Housework

[Foreverinpajamas]

As we've been spending more and more time in the house, I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my partner and housework. He means well but he does half a job. He'll wipe the sink and declare the bathroom clean, not bothering with the bath, shower, toilet, floor, etc. Little things like just picking up the empty toilet rolls and putting them in the recycling, even. I either finish the job or we have a semi clean bathroom. He'll do the washing up but leave rings in the mugs, bits of dried up sauce on plates.

I don't think he's doing it on purpose. I think he either doesn't see it or thinks it'll do. I dont think he's purposefully leaving things dirty, he just doesn't see it as dirty?

How can I approach this with him? I've just been going in and finishing, picking up after him, or taking the dirty things from the draining board and doing them again.

He's quite sensitive to criticism. He's not knowingly not doing the job, he thinks he is doing the job. How can I bring it up in a way that isn't patronising?

If I don't bring it up it'll go on forever and it's starting to drive me mad. I don't want to die on this hill but i cringe when i get a mug/plate from the cupboard and it isn't clean!

He's lived with friends and a previous partner before. We're early 30s. Lived together for 2 yrs. Engaged. We also have a lodger who can manage washing dishes but also never does mugs/glasses/pans properly. Had thought the mucky washing up was just down to her but have realised it's him as well.

Am i making a huge thing out of nothing? I want to be able to use crockery from the cupboard without washing it again, and walk into a room he's cleaned without cleaning it again! I honestly don't have high standards, it's the basic stuff.

Really trivial problem but it's driving me mad. What would you do? How do I bring it up without sounding awful?

[quote Foreverinpajamas]@Arrivederla Because if I sound critical he'll get defensive and we'll get nowhere. We'll argue, have a bit of a bad atmosphere, both say sorry so we can be friends again and we'll be back to square one.[/quote]
Unfortunately the only answer is to stand your ground. He is training you not to argue or disagree by getting defensive and difficult, and you are going along with it by backing down. This is no way to be.

Have a row. Let him see that he is in the wrong and that you don't accept his behaviour. If you don't you have got a lifetime ahead of you of running around cleaning up after him as if you were his mother. Do you really want that?

I think people do genuinely have different levels of cleanliness as their norm. However, a good loving partner will want to recognize that this actually important to you and want to please you by cleaning to your standards. It's not that he is failing or lazy, it's that he should want to please you.
I think you need a calm discussion along those lines.

He knows he's doing a half arsed job but he doesn't care. It's not like he can't see the dirty plates or thinks the only thing needing cleaning in a bathroom is the sink. His reaction to any criticism is how he tries to control you and it seems to be working!

To be honest I feel sorry for your tenant.

He/she pays rent to live in a flat share, then you move your boyfriend in (during lockdown) and that boyfriend (in the middle of a pandemic) thinks that cleaning the bathroom is just wiping the sink 🤮

He thinks cleaning crockery that you eat food from can have food still left on it from the last meal 🤮

What is his personal hygiene like and how much does he pay to live with you?

I'd get rid of him and keep the tenant, tell him you'll think about living together again when he learns how to clean properly.

Though it sounds like you've had this conversation before, he'll do it right for a while before reverting to his slovenly ways. What's the point unless you want to be his housemaid forever?

[quote Foreverinpajamas]@BuddhaAtSea He sees work as important and interesting and housework as nonessential and boring.

If I clean a room he'll notice and appreciate it so I just need to get him into the habit of doing it too. Its a conversation that needs to happen.[/quote]
So beneath him but ok for you to do?!!!
Fuck that, OP, wake up!

You each have a sledge. On it is piled your working day and domestic chores. You drag that sledge along through life. Occasionally you stop pulling the sledge and rest.

Now imagine that your partner takes some of the weight off his sledge and piles it onto yours. The weight he is pulling is now lighter. He strides on ahead whilst you pull not only your weight but some of his as well. You fall behind, You are tired. You perhaps decide to work part time to fit in all the domestic work you are doing. Partner tells you "you only work part time" so you should do more in the home.

I really like this analogy, and it can go further. Because you're tired, your partner tells you not to worry trying to go as far as him - just go part-way. And you might as well take the rest of his weight since he's going the whole way.

But it's ok - he'll bring back the precious gems (or whatever). And he does, and that feels fair for a while. But then he starts to question why he's handing over half the gems when he's the only one going the whole distance to collect them. And he suggests that if you wanted gems, you could go the whole distance too... you're just choosing not to.

Of course, he never mentions the weight you're pulling, or suggests he takes his half back again...

@LannieDuck absolutely. That takes the analogy to its logical conclusion.
And why, at divorce, so many, many women are shafted.
It's almost like society is set up for men to succeed at the expense of women. One might call it something like a "patriarchy"

All those people saying that he's doing in on purpose, that he knows perfectly well what he's doing, that he can't be bothered, etc...

My mum used (rightly) to make my brother and I do chores like washing up. I got used to her marching me into the kitchen, pointing at the dishes and saying 'look! Look at that!' because something was wrong (either stuff left on plates (which I could never see but she had forensic levels of eyesight) or I was stacking the plates wrong to drain, or I'd put big stuff on top of little stuff - I'm still not entire sure to this day). I never knew what it was. And she'd go off into huge rages about how I couldn't even wash up, etc etc, leaving me completely baffled.

I'd try to do better next time, but since I had real idea of what I was doing wrong (other than yelled 'you've got no common sense!') I was just repeating my mistakes. And, because of her attitude, I had no real interest in putting it right.

So there are ways of pointing out what needs doing (could you maybe do the job together, then you can point out stuff left on dishes as they come through the wash? If you are drying up, just say 'look there's still a rim of coffee on this mug, just give it another dunk,' if you want to make him feel better blame the new washing up liquid which doesn't clean as well).

Don't just assume that he knows what he's doing wrong. He COULD, of course, just be a lazy bloke doing a half-arsed job, but he may be like me, faced with my mother...

I have posted here before regarding housework. The person was never going to change, so I changed. I clean the bathroom every morning as well as the kitchen/living room. (shared areas)

The individual, however will still use the kitchen and leave breadcrumbs on the work tops, rinse a cup and leave tea stains - I feel that this is done on purpose to get a reaction. I have never felt for it - I don't go after the person and clean up. I clean once a day and that's enough. She is getting better - it used to be a sink full of dishes and mess on the work tops from cooking, dirty pots on the cooker.

We have a dishwasher and I think it's quicker and easier to put all the dirty dishes in there. It's called housework for a reason and it should not be left to one person to do it.

Just need to get through to him and show him it's important to me without starting an arguement.

Countless women have said this. "If only I could make him see......." "If only I could make him understand......."

They all see, They all understand - they just don't care.

Chuck it back at him, and smile while you do it.
Leave the plate on the side, go to use it, point at the dirty bit and say oh this one is dirty put it back in the sink.
Do not say , you didn't wash it.
Blame the plate not him.
Hey Jack I know you did the worktops as they look good, but can you do the floor as your kitchen today, I will go do the bathroom.
Never blame, as it makes you the mum.

The weight analogy is perfect.

Do not have kids with this man child!

@TwentyViginti

Just need to get through to him and show him it's important to me without starting an arguement.

Countless women have said this. "If only I could make him see......." "If only I could make him understand......."

They all see, They all understand - they just don't care.

This. Exactly this.

@foreverinpajamas
Get a dishwasher, and ensure his task is to load & unload it.

Should solve a lot of your issues.

Christ he sounds like a child. I wouldnt want to parent an adult. I would find that a major turn off. I certainly wouldnt marry him.

@LannieDuck

You each have a sledge. On it is piled your working day and domestic chores. You drag that sledge along through life. Occasionally you stop pulling the sledge and rest.

Now imagine that your partner takes some of the weight off his sledge and piles it onto yours. The weight he is pulling is now lighter. He strides on ahead whilst you pull not only your weight but some of his as well. You fall behind, You are tired. You perhaps decide to work part time to fit in all the domestic work you are doing. Partner tells you "you only work part time" so you should do more in the home.

I really like this analogy, and it can go further. Because you're tired, your partner tells you not to worry trying to go as far as him - just go part-way. And you might as well take the rest of his weight since he's going the whole way.

But it's ok - he'll bring back the precious gems (or whatever). And he does, and that feels fair for a while. But then he starts to question why he's handing over half the gems when he's the only one going the whole distance to collect them. And he suggests that if you wanted gems, you could go the whole distance too... you're just choosing not to.

Of course, he never mentions the weight you're pulling, or suggests he takes his half back again...

This needs its own post and pinning on the relationships board.

Are there any jobs he can do to a good standard? If he’s bad at washing dishes and scrubbing bathrooms, why not have him take over the dusting, hoovering and laundry?

It’s tricky to have that conversation, I agree. But instead of trying to correct his weaknesses, capitalise on his strengths.

If he has none, and does a bad job at everything, then I would agree it’s on purpose. No one is bad at all housework by accident. In which case you need to face the fact that a confrontation is necessary. He can be a sensitive pussy all he wants, but he’s an adult and if he can’t take a bit of valid criticism regarding his dumping all the boring housework on you, he can either do less of it by being a team with you or live on his own and have to do all of it.

My H is very similar and 5 years on, I promise you it doesn’t change. No amount of conversations, arguing etc. The only difference now is he admitted he doesn’t want to clean, he now pays for a cleaner for the whole house and that is how our life moved forward.