Issues with parents and social distancing

[Motherissues2020]

I have a DS aged 3 and have a new baby born mid June. My parents live about 2 hrs drive away but were very keen to see us after the birth. I hadn't seen them since the start of March but had spoken to them regularly on the phone and facetime. I've found lockdown tough wfm whilst pregnant and with a 3 yr old and we've been worried about the security of my DHs job as well as his company have asked him to take a (hopefully temporary) pay cut.

My parents offered to drive to us for the day, this was about a week after the baby was born. We discussed social distancing and they offered to bring a gazebo so they could sit under cover in the garden in case it rained and brought their own lunch too so I wouldn't have to cater for them. Although I hadn't explicitly said to them they wouldn't be able to hold the baby yet, I thought they had understood.

When they arrived my mum wanted to hold the baby, and went into our house to put things in the fridge. I asked them not to go into the house and tried to make a joke of it. I said sorry I'd really like you to hold the baby but it's against the rules we'll have to wait until the rules change.

My Dad although not shielding, has had heart problems and has diabetes so we've all been worried about what would happen if he caught covid19. We'd not long been back from the hospital and so we were worried about passing things on to him as well.

We spent an awkward hour or so with them in the garden and then my Mum cried and said she wanted to go. I persuaded them to stay for a little longer but then they left. My mum said they might come back to see us when they could hold the baby.

Since they visited I haven't called as I usually would and have waited to see what they would do. My mum hasn't called but messaged saying they'd be happy to come back again and this time she'd bring a mask and gloves so she could hold the baby. I ignored that, becuase as far as im concerned thats not the point, the guidelines will change again and she'll be able to hold her soon enough.

I've seen my sister and nieces (socially distanced) and she's said how I need to speak to mum as she is still upset about what happened.

I'm feeling really hurt as it felt like my mum only came to hold the baby. I thought she would want to see me and DS3 and spend time with us all. Its been a hard couple of months and I thought she would understand that and want to support me. I told my mum this and she's now even more upset with me. She said I don't understand how emotional this is for her not to be able to hold the baby and given me a guilt trip about how worried she is about my Dads health.

There is a bit of backstory as we've had a difficult relationship since I was a teenager, I'm now mid thirties, but sometimes it feels like not much has changed in our relationship. For example when my son was born she managed to get into the hospital room uninvited minutes after he was born (with my parents in law and Dad in tow) and wanted to hold him before my DH did. I've also felt that she prefers my younger sister to me, as I'm the "difficult one" and have been since I was a toddler. Apparently I had massive temper tantrums and really embarassed her, whereas my sister never had tantrums.

What should I do. Should I apologise and invite them around and let them hold the baby? I still feel upset at the lack of understanding and support but I can see how of course she wants to hold the baby and I'd quite like to have someone else hold her tbh. But in some ways it's not really about that to me anymore. I don't know what to do.

Your mum sounds emotionally manipulative to me. Sounds similar to my own mum. everything is about her own needs being met and when she doesn’t get her own way it’s all poor me/ playing the victim.

All she wanted to do was hold the baby. She didn’t care what you wanted, she certainly did care if it was the best for the baby and she didn’t seem to think about what’s others wanted or needed out of the visit (emotional support for you or attention for your other child). she wanted to get what she wanted out of the visit regardless of anyone else, it’s all very selfish!!

Personally I think the only way to manage this is to keep very firm boundaries, as you have done, and to withdraw if you are not being respected. Don’t let her or other guilt trip you and keep holding your boundaries. I have gone through periods where my mum has called me 30/40+ times a day or called at 5 am because she wanted to know how my I’ll son was etc. The thing that stopped it was me massively limiting contact (ignoring repeated calls and messages) and being very firm and clear on boundaries.

I had a similar experience with the birth of my first son to what you described: I told my mum clearly I didn’t want her in the room when I gave birth and that we would call when we were ready for her to visit the hospital. She acted all poor me....why don’t you want me there.... She came anyway but luckily the ward staff were very good and I made her wait until I was ready.

I just want her to understand and to care that she's upset me and want to make amends but I don't think that is ever going to happen. I look at other people's relationships with their mum's and it makes me sad that we don't have that.

I think my options are to apologise and to have some kind of limited relationship with her. Leave things as they are and not reply and hope we can pretend it didn't happen in a few months time. Or to drastically cut/reduce contact with her. But none of those are what I want.

With DS being born. The irony is I had asked her to be there and she'd said no. My DH can be a bit squeamish and hates confrontation so I thought she would be a better advocate for me. People generally end up doing what she wants. But she didn't want to. Instead she and my dad went to the pub with my in-laws and then they all came to see us in the hospital in the delivery room. My in-laws were clearly embarrassed and horrified. I wasn't wearing much and hadn't yet had a shower when they all walked in the room. I really wasnt expecting it so hadn't warned the midwives or anything. The good thing about giving birth during all of this is that there were no visitors at the hospital this time!

“ I look at other people's relationships with their mum's and it makes me sad that we don't have that”.

I feel that exact same way. I always think wouldn’t it be nice if we did x y z like other people. It’s really hard when you want something from a parent that they’re just not able to give.

I do worry that apologising sends the message that you were wrong for setting your boundary and might possibly make her thing she can disrespect your boundaries again. You could call a truce instead, agree to disagree type comment and then focus on how you can move forward.

The story about your first birth really upsets me. It sounds like she really isn’t able to see your needs at all?! To actually say no to support you in the room but then to barge in with other people without thinking how you would feel about it.

How is she with your older child? I had to be very strict with my mum at one stage where she started almost emotionally manipulating my son.

Ah relationships with mums can be so hard.
Do you have some good times with her too?

It sounds like your mother has not changed since your own childhood; she had a low opinion of you then and her toxic mindset has not altered.

I would put far more mental distance between you and your mother now; you have physical distance already which I would use further to your advantage. Would further lower all interactions with your parents and sister.

Your sister is favoured and also used by your mother as a flying monkey. All this from your sister about your mother being upset is all a lot of old crap. Besides why can't your mother herself tell you this; its because she really is not upset. She remains pissed off at you for challenging her will and summons to see your child. I would also think she shows not much if any real interest now in your eldest?.

What you probably want i.e she to be nice and actually understand and or care about you is not going to ever happen. Let that hope go and free yourself now from that sunk cost fallacy. It is not your fault that she is like this and you did not make her that way. I would not let your dad off here either because he has also failed you too by failing to protect you from the excesses of her behaviours. He has gone along with her out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

And you certainly should not apologise to her!!. Apologise for what exactly, for speaking your mind to her and putting in place a boundary?. My guess is that your mother has never apologised for anything to do with you let alone take any responsibility for her actions (same goes for her enabler of a husband).

I would also suggest you read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward as a starting point. Do also take a look at the current May 2020 well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these pages , you will get understanding posters there too.

There have been good times. She's very generous, with gifts, food and money and she is great with DS when she wants to be. She used to be a nursery teacher and is really lovely with children and gives good advice when it comes to parenting. Although it is double edged, she expects me to follow all the advice, and I think she plays favourites amongst the grandchildren sometimes. But DS loves his cousins and doesnt seem to notice or care about that. She's paid for our whole family to go on holiday together, although we no longer go on these as the last one we went on didn't end well. She has booked holidays before asking us if we can make those dates/ want to go to that place etc before. Although she would say that she did have time to cancel if we couldnt make it. She has lots of friends and people would say she's an amazing mum and grandma.

I think maybe you're right and I'll try and agree to disagree. I just need to learn that it's not going to change and adjust my expectations and protect my feelings. Everytime something like this happens I just kick myself. I should know by now what she's like, why do I let it get to me?

I think to be fair to her when it comes to DS birth - We hadn't messaged her to tell her that DS was here yet. So they didn't know what they were walking into. They did knock and I said come in, but I thought it was the anaestetist coming back.

But then we hadn't asked them to come to the hospital either, so really they had no business being there at all.

I would say you need to assess her behavior more realistically and work on aligning your expectations with reality, rather than with what you wish was reality.

I completely get that you wish your mum was less selfish etc. I really do, it's so hard. My mum is similar in many ways. Sadly your mum just isn't that great at having a proper mum daughter type relationship - she sounds emotionally immature and probably doesnt have much insight in her own behaviour, nor the resilience to take feedback and improve herself.

She sounds self centered and childish. Which is fine. Many people are. The trick is, you've got to accept this about her and plan accordingly. She isnt going to change, she doesnt have the skill or insight to do it. You know that, I think. However, you're still in the unfortunate position where your heart continues to yearn for what will never be. That's actually the part that causes pain in these situations.

Give yourself some time to grieve the mum you deserved, and get acquainted with the one you actually have. Easier said than done but that is the key really.

Once you see her for who she really is, you'll see that you do need to say things like "you're welcome to visit mum, just be aware that we won't be touching you, that includes holding baby" "yes mum, its terribly hard, I know it's the absolute worst, hopefully things will change soon" "yes mum, its heartbreaking isnt it" ad nauseam, ad infinitum, always about her -- she is a child emotionally, she is focused on her own feelings. I mean this kindly but she doesnt care how you feel. Doesnt make it right, but she has made it clear over the years that that's the case. The ball is in your court as to whether and how you will adjust to accommodate that.

It's also ok to not see her anymore. It would be very understandable, since it does hurt to spend time with a person who put themselves first despite you being their child.

But if you're going to stay in touch, do yourself the kindness of radically accepting her as she is. You'll save yourself so much pain. Xx

MotherIssues2020

Abusive people can be "nice" sometimes but the nice/nasty cycle they show their target is a continuous one. My concern too is that she will go onto treat your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you've been treated by her.

I was not at all surprised to read all that about your mother; image is all important to people like this. They want to be seen as nice, tidy and respectable pillars of the community types when in reality they have treated and treat their now adult children like something they've stepped in. She has previously booked family holidays for you all even before asking you if you are all available then and or even want to go on holiday with her. She is all about her and what she wants from others.

Sod what other people believe re your mother and if they believe her all too willingly then they are not worth your time either. I would think that one or two of them have their own private based suspicions re her anyway. You know the truth re your mother and that will ultimately set you free. She also playing favourites with the grandchildren is a red flag and a behaviour that should not ever be tolerated as it harms relations between siblings.

Your DS is three and as such he is far too young to realise that his grandmother could well go onto manipulate him. He may well love his cousins but at this age kids are pretty much indiscriminate in who they love. This is also why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. He (as well as you for that matter) was also ignored by your mother on her last visit to you all, she seemed to have no real interest in him. You know the truth re your mother; protect your children from her. You need to protect your own self from her because she was not a good parent to you when you were growing up. You may well have had material things but that is not enough, you needed emotional nuturing and she did not and does not provide that. She favours your sibling and emotionally she is bereft. Empty vessels make the most noise.

I think I'm not ready to cut all contact. Plus I think it would create more drama when I really don't want or need that right now. I think I'm just going to try and fade into the background and see them only occasionally.

I see what you're saying about my children, but I don't think it's quite the same. My grandmother was similar and she had dysfunctional relationships with her children, several of whom were estranged when she died. She would use them to send messages to each other and none of them got on. It was very much a divide and rule strategy. As a grandchild I loved her and she looked after us a lot as children. I could see what she was doing with the grandchildren and her children but it didn't have the same emotional impact on me as things with my parents. I think if we see them rarely DS will be able to see her for what she is and just shrug it off as Grandma being silly.

The thing I worry about more for them is that i'll be the same with them as my parents were with me. I think I subconsciously follow a lot of the same patterns and it's hard to break the cycle. At the moment DS is acting up a lot (understandably as his whole world has changed with lockdown and now a baby sister) but I can feel myself emotionally withdrawing and see it making things worse. It's not his fault at all but I'm really craving some space from him when I think he actually needs more attention and not less. But then I love him so much and can't imagine that I'd do the same to him. I'm definitely not going to label him based on how he's acting right now.

I think it must be really hard to go no contact. If that’s not where you are that’s fine. Maybe you will find a balance that works if not you can explore low or no contact in the future. I found looking at strategies around assertiveness helpful in replying to my parents (because actually it’s them both not just my mum). Luckily I have found since having my own children I have been much more able to keep them at arms length than before when they would over step my boundaries constantly.

My parents actually have a lovely relationship with my parents too and the few issues I had was minor but I nipped them in the bud hard because I was aware I didn’t want patterns repeating. I will keep an awareness though....for me it’s remember that my children aren’t there to meet my parents needs and if they start acting that way I’ll take a big step back from them.

I understand your worry about repeating patterns. I feel that I’m doing that some times too. I think we just have to be very conscious of our parenting and adjust it when we think we’re falling short without being overly harsh and guilting ourself.

I’ve found some really nice practical things that help me with my kids. I do this bracelet trick I heard about where you wear 5 bracelets or bands on your arm, you move one band to the other arm if you feel you have done something critical or harsh and then you move one back when you have a gentle kind interaction with your child. This really helped me keep aware of if I was being too critical and helped me balance it out.

I think if our experience as children was of not having our own needs met we are bound to struggle with some aspects of parenting because a lot of parenting is meeting others needs above our own. I think partners are really important here. I really value when my husband sees I am struggling with the intensity of the children’s needs and tells me to take half hour out while he plays with them. On the other hand when my children were a baby and toddler (and I had pnd and lack of sleep) he really didn’t do enough and I hate to think back to some of my parenting at that time.

"My grandmother was similar and she had dysfunctional relationships with her children, several of whom were estranged when she died. She would use them to send messages to each other and none of them got on. It was very much a divide and rule strategy"

That is called triangulation and its a very effective technique. Emotionally healthy people do not triangulate or divide and rule.

You are a completely separate being to your mother and you will not parent your children the same ways that you were parented. Toxic dysfunction within families like you describe can and does filter down the generations; look at what your grandmother was like for instance. I can see why your mother is of a not too dissimilar nature. But that cycle can and will stop with you; you do not have to repeat what they did here and that is also because you have two qualities that both your mother and her mother absolutely lacked; empathy and insight. Be kind to yourself.