Another MIL one...

[Fudgewhizz]

Been with DH 17 years. I have tried so hard with his parents right from the start - their hearts are in the right places but they are hard work (acknowledged by him, his siblings, and anyone else I know who have met them!). Extremely old-fashioned and with a very narrow world view. I've always known they think I'm weird but I've had it confirmed as MIL has apparently 'never met anyone in sixty years' who thinks like me This is related to the very small world she lives in - I'm not weird, I'm just not a Tory-voting Stepford wife who wants to always stay 'on English soil' and not ever go abroad.

We have had a few blazing arguments, the last of which followed a now-predictable pattern: she loudly criticised something we'd done (she thinks I tell DH what to do - I don't), I tried to explain our point of view, she pretended to listen but carried on saying how ridiculous it was, I asked if we could change the subject, she carried on ranting, I walked out and she followed me round the house continuing to rant. I eventually yelled at her to leave me alone, burst into tears and left the house. Since then I've tried to avoid them (FIL not as bad but asks a million questions about everything and won't ever stop and you feel backed into a corner all the time). They also think I'm weird as I don't cope well with big gatherings, which they have a lot of and can't understand why I don't want to spend a week going on holiday with twelve or so of them from DH's family, and I struggle with eye contact (I'm autistic) which MIL thinks is 'very strange' and hasn't come across before

For my own sanity I need to stay away. I have told DH I will never have a problem with him going or taking the kids to visit. When they come here I have stayed in another claiming headache or something or made sure I'm out. I make exceptions for things like DH's or the kids' birthdays but it's about all I can cope with after nearly two decades of criticism. I will never be good enough for them, I will always be thought of as the odd girl that DH married, and they will always treat me like I'm a naive teenager (I suspect this is because we were teenagers when we got together because they treat SIL differently. Also DH is like the 'black sheep' of the family because he was challenging as a child, and the sun shines out of his siblings' behinds, so it's not a great combination!).

I suppose I'm asking how we should go forward. I just can't put myself in a situation where I'm subject to frequent criticism and / or my opinions being humoured, and my parenting style questioned. It's just had a cumulative effect over the years which has resulted in a situation where I probably react more to little things because it's built up over a long period of time. I'm not sure how to deal with things - DH doesn't want to tell his parents the truth but I think it would just be clearer if he just told them (and might actually make MIL see just how much she has upset me). I've tried everything, I've even written to explain how I feel, but I feel like I'm done now and I don't want to subject myself to any more of it.

Hi Fudge

re your comment:-
"I will never be good enough for them, I will always be thought of as the odd girl that DH married, and they will always treat me like I'm a naive teenager (I suspect this is because we were teenagers when we got together because they treat SIL differently. Also DH is like the 'black sheep' of the family because he was challenging as a child, and the sun shines out of his siblings' behinds, so it's not a great combination!)".

Its not you or your H, its his parents. They would have acted the same regardless of whom he went onto marry.

Your DH being challenging as a child is their warped perception of him which is utterly wrong, I personally doubt that he was at all challenging actually and behaved quite normally throughout his childhood.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and the one assigned to him is one of scapegoat. You've described him as the black sheep of the family complete with a golden child/favoured sibling to boot. As a result of him being the scapegoat you people as his family unit are all scapegoated as well.

It is not your fault nor his that his parents are this dysfunctional and you did not make them that way. One thing you must do is to change your view that their hearts are really in the right place. That is not correct at all and these people really have no heart. They were not good parents to him when he was growing up and they are both crap examples of inlaws and grandparents to you and your children respectively. You would not have tolerated any of this behaviour from a friend, his parents are no different.

Unfortunately for you as well your DH seems very much mired in FOG re his parents; its an acronym for fear, obligation and guilt. This is also why he cannot and will not stand up for himself or even you people as his family here; as his family's scapegoat he's been thoroughly conditioned only to comply with their demands.

You have stated a clear boundary which should be respected by all. Don't see them, do not acknowledge them but also do not subject your children to them further. They have likely seen all too clearly how you as their mother are treated and it does them no favours for them to see you as their mother being so disrespected by their grandparents. Children too need healthy role models; their dad's parents do not fit the bill. If your own parents are nice and importantly emotionally healthy then concentrate your efforts further on them. You all as a family need to take further steps back from his parents.

I note you have written to his mother and if so do not send it. Shred it instead. If you send it to her she will use your words against you.
Do also read "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward. You may also want to look at the Out of the FOG website.

Do also look at the current "May 2020 well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages

A lot of what you've said makes sense. DH knows she is unreasonable and a pain, and will back me up fully every time - unfortunately he's has so many years of it that he doesn't notice when it's happening as he just tunes his mum out. She doesn't see why she should keep her opinions to herself; I say that she does with everyone else so I deserve the same respect. She can say what she likes about me to FIL and DH's siblings but she needs to refrain from sticking her oar into every aspect of our life that doesn't match exactly what she thinks we should do.

DH wants to know what he can tell his mum to do so I will agree to go over there. I think it's gone too far now and I will never be comfortable, and I don't want to see her more than is ever strictly necessary.

I've never understood people who keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. You know what the pattern is so why are you surprised when it keeps happening?

You aren't going to change his parents so perhaps it's time to look at alternative strategies.

His mother following you around the house to continue an argument sounds like horrendous bullying to me. They sound awful OP - keep away from them.

"DH wants to know what he can tell his mum to do so I will agree to go over there".

That makes it easier for him but not for you; this seems to be a man very much mired in FOG due to his upbringing. I would tell him that nothing would induce you to see her now. You do not owe this woman anything let alone a relationship here and should be under no obligation to see his parents anyway.

Your H's own inertia when it comes to his parents, his mother in particular, hurts him as well as you. He is still seeking their approval here, approval they will never give him.

Just have nothing more to do with them. Tell your DH you've had it. They will try and warp him against you but maybe that's the vindication that he needs.

Easier said than done but this is no way to live.

OP your post is incredibly sad, you’ve been putting up with this treatment for years and have been ground down by it all. But I’d say that your DH is part of the problem, by not defending you both as a team and ‘tuning’ MIL out. He’s basically saying her behaviour is okay and just enabling her further. It’s not your job to provide long written explanations and excuses to his family. Her treatment Of my you (and him) is totally unacceptable and in your situation I would go NC for my own health and sanity. You can’t obviously stop your DH seeing his family, but I would personally be questioning why he wants to engage with them so much if they treat his DW so disrespectfully. It sounds to me like his head is firmly in the sand.

How old are MIL/FIL? How close to you live to them?

You have put up with too much bullying for far too long. You are trying to change the unchangable, make rational the irrational and make functional the dysfunctional.

Your MIL is a nasty, aggressive, narc, who is energised by bullying you.

Take away her power. Do not communicate or JADE (feel the need to justify, argue, defend or explain) your feelings / thoughts actions to her or anyone in her family. It is just fuel / ammunition / narcissistic supply.

You are 100% right to take yourself out of punching distance.

Never give her the opportunity to be in your company again.

She doesn’t deserve your presence.

You need to emotionally protect yourself and heal the wound on your self esteem that this thug has inflicted since you were a teenager.

Think about the people in your life who make you feel good, relaxed, happy, content - and fill you and your children’s lives with these emotionally nourishing and positive people who will bring you joy.

Keep your DCs far away from these toxic polluting people as they will negatively impact them.

Your DH can do what he wants - but be v clear that he has already chosen to emotionally protect himself and throw you under the bus of his dreadful mother. He is not prepared to endure discomfort and her wrath to protect you. He is probably not aware that he is doing this as he is a victim of her as well.

Just know that she will never change - and she has selected you as her target / punch bag.

You need to walk and never look back. Disregard anything she has ever said to you in the past as goading, controlling, malicious and vicious untruths.

If your DH continues to see her - tell him you want to hear nothing about her or the family (as any info will trigger and upset you - and will likely have been planted by his manipulative DM) and ask him not to share any info about your lives, choices, activities etc with his family - just dull, vanilla, grey rock responses - because these types find any hook to get back under your skin.

Your life will be so much better when you take yourself out of the path of this constant beating.

I think you're doing all the right things by limiting contact for your own well being. To move forward I would suggest carrying on as you are- only going to a handful of events. If MiL plays up towards you at any then jus walk out- you don't have to take it.

Confronting them won't help I don't think, it'd just cause a stressful scene.

When your DP asks what will make you go over there more often, I would just say to him you can't for your health. He should respect that boundary.

I think I do need to stay away for my own sanity.... DH has no problem telling MIL when she's being ridiculous and is under no illusions about how she shouldn't be saying what she does. To be fair to him he does defend me at every opportunity, it's just that stuff washes over him (this is how he is in general, not just relayed to MIL - he is very laid back and not much upsets him) so he doesn't always recognise it. She doesn't say things in a nasty way - it's more things like 'should you be spending money on going abroad? I'd have thought you'd want to stay in the UK' or 'are you not teaching DD to read before she goes to school? All ours could read first' (had the last laugh there as DD is now a very advanced reader), and 'I don't understand why you want another dog, and training classes are just people trying to get money out of you' (after we'd got the dog and taken her to classes). She doesn't see why this would be upsetting and thinks I overreact.

DD adores her and DH's family have a tradition of lots of meeting up which he really doesn't want to do (the rest of his family are generally lovely and I don't have a problem seeing any of them). I'm not sure how we could see them without me seeing her though.

FIL clearly missed the tact gene and asks lots of intrusive questions that make me feel uncomfortable - just because he is genuinely curious but often in an entirely inappropriate way (eg questioning my friend at length, the first time he met her, about the ins and outs of breastfeeding, while she was feeding).

I think I do need to stay away for my own sanity.... DH has no problem telling MIL when she's being ridiculous and is under no illusions about how she shouldn't be saying what she does. To be fair to him he does defend me at every opportunity, it's just that stuff washes over him (this is how he is in general, not just relayed to MIL - he is very laid back and not much upsets him) so he doesn't always recognise it. She doesn't say things in a nasty way - it's more things like 'should you be spending money on going abroad? I'd have thought you'd want to stay in the UK' or 'are you not teaching DD to read before she goes to school? All ours could read first' (had the last laugh there as DD is now a very advanced reader), and 'I don't understand why you want another dog, and training classes are just people trying to get money out of you' (after we'd got the dog and taken her to classes). She doesn't see why this would be upsetting and thinks I overreact.

DD adores her and DH's family have a tradition of lots of meeting up which he really doesn't want to do (the rest of his family are generally lovely and I don't have a problem seeing any of them). I'm not sure how we could see them without me seeing her though.

FIL clearly missed the tact gene and asks lots of intrusive questions that make me feel uncomfortable - just because he is genuinely curious but often in an entirely inappropriate way (eg questioning my friend at length, the first time he met her, about the ins and outs of breastfeeding, while she was feeding).

Sorry for duplication - MN app playing up!

Update... DH has got MIL to promise she will try to keep opinions to herself. That was last week. I told him I'm still not comfortable going over there and am really stressing about the whole thing and he said there wasn't any need to think about it until after our holiday (which is in three weeks' time).

Since then he's seen them a couple of times. MIL keeps saying she wants to 'sort it out' but at the same time cant understand what the problem is. Apparently nobody else has an issue with her (they do, I'm just the only one who is honest about it). Their version of making an effort is to send DH an email asking if we can all go over for dinner. He has asked me to consider it. AIBU to point out that he said I didn't even have to think about it for weeks yet? I feel like I'm under pressure. I'm getting so stressed about seeing them again because it'll be all awkward and treading on eggshells and I'll feel really self conscious and on edge.

So does he think that in a few weeks' time you'll have calmed down and will be OK with going? Does he think this is just a whim?

It is hard for the black sheep to know what to do, as they have grown up desperately trying to get approval. But it sounds like you want approval, too? You don't like her thinking you are weird? Or would you be able to relax into the role of the horrible, weird one that doesn't want anything to do with them - seeing as that role is entirely in their heads?

I'd recommend a little counselling for you and dh...

They sound horrendous and your DH has fallen into the trap of enabling them by asking you to consider dinner.

I'd tell him that if he asks you any further questions regarding meeting up, that the answer will definitely be a permanent no! He is not to make any such suggestion to you again.

You need time without limit OR pressure to decide if you ever want to have contact with these people again. I wouldn't blame you if you didn't.

Don't go OP. Look at the stress it's causing you. Imagine the stress on the night in her house. Just be calm and clear and refuse to discuss it further.

I had a mother in law like that. I eventually stopped going there (luckily they never wanted to come to us anyway) Ex H was usually OK about me not going, but the day he said 'I don't know what to tell them so you need to come' I just shrugged and said not my problem. He stopped seeing them too not long after that. For so long I'd tried to keep the relationship with the in laws smooth, but it took a real toll on me in the end. Was interesting that the relationship between ex and his parents was mainly facilitated by me anyway, because I was trying to be dutiful.
After we split he barely saw them and my now adult children have no relationship with them at all.
I refuse to take responsibility for that though.
I feel your pain OP. I want to give you a big hug and to tell you that you are well within your rights to back away.

What your H needs to understand is that there is no way on Earth his mother will take any instruction from him on how to behave...it just doesn't work that way with this type of person.

My FIL is a lot like your MIL. He's a complete control freak who thinks everyone should think, do and live exactly as he does. He's never liked me, as I am a divorced, foreign, Catholic, older (by two years) than H, and came from a wealthy background. Myself and H met 10 years ago, when I was 41 and H was 39. I think FIL thought I would be H's last chance to have children - I have never wanted children and H knew that from the start. FIL therefore blames me for the lack of grandchildren.

The inlaws once looked after our two cats when we were away...despite always knowing they were indoor cats, they let both of them out, lost one of them and didn't find it for two days. Both cats were unvaccinated at the time and could have been run over, caught disease etc. Understandably we were incredibly upset that our instructions had been completely ignored and our beloved pets put at serious risk. FIL couldn't understand at all and was actually said that we were cruel to have them as indoor pets and refused to see that they had done anything wrong. That was 5 years ago and I've not seen either of the inlaws since. Even H has now admitted he's glad we didn't have children as FIL would have been even worse.

Tell your H that you've already said you will not stop him from seeing them but no, you will not be seeing them and he has to stop asking.

I'm sure this has occurred to you, OP, but be sure your husband knows that there's no way you'll be actively/personally involved with their elder care when the time comes.

I can't imagine that becoming more frail and dependent is going to make either MIL or FIL sweeter natured. I'm sure there are more favoured family members who can take on this task, or care can be bought in when that becomes necessary.

Hold firm - I think you've done all you can in 17 years. Time to protect yourself, your children and perhaps your husband too.

A PP mentioned counselling. If you've not considered that you and DH may find that illuminating. Good luck OP. 🌹

Do not under any circumstances go to dinner with his parents; it will not go well for you and your DH will sit there and say nothing if they start on you.

As mentioned before his own inertia when it comes to his parents and FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) which he has in spades again comes back to hurt him as well as you. Your DD is too young to realise she is being manipulated and used as narcissistic supply. She will be used by them too to get back at you people as her parents.

You have stated a clear boundary which should be respected by all. Don't see them, do not acknowledge them but also do not subject your children to them further. They have likely seen all too clearly how you as their mother are treated and it does them no favours for them to see you as their mother being so disrespected by their grandparents. Children too need healthy role models; their dad's parents do not fit the bill. If your own parents are nice and importantly emotionally healthy then concentrate your efforts further on them. You all as a family need to take further steps back from his parents.

Thanks for all your kind words. I'm worried I've made them out to be worse than they are. They're not horrible people, in that they aren't deliberately nasty. I doubt DD would notice because the disapproval is quite subtle. Think very, very small world (ie no idea of the world beyond her little bubble), anything outside of 1950s thinking is classed as newfangled ideas (usually 'nonsense'), 'why on Earth would you / anyone want to do that' kind of thing. It's got so that I've had so much stuff over the years that I now can't tell what's reasonable. To anyone else they'd probably be 'slightly annoying but heart is in the right place'. To me it's a feeling that we'll never be good enough and always be regarded with a sort of wondering suspicion. I'm spoken to like I'm some sort of strange being with odd ideas - if you imagine the stereotypical way a character in a film would address someone in a psychiatric hospital, that mixture of pity / bewilderment / being very careful not to upset the person, that's how MIL talks to me. When I just want to be spoken to like an equal. But as she's not outwardly nasty it's really hard to know when / if I'm being unreasonable.

Your H wants you to go to theirs so you’re the one his parents are focussing on and he gets to ‘not hear’ what’s being said as he’s being laid back.

If he’s so laid back why does he need you to be his parents verbal punchbag?

Tell your H, their his parents you don’t want to see them anymore. He can carry on as he wishes you won’t. Surely for a laid back person that should be fine.

OP you sound like you are now minimising their behaviours and your experiences.

People who are hypercritical and hound you and chase you around their home until you are in tears are deliberately nasty. And they are deliberately nasty and bullying to you specifically.

Of course they know what they are doing - and who they are doing it to - because they don’t do this to other friends, family and colleagues.

This is who they are. They believe they are entitled to behave this way. And they will continue to do so - just more covert with thinly veiled contempt and resentment. You will be on pins.

Don’t expose yourself to it. What do you get out of this only abuse and stress?

Don’t jump and feel pressured to meet their timescale - that’s just another overbearing and overwhelming tactic.

Decide to give yourself the luxury of time, space and distance from them.

This doesn’t have to hold malice and conflict - just decide that you are not compatible and withdraw from the family dynamic.

Let your DH have them all to himself.

They're not horrible people, in that they aren't deliberately nasty.

Hounding you from room to room until you're in tears, sounds deliberately nasty to me.

Stick to your guns OP and don't allow these people to harm you again.