Help with hoarder Mother

[Snoringferret]

My Mother has always been a hoarder, she hoards food, pets and things she'll think will be 'useful'.
She also hates the thought of people's collections being broken up so will buy collections of things she has no interest in. As a result the house is filthy, really really bad.
I love my mother very much but she was neglectful to me growing up and she is incapable of having a constructive conversation with because she just shuts down and cries and claims you're 'bullying her' if you ever put a boundary up.
She surrounds herself with enablers and is an arch manipulator, if you ever challenge her on her behaviour she'll just go to one of her enablers and say you're abusing her. I've actually been on both sides of this and it took me and some members of my family years to work out that she had been playing us off one another.

Despite all this when she's on form she's good fun and like I say, she's my mother and I love her. I've really missed her over lockdown so decided to go and stay at her house tonight.
She hasn't been able to have her cleaner in and when I opened the door I was really upset by the state of the house, it's disgusting. It smells and it's gotten completely out of control.
We ended up having an argument because I was trying to make dinner and the garlic was a year out of date and she wouldn't let me throw it away.
She made me feel like I was being completely out of order and she couldn't understand that I was upset because she was living this way and not being snobby about the garlic and I didn't even need the garlic, she ran weeping to the shops to 'get me new garlic' which made me feel awful, and rang me from the shops asking if it was ok that there wasn't any garlic at the shop and was I going to be annoyed (?)

I know all this sounds garbled but I don't know if I can really explain how she is, she kind of gaslights you into thinking you've been really aggressive if you ever disagree with her or challenge her.

I'm the only one of our relatives still in contact with her, no one else will visit her home because it's repulsive and they are tired of her behaviour. I was sick all the time as a child because of the mice and fleas and the house is literally falling apart.
She's hates living in her house and is trying to move but I honestly don't think she will ever be able to sell it without throwing some things away but when I say that she just cries and says I want her to live in a horrible house forever.

I don't really know why I'm posting here, I feel so tired of it and I feel really down and it affects the way I feel about myself so much.
I've had a lot of therapy but I just feel like I'm a horrible nasty bully and I feel worthless that my mother would choose pieces of tat over me.

Oh OP you sound like a saint for volunteering to stay the night in such a place and it must be so hard, I do see she's still your mum but she has let her own issues get in the way of being a good mum to you, both then and now. Is it possible to only see her on neutral territory and just remove her house from your thoughts entirely?

It’s tome to take a step back, as hard as that will be. She has chosen her stuff over you and will continue to do so. Ring the RSPAC or whatever animal charity you have where she lives and tell them about the conditions she is keeping her animals in. Invite her to your house but don’t get dragged into her clutter, it will just get you down and she won’t change for you.

Time

I know I should but I just worry about her getting older.
She's looking into buying a bigger home with a garage and extra bedrooms and it makes me so anxious because she'll have to remortgage when she's not in the best health and she'll have more room to fill with crap.
She's had a number of mental breakdowns in the past that have resulted in her having lots of debt and unable to deal with it.
I've already explained to her that I can't bail her out financially (my husband actually said he'd divorce me if I did which I think sounds harsh but is fair enough tbh) and I have nightmares about me having to deal with it all because she's too poorly or needs to go into care.

I know logically I should just walk away but on another level I feel that of course I feel like that because that's what bad people do they abandon their parents.

I am aware that when I talk about this I sound like a child but I am totally together in all other parts of my life I promise.

There's a gap between abandoning her and not bailing her out though. It doesn't sound like she would get a mortgage for a bigger house, if she has debt (does she work?) And how would she reach the point of being able to show the house?
How would it go if you invited her to yours, or only to meet in neutral places?

If she buys a bigger house, then yes, she will fill it with crap. Before she buys it, explain to her in very simple terms that you will not be able to bail her out should the worst happen. Your husband is right because your just throwing good money after bad. You absolutely don’t need to look after her or her house and tell her you won’t be doing so. If it gets to a stage were she can’t look after herself, it’s up to you to ring social services and let them know what going on and that you can’t look after her. They will do an assessment and will make sure she gets whatever care she needs. You are damaging your mental health by getting dragged into this, don’t let that happen, you have a choice! You absolutely don’t have to look after your mother or her house and you absolutely don’t need to feel bad about it either!

Unfortunately I think hoarders are similar in many ways to alcoholics and drug users, in that change only happens when they decide for themselves that the change is imperative for their survival. It’s hard enough to change yourself, it is impossible to change someone else. Well done you for staying in contact, please don’t beat yourself up over the situation, it’s clear others have been warn out by it, admitted defeat and now keep their distance. As suggested above try meeting somewhere else and go easy on yourself. It sounds like your mother needs professional help but again she needs to be ready to accept it, only she can make the change.

I wouldn’t worry about her moving, surely the house will never sell unless she makes serious changes?

Thanks everyone!

She isn't in as much debt anymore as she was bailed out by a family member. But at the time she racked up loads and has manic episodes where she spends recklessly, then claims to have been coheresed or unable to remember doing it.

And she has a very good job, she's actually got a very high up position that has a lot of responsibility, which she manages fine. She just can't seem to do it in her own life.

I think you're so right saying it's like alcoholism, I actually said I felt she was like a drug addict this evening.

I'm not sure flatpack
She was talking about putting her house onto a buy to let mortgage and just buying another house.
With the hope of renting this one out (no one would ever rent it out but she won't be told).

I'm so sorry about this, but there is absolutely nothing you can do for her. It is highly doubtful that she will ever change, and if pushed she will only continue to alienate the people in her life as she has already done.

If I were you, I would refuse to visit her in her home anymore. You can't let her mental health issues impact your life to the point you are also suffering.

I agree with everyone else. Hoarding is so difficult to stop. She abused you as a child because of her hoarding, and continues to abuse you now, when you try to help her. Unless she recognised herself she has problem, and decides to address it herself, I would only meet her on neutral territory. This must impact in you so much, it's ok to step back.

Talking as someone who is NC with my mum, I am so sorry you are in this position. It's a horrible predicament to be in.

First of all I'm not an expert but I've watched dozens of shows about hoarders and as I'm sure you know , it is notoriously difficult to treat even when the client is keen to engage, and this isn't your mother I'm afraid. She's very unlikely to change I think. So I would be basing future decisions in this.

Second of all, don't even consider bailing her out financially, listen to your husband. She is responsible for her own actions (or inaction) and enabling her will just increase the pot of money she has available for hoarding. And DON'T feel guilt about this.

Thirdly, she is highly manipulative and doesn't have your best interests at heart. She hasn't seen you over lockdown either but she still ruined the evening with her ridiculous reaction to the garlic. Crying and then acting scared of your reaction is frustrating as hell. I would have been angry.

You have to look into some some of support and I would advise you to continue being LC, I certainly wouldn't be staying the night at her house again and I would've doing what I could to emotionally disengage.

And people aren't always bad for walking away from a relationship with a parent. It should still be a reciprocal, honest relationship that is good for you. This isn't that.

My mum was one for using triangulation within family relationships. Sounds like yours is too.

Is she willing to go to the GP?
Does she appear to be unhappy?

You have described my own mother. I have at various points in my life had to break communication, sometimes for years at a time to preserve my mental health. She is quite the narcissist really and plays the victim card whenever her behaviour is questioned.

I now refuse to enter her home due to the appalling hoarding and pet situation. It really brings me down and she will not engage in any conversation about it - if she does it is everyone else’s fault. We meet occasionally on neutral ground.

I've had a lot of therapy but I just feel like I'm a horrible nasty bully and I feel worthless that my mother would choose pieces of tat over me.

You need some more therapy to address this false inner critic that your DM entrenched in you as a child and then you need to learn to “detach with love”.

Her hoarding and squalor are just one symptom of what seems a significant untreated personality disorder. You are not professionally skilled to manage her and will continue to be the victim of her behaviour. In fact you are inadvertently an enabler - her best hope is that she hits rock bottom and is reported so that professionals can intervene.

You need to take yourself out of punching distance - by taking steps to emotionally and physically protect yourself. You need to turn your back and withdraw (ideally NC, but at least v LC) from the RS. Your mindset needs to switch from the desperate responsibility and compulsion to rescue and fix her and instead to focus on your own inner life and working on the huge deficits / wounds that her neglect and abuse has left. This is important so that you can now grow to have an emotionally healthy and fulfilling life with your DH, friends and any children. She does not get to drain and consume you and rob your finite headspace, emotional and physical energy in this futile endeavour.

I would be asking myself why am I the last man standing with someone as malicious, manipulative and emotionally abusive as this character.

It really doesn’t matter that she is your mother - she has neglected and abused you throughout your life. Much of this is a choice as she is able to prioritise the needs of her work and colleagues.

Blood does trump abuse and neglect.

Your DH is spot on - listen to him as he has likely been holding back. Prioritise considering his more objective view of your DM and his wishes.

I understand the visceral pull and panic to “help” a parent and the constant hope that things will change. But any chance of change comes with what how YOU change the dynamic and look after yourself.

Try to get some psychotherapy support to help you through.

Where is your Dad in all of this?

*does not

People who distance themselves from their parents aren't bad. You need to take that lie to therapy. We do it because we have lived in the shadows of our abusers for too long and we finally realise it's time to stop enabling abusive behaviour and start being able to function as independent adults whilst we let whoever the abuser is recognise the damage they have caused by their continued lack of awareness. Give yourself space from her. It doesn't matter how well you are functioning in all other areas of your life, this was your primary relationship, this one will take you down unless you learn how to place better boundaries. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is say 'no'.

Just wanted to add I think you've had many lovely, sensitive and helpful replies here OP.

These things are always complicated, as we (all) want love and acceptance and reassurance, if possible from the people around us, including our mothers. However, as a DD to a crackpot or neglectful or angry mother its absolutely fine to keep your distance, for your sanity and health. You count too, and you get to run the show too, its not a one-way street. (It could be that you have always come a poor second to your DM, and its really time to put yourself first.).

Sometimes you can't "help" someone and they have to deal with the real and natural consequences of their ridiculous angry or manipulative actions. "Its like that, thats the way it is", its not even in the "emotional" realm, just reality. Her being manipulative and complaining to her enablers about you is awful btw, don't let her pull any of that crap on you.

Btw, I suspect if you took a good (short or long) break from her, you would start to feel better about yourself and I suspect you will become even more understanding and stronger and objective. In fact, this is already in your original post.

Good luck.