How do you know when you've reached the end of the road?

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

Been married for 8 years, 2 children.

Things haven't been good for the last 3 years, but have reached boiling point in the last 8 weeks and I'm now at the point where I'm stalking Rightmove and doing 'should I get a divorce' quizzes.

He's got anxiety and stress and depression. None of which he admits and he won't do anything about. He's a workaholic, regularly working from 5.30am until 6, 8 or 10pm at night. All he talks about is work. I do 99.9% of childwrangling, school stuff etc as well as holding down a job. Our eldest has some issues - I'm the one who has supported her through getting help and getting to a better place.

He hasn't dealt well with these issues at all (to be fair, it's been really awful, but is now getting better) and we've had a couple of rows in front of the children, which in my book is absolutely wrong. He's lost it, told us to 'get out of his house' (ha and no), told me that either our eldest's behaviour changes or he will leave, or she will (she's not a bloody Labrador, I can't rehome her!) and has basically checked out of family life completely. He keeps saying he wants a happy family life but isn't prepared to put any of the work in to make this a reality. It's like living with a housemate. We haven't had sex in months.

I still love him, but this isn't a relationship I want my children to have as a model. I've started to question whether I'm still in love with him. I've begged and begged him to get help, to call the doctors, to get therapy or antidepressants. He won't as he doesn't see there is a problem.

How long do you carry on for? Some days I can see us making it, others not, but this isn't a life, it's an existence.

Friends, family, even my MIL is worried that we are going to split up. He just can't see it.

Any advice? How would you deal with someone who just won't acknowledge there's a problem? Is this the end of the road?

told me that either our eldest's behaviour changes or he will leave, or she will

This is a dumping offense on its own OP, what a thing to say about his own child!

As to people who have mental health issues that severely effect their lives and those around them and refuse to get help- my patience with that would wear thin very quickly.

If it was me, I'd get my ducks in a row. But then I don't have issues with putting myself and my happiness ahead of living a miserable life and your life, OP, sounds seriously miserable.
And I know its not easy to make a fresh start but if you're living a life that is so obviously unhappy, with a person who can't even begin to meet you half way then what's the point?
I'd carry on with those Rightmove searches and online quizzes but I'd also start seriously putting practical steps in place by planning for a better future.

I could have written this and wish I'd left when we got to the 'your DD or me' speech. It took another 4 years of my life that I'll never get back.

I'm no expert, but it sounds like you already know you're at the end of the road. Does he know how you feel though? If you've said to him what you've said here, and he doesn't pull out all the stops to change, then yes I would say end it.

I have begged and begged him to get help. I’ve given him two ultimatums which he’s completely ignored.

I’ve said if he doesn’t get help then we will separate.

By his very lack of action he’s telling me that he can’t be bothered to change and fight for us and our family.

I think he thinks I won’t do it.

I’ve one last chance to get through to him this weekend then I think I’m going to have to make a decision one way or the other. Leopards don’t change their spots, right?

The really sad thing is that the two things I’ve asked him to do aren’t unreasonable, are they? If he actually loved me, and the kids, he’d want to do it for us, wouldn’t he?

As far as he's concerned there isn't a problem OP because he's not the one being affected by his self absorption.

The atmosphere in the house sounds awful and I feel sorry for your children having to put up with it. Your daughter was probably acting out because her home life is so miserable.

OP he's an addict. Workaholics are dependents, just like alcoholics and drug addicts. His primary relationship is with work and not his family.

He's perfectly happy doing what he's doing because there are no consequences to his actions. You are doing all the work, you are supporting your daughter single handedly, you are managing the house and the children. He doesn't have to contribute.

Why are you clinging onto this marriage? He's made it very clear that he isn't going to change and is treating you like tenants in his house, threatening to evict his own daughter.

I know it's a MN cliche but have a think about there being someone else. Long working hours, disengagement from family, lack of sex all point towards one thing. I'd send her a thank you not and a bunch of flowers if I were you and let them get on with it.

I don’t know why I’m clinging.

I suppose because I knew marriages might have bad patches but I thought we’d get through them together.

This is more than a patch and I’m tired of being the fixer.

I suppose because I knew marriages might have bad patches but I thought we’d get through them together.

He's not giving you any reason to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to his behaviour, because he's not doing anything about it.

Ultimatums are ultimate BTW. He hasn't stuck to it/them so he doesn't get another chance, at least not without being chucked out and then giving long term evidence of working on his issues.

How do you know? When you ask this question on a forum, would be my answer.

Sorry, OP, but in my experience, once things get to this stage, there is only one way forward.

It can be difficult to distinguish between a bad patch and the end of the road- basically one merges into the other, and if he is comfortable in his own sealed off environment, then it’s down to you to say enough is enough.
If it was your daughter going through this what would you advise her to?
Life is short, move on and be happy

If it was my daughter I’d tell her to end it, to be brave and that she would be absolutely amazed at how much easier it would be by herself without having to accommodate someone else’s foibles and schedule. That having someone in your life is meant to enrich it and make you happier. That money can’t buy love and sometimes relationships just run their course and to be kind but rip the plaster off. That she’d be much happier in the long term and that the kids would see more of their father with a divorce than without.

That surely she doesn’t want this existence for another 40 years. That I would support her however I could but enough is enough. When someone shows you who they really are then you have to make the decision and by his very lack of action he is showing he has zero respect for you and that’s not what you deserve nor want your children to see.

Christ.

Any advice? How would you deal with someone who just won't acknowledge there's a problem?

You have a stark choice: Live with them as they are, or separate. It's that simple.

you can't force someone to listen.

His work hours are utterly unreasonable, his parently is utterly wrong and he's not willing to try to learn better.

You're faced with a brick wall. All you can do is decide if you want to keep looking at it, or if you will turn your head to the sunlight.

If he's willing to change then that's a different matter. If he's not, there's nothing you can do.