Feel like i'm in a Black Hole

[Sterling314159]

So I anticipate getting shredded but here goes...

Mid 30s, for those looking in on it my relationship with my DW is perfect. House, jobs etc. But inside .. its been sexless and unromantic for a long time now. Never had kids. A few years ago I started realizing there was an issue but buried my head in the sand. But as you can imagine.. the inevitable happened and I struck up a friendship with someone through work. Never got physical but did push the boundary. Made me realise what was wrong with my current relationship.. In 2019 I told my DW that things needed to change. I dropped into depression and I'm trying to get myself out of a dark hole not helped by lockdown... DW just tells me to get on with it as we all are going through it. Over the past 6 months I tried to talk to her on numerous occasions ... but I've realized that she is probably happy continuing in a sexless marriage forever. She talks about guys at work most days, and I did once see that someone had left a flirty message on some work papers but it had no name and it was most likely a joke.

With the OW - We agreed relationship was unhealthy and went NC, but I still work with her. I'm not changing jobs. I just cant get her out of my head. I fully understand that its a fantasy - she is the opposite in many aspects. DW - career driven, no intention of a family, wears the trousers in the relationship.. not that interested in developing a very deep relationship. Work and friends first. OW probably more needy, all about family no real desire for a career and happy doing something she is passionate about.

I found a few MN threads really helpful - I understand that I need to focus purely on the current relationship and try and fix it. I'm setting up counselling - DW agreed to go but has taken no interest in it at all. But I feel like I've thrown in the towel already...I spent a week away and during the time I realised that neither of us spoke about how we were feeling etc ..it was just all practical messages.

Do I just try and get to counselling and hope that a mediator will be able to untangle this?

No I don't want to wait till something is lined up. For me this is a massive decision and one that I don't take lightly. I admit I am not good at making decisions. I would move out of the family home and end up in a bedsit most likely.

I think that you only have two options open to you. The first is committing wholeheartedly to your marriage. Going to counselling but literally everything you do is about keeping the marriage safe. Really make an effort. You could put a timeline on it, one year or two years maybe.

Or leave.

There's no third option where you get different marital needs met by multiple women. That way craziness lies.

There's nothing wrong with living in a bedsit - far better to end your marriage than pretend all will be well with a bit of magical marital counselling. It won't make things better. You've already told your wife you don't fancy her enough to want to have sex with her. Grow a pair now and move out. If the house is in joint names, sell up and split the profits if there are any. Or ask your wife to buy you out. Whatever you do, this marriage is dead in the water.

If you're terrible at making decisions then give your wife all of the information here, show her this post even, and allow her to choose for you.

@Sterling314159

You're right - leaving is a massive decision. But so is staying. And that really doesn't sound like it's working out for either of you.

I just want to say that I didn't purposefully set out to hurt her by telling her that I hadn't been enjoying the sex. She only enjoys it on top and I've tried to get her to try different positions but she doesn't want to.

@Sterling314159 - it doesn't seem right that there is no compromise in the bedroom at all. I do think anyone would get a bit bored with sex in one position only.

But the point is really this: your marriage sounds like it's over and has been over for some time already. You don't have children and it doesn't sound like a good enough relationship to bring children into it. I think from things you've said that you do want children, but it's not entirely clear. You say she doesn't. Perhaps she doesn't want them in a relationship which seems to be on its last legs.

Your ability to father children is likely to continue much longer than her ability to conceive so you can take your time about deciding it's over in a way she can't, if she is hoping to have children. So unless you want to have a last ditch attempt at having children within your marriage and trying to make it work, which doesn't sound likely to happen, it would be kinder of you to release her and yourself from this marriage. That is surely better than you both looking back in your mid-40s, having wasted another 10 years in a 'flatmates' type marriage which is meeting nobody's needs.

If you go for therapy together, then try Imago Therapy. Given the different dynamics with your wife and your ex-OW, there are things to uncover in terms of what you look for (consciously and unconsciously) in a woman, and what your wife will look for in a man.

Well , her favourite position is also mine but I know for a fact my husband would get frustrated if that's all we did. It's all about give and take and balance, so I understand your feelings about that.

Not looking for salacious details about anything but.... That's it? Just her on top? That's the breadth of your sex life? .... Sounds frustrating.

I truely believe it is impossible to end a relationship without their being some sort of bad feeling from the dumped spouse and her friends and family. You see so consumed by not being a bad guy!

This is your life. You aren’t happy, a passionless relationship is miserable.

Who are you waiting permission from to end it?

Love and passion is amazing!! I absolutely think it is the reason for life. Why would you go without this? You are 30’s with no kids involved

Well I will try and give the least amount of information as possible. But yea.. its limited to her on top and it doesn't do it for me - its not a position that I generally climax . It took me years to convince her to come round to trying from behind but that was short lived as she says its painful. So thats it really... I freely admit i buried my head in the sand... I can talk for myself, I think she would agree that its sucked the joy out of it so we dont do it anymore

I'll be honest with you, if the only sexual position open to me was one I didn't climax in.... I'd lose interest as well. And I'd be pretty frustrated. I think , about this, she is being single minded and selfish. Especially as this is the one position she does climax in. (I'm assuming)

If you were a woman talking about a man, and she was saying the only position he agrees to is one she doesn't enjoy. I'd be saying you're with a selfish man. I think most people would. So.... I don't think any differently because the roles are reversed.

Is there any chance, at all, of turning this around?

I’m sorry but I think you are cruel. You spun a tale that began with your wife being the one who withholding affection and in actual fact it’s you! Shame on you

How did I spin a tale. I never once said my wife was withholding sex.

LessC - I'm not sure. I guess that's something I need to explore and coming on here was part of that. Aside from a couple of posters I'm not sure how productive it's been.

Well for what it's worth I don't think you're cruel. I think you need to find some proper direction. I will say though, saving your marriage is not just up to you. If your wife doesn't put in equal effort then it's not going to end up anywhere.

If you weren't already in couples counselling I would have advised you to go to individual counselling. I think your indecision about what you should be doing at this point could be further confused by the couple's counselling.

However, I think your marriage struggles with real communication issues, and also a lack of true intimacy. These things could be really addressed with the counselling but only if you really want to save the marriage and only if it's a good counsellor.

I read your OP again and I think I skimmed the first time and missed the things you said about feeling depressed and your wife just telling you to get on with things.... What she is doing is invalidating your feelings and it's not conducive to a good relationship.

I would look up invalidation, what it is and how it affects you, it could be something concrete to talk about during the counselling session. The counsellor should certainly be able to help with some direction on that.

How long have you been together?

Together for over ten, married for 4. We got together and then she moved to a different country and we then got together again when she came back and we settled in our home town.

I'm not going to lie, the rest of the relationship can get heated at times. I get told off a lot. I will read up about invalidation thanks. A while back someone I knew who was only 48 died. I was talking about how scary that is..she said that if she died today, then I would have to contend with likely being single the rest of my life as we are too old to date. V depressing

What??
Too old to date!?
Never!
And yes.... my little sister died at the age of 47!
Life can be short.
Do you really want to live the next 5-10-20-30 years like this??
Just no....!
Take back some control of your own life.
Make decisions for your future that will make YOU happy.
You have no DC to consider here.
I would honestly get a solicitors appointment and find out what separation and divorce would look like.
You are entitled to 50% of the equity in the house you know!
And unless you earn very little, why a bedsit?
Why not rent a flat on your own?
She earns her own money - and if you are in the UK with no kids then there is no spousal maintenance.
Just make a plan to get out and separate.
This is fucking miserable - for both of you!

Your mid thirties? Your not even halfway too old to date FFS. Some people haven't even got married or settled in a long term relationship for the first time at your age. I'm a few years older than you and I'm plenty back on the market if my husband died ( which he won't) .

Your age isn't a barrier in the slightest.

It's an odd way for her to phrase it. I would've said if my husband died I would be single because I was too old too date.... But then I wouldn't have said it at all because it wouldn't happen. I love my husband but I would definitely date again.

You're an adult, you shouldn't he getting told off at all. If she had a problem with you then she should be talking it through.

Sorry, I think your boundaries also need work. I have did a load of counselling and this is the kind of thing it's brilliant for. Your boundaries define what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour to you. I think it sounds like you've been accepting unacceptable behaviour for a while.

Regardless if whether you stay in this relationship you need to start identifying what your emotional needs are, and look for ways for them to be met. They aren't right now.

Too old to date?! What the fuck?!

I'm 33 and with someone at the moment but if we split up I didn't realise I would have to get me to a nunnery.

You both sound incredibly immature. The fact you've even had a conversation like that about being too old to move on, in your mid thirties, is ridiculous!

Just end it. She will be fine. She will be absolutely fine. So will you. You're both financially independent. You don't have kids together.

Put a bullet in this 'marriage' because it is over. One of you has to be the one to end it and whichever it is, a big part of the other will be relieved.

Tough love I know but ffs grow up!

Maybe a question for @LessCumbersome ...

Thanks for the nudge on boundaries. For years I feel like I'm not respected, but I'm a non confrontational type and so havent defined how I expect to be treated. I asked for help on something yesterday and when I didnt understand I was told that I was "stupid". I immediately said that was unacceptable but it usually doesnt go down well.

Defining what your emotional needs are... is it possible to quantify that a bit more?

But as you can imagine.. the inevitable happened

It wasn't inevitable- you didn't have to get involved in any way with someone else.

As to sex- is she open to the 'missionary' position? I think a fair few women find 'doggy style' painful. They shouldn't be expected to endure pain. Put yourself out a bit for your partner maybe is one thing, but actual pain- no. How about some sort of sideways-on positions to make a bit of a change?

I don't think you feel for your wife the way you do for OW.

I think your motivations for counselling is just so you can leave the relationship being able to say to people that you did all you could. You are actually hoping that the counsellor will give you 'permission' to end the relationship, by saying it's dead in the water.

Your wife has already said you have ruined the relationship- at least the sexual side. In the rare event you actually want your marriage to work (rather than just being able to say to yourself that you did all you could, and leave without guilt) you have to make some change that makes your wife feel the romance is there.

You're definitely not too old to date BTW- IDK if she's a bit down herself and/or she wants to discourage you from leaving and that's why she said that, but no.

Was it her that called you 'stupid?' Whoever it was, that's not ok, it's verbal abuse.

Yea she called me stupid...she apologised an hour later but it was one of those .. I'm sorry for calling you stupid but you were getting frustrated so it's not my fault"

I agree on everything you've said. I'm not sure I want to get counselling. If I made the decision to leave then naturally I want it to be as amicable as possible. I wonder whether a third party would help facilitate that. I'm scared of saying something that will hurt her as per the sex comment.

I went to bed last night wondering whether someone actually loves someone if they call them stupid. Or I am just overreacting.