Is romance bulls**t?

[Crispsnatcher]

Just that really.

My very unfeeling, uncaring ex told me it was bullshit and men don't really do romance. Is he right? I don't know why this is in my head today, he has left me a ton of issues and I wonder if he will 'romance' his next partner.

So as not to drip feed, he was an abusive arsehole who was violent many times. I'm slowly working through my issues.

Think about his motive for saying this.

Did he make a point if telling you how good you had it with him and how you wouldn't be able to 'do better' ? Because this is along these lines. He us trying to make you feel like you wont find happiness.

Romance or not, good people exist, kind people exist, loving people exist. What does a robot man know of humanity? He is just an empty can that emulates a real boy.

Pay no heed to his nonsense.

On a side note though, be particularly careful of overly romantic sorts as having just left an abuser, you will be extra succeptale to attracting others. And commonly they love bomb in the beginning. Which we mistake for romance. Dont lookfor romance, look for goodness, kindness and honesty. Hopefully, romance will come alongside.

I'm sorry that your ex was so vile and good to hear you are working through issues.

I don't know whether men don't do romance, but I do think women are socialised into the idea/concept of romance. I think all the surface-level hearts and flowers stuff acts as a smokescreen to stop us really investigating whether someone is right for us at a core level. Lots of the 'red flag' and 'gut feeling' threads on here are much more useful to women in thinking about what we really want in a partner.

Your ex is an arsehole who sounds emotionally stunted.

However , I actually don't trust too much "traditional" romance. To me romance is making my favourite dinner, or remembering I need vitamins and picking them up. Making me cups of tea or planning things to do together as a surprise. Loads of hugs and kisses. Affection. My husband bought me a £5 bunch of wild flowers last week on a whim . First time in years but it's just the same as all the other things he does. I said I didn't eat enough veg , so he makes a big bowl of salad for me every two days and I have it alongside lunch and dinner. To me, I have a very romantic husband. To others maybe they don't see that. It's all subjective in my opinion.

It's hard because you cant always tell the difference between love bombing and romance.

My ex did this shit too- included all men as arseholes etc makes you think of all men are like this better to stay with the devil you know,

Maybe men aren't use to being romantic but it's not for them it's for you and if it's what you want then make sure you get it.

Sucking Dick and watching sports isn't something I wanna do all the time but it's about compromise-
( let me just make clear I do not condone doing sexual acts if you do not want to! I just mean it's not my favourite thing every time!)

Wow thank you for the replies. Bunnymumy, you are correct, his favourite line was always "good luck finding anyone who would put up with you".

Herbigchance and cumbersome - yes, my idea of romance isn't hearts and flowers at all. It's tending to the little things in a relationship, making sure the spark stays or at the very least mellows into a warm, comfortable flame if that makes sense. It could be a look, or a touch of hand, or just a hot brew in your favourite mug or running a bath for the other person. I'd say my idea of romance is probably more in line with being considerate.

My ex said hearts and flowers is bullshit when I asked. I said that isn't what I mean by romance, I said it's the little things as above. He didn't get it. Just kept his "it's all bullshit" rebuttal. He wasn't really interested in me.

You sound very sensible.

The thing is tbf, his sort would never think to do 'the little things' for another person. Not unless it was in order to obligate you to do something else or feel a certain way in return.

They don't have it in them to care about another persons needs. To be nice or romantic or giving just for the sake of it. They just want to take.

I’m glad that he’s your ex.

As for romance, I think it’s things that your partner does that make you feel good about them.

My dh always makes me proper coffee every morning he’s at home. He’ll massage my shoulders if I get tension. He’ll buy me random gifts and once bought me a surprise flight ticket to go and visit my sister by myself.
I think those are lovely romantic gestures without the flowers and declarations of undying love.

I hope you find someone who shows you that there are decent caring men out there.

To be honest, I can see myself being alone for a long time through choice. I've had men come out of the woodwork since me and the ex split last year. And even though one particular person is absolutely lovely and the complete opposite of my ex, I dont feel right or ready to be entering another relationship as yet. The healing process is taking time, I find myself wandering to the Relationships board a lot as I feel I'm always searching for answers.

IME there are men who love bomb (abusers/narcs) and good men who show this through acts of every day kindness.

You don't want the man who will show up with a massive bouquet of flowers, jewellery and wine but won't make you a cup of tea in the morning. Go for the man who makes you the cup of tea. Yes he might also buy you flowers, jewellery and wine or he might not, doesn't really matter. Or it certainly won't 10 years on. Go for the man who asks you how your day was, brings you you're favourite fast food when you want it (without asking!) and never boils a kettle without asking if you want a drink.

Consistency over grand gestures, look for The consistent ones

Thanks Gracie, I definitely try to surround myself with good people now after years of this arsehole.

Have you done the Freedom Programme course as part of your healing and processing? It might answer some of your questions.

Aside from anything else, "complete opposite of my ex" is not an accurate or safe way to assess whether other/new men in your life are abusive.

Just to add to whats already been (brilliantly) said here, a good man will understand what YOU value, and then provide it for you. My exH never bought me flowers. He said it was a con and a waste of money. My now-DP buys me flowers all the time. He knows that it just makes me happy and i like having flowers in the house. He is kind and thoughtful and considerate, and likes to make me happy. THAT is romance.

I haven't done the Freedom Program, does it explain why people abuse others? And more importantly why I attract them?

The confusing thing about my ex was that occasionally when he had ripped my head off about something, I would withdraw into myself. He would buy me flowers on these occasions. It happened a handful of times in the 7 years we were together. So he was capable of doing that. But then he says its bullshit that men do that. And the things that I valued, he never bothered to find out about.

I think we've all fell into the 'well he's not like my ex so he cant be another abuser surely' trap once in a while. They come in many different packages (But ultimately, no matter how sparkly the wrapper, there's still just a big shit in a box lol).

If you read up on narcissists it might give you an idea of why they do it. Basically, they arent like you or me. Think of the playground bully who never grew up. THATS who they are. They abuse in order to feel good about themselves. It's their fuel. Though I doubt us normal folk could ever truly understand that.

They don't have any true sense of self, they just take bits and pieces from others (can manifest in mannerisms, hobbies, opinions ect). Theres lots of reasons why they may target you. Underlying all of them however I think, is that they want to take your...light I guess.

That's a bit of a hippy way of putting it...but basically they are greedy. If they see happy, confident ppl - they want that for themselves. And think they can take it by crushing you.

If they see sad, vulnerable people then they will also gravitate towards them too, as they know these people will be easier to hurt and hurting people makes them feel good.

Basically they want to take from you. They are leaches.

You may always attract them. Through no fault if your own. Some of us just do. But you can learn to spot them early and get shot so that makes life easier.

Also wise to do some reading up on codependency incase it is relevant to you. It isnt always. Narcissists arent fussy who they come for. But we have to be fussy about who we let stay in our lives.

Thanks Bunny.

This made sense: "
They don't have any true sense of self, they just take bits and pieces from others (can manifest in mannerisms, hobbies, opinions ect). Theres lots of reasons why they may target you."

My ex is devoid of much personality and very little sense of humour. He always 'felt' like a cardboard cutout of how a person should be. I don't know if that makes sense. Just like there was nothing under the surface, whereas me, I like to think I'm hilaaaarious . Found it hard to make him laugh though and he certainly never cracked me up. He never did heart to hearts or warmth or humour or anything that makes a connection with someone special. Kind of makes sense that he would say romance is bullshit.... if you lack the fundamentals of feeling a real connection with someone, you would think romance is superficial bollox designed to elicit an outcome I suppose.

I don’t trust overly romantic men and am certainly somewhat unromantic myself, however I am very kind in terms of thinking if small things and I expect men to be kind too , some are but many are totally thoughtless. My first husband would have thought nothing of grabbing a few beers or a takeaway without asking me if I wanted anything. It’s that kind of thing I won’t tolerate

Makes perfect sense. I notice some of them have a tendency only to laugh a 'real' laugh if it's at someone else's expense. The more malignant ones at least.

I've noticed that I tend to feel 'something is missing' in these sorts now. Ive found they like to use your own words, parroted back at you word for word. Or repeated to someone else, right in front of you (without giving you credit for the original statement). And to me that really calls to my attention the fact that you are dealing with someone empty. It's one of the more common red flags I look out for now.

I mean I guess we are all made up of ppl who have influenced us over the years but...I was just watching 'Heroes' on streaming lately and theres a good guy named Peter who can take on the other heroes powers by simply being around them. And theres a bad guy named Sylar who can take on other heros powers, by cutting their heads open. And it just so makes me think of narcissists needing to destroy everything good just because they want what it has.

Anyway, im rambelling.
The thing is, he will never truly be happy.
You will. And that's something else for him never to be happy about xD

Bunny - you've hit the nail on the head! My ex used to copy things I say but they were very individual to me. Also he would laugh if someone was struggling with something or some other such thing.

I understand what you step saying perfectly. I just never thought about it before.

Another thing which stood out was that he would not instinctively know how to respond in certain situations. And he didnt understand why I responded to certain situations the way did, as if they were an alien concept. All relatively normal things, but it was like it was novel experiences for him whereas they were just basic human responses.

I'd recommend you try the Freedom Programme too. It's about understanding how abuse happens and how to build boundaries and avoid getting pulled into further abusive relationships.

I'm a bit wary of "romance" because it makes me think of gestures, like, I don't know, flowers and serenades or being "treated like a princess" - which might be nice, but you need substance behind it. Being "treated like a princess" worries me because it's about putting you on a pedestal and treating you like you're not a real person (and when you're imperfect you come crashing down), instead of seeing you as a person and individual and loving you as you are.

What do you mean by romance?

Men certainly can do loving and affectionate and consistent and kind, and make you feel valued and safe emotionally.

I mean, flowers are nice and all, but where it's to shut you up after an abusive episode, then he's right, it's bullshit.

It's funny that you say that op because I remember one in my past would look at me as if to say 'how am I supposed to react to that?' when something nearby was expecting a genuine 'humane' response. Eg: someone was crying nearby. Just remembered that right enough lol. Just a feeling of awkward silence like 'uh oh this person is...malfunctioning by showing real human emotion, wtf do I do?'.

Of course romance exists. But real romance isn't the cliche of red roses. It's quirky and personal. It can be intense but it can also be playful. During the early days of our relationship I once got home to find my DH had hung a bicycle on my bedroom wall and decorated it with fairy lights.

I agree with all those PP warning of the man who will "lovebomb" you. Men like that do romantic things, but it's like painting by numbers. They don't actually feel the emotions that trigger romance.

The most important quality you look for is kindness. Kindness endures. It lives alongside integrity and friendship -and these are the qualities that form the basis of enduring love.

Everything you say is relatable Bunny. My ex had no boundaries so didn't recognise or care if he violated mine. Definitely was robotic on his 'normal' days. Didn't care much for intimacy but demanded sex.

Ugh! My eyes are truly open, and at least I know it wasn't all down to me as he had me believe. I won't be getting into a relationship any time soon. I will look at the Freedom Programme. Thank you all for the replies, it really has helped.