and my instinct is to create people in my life that need taking care of.
In my own home my Dad and brothers were treated like gods and tiptoed around and fetched and carried for. And so it is reborn in me!
But I'm learning and getting better and seeing a bit of light in how I can change.

Yes the freezer comment was a mistake. I immediately clarified for him. Otherwise I think I am being clear and have been clear about my anger in relation to the relationship. The reason it is taking me weeks to actually get out is because we live in central London and I haven't been able to find private tenancy I can afford. I have put in some applications and have been asked for 6mo up front, which I haven't got. Also the reason I was commenting how much we could have had from the food bank is that we have been scrabbling about for cash for food for weeks and planning meals has been an absolute headache because we have nothing left. It was just a bit frustrating to have to walk away from food that would have seen us through for weeks