Power and control - how to see it?

[ThePathToHealing]

I left a relationship a few years ago but never processed anything. I've read the power and control wheel a hundred times, I was attending the freedom program before lock down but I struggle so much with seeing what he did as being about power and control. It's complicated by the fact I have very few memories, at one point I couldn't even remember where we lived or how long we had been together (nearly 5 years ).

I feel in a way I'm still brainwashed. Part of me still thinks he has the right to express his anger in anyway he wants (he never hit me but punched, slammed and kicked things sometimes because I offended him but sometimes because he stubbed his toe etc). I feel like he would have expressed the anger violently even if I wasn't there so what does that have to do with controlling me? Is that abusive?

I don't know how to break that hold he still has over me and how I think and feel about what happened. How do you break the spell and see it for what it is? I feel like I've read everything there is on domestic abuse but I'm still stuck. I still have this feeling that he was just a grumpy twat and being grumpy or a twat isn't necessarily abusive. Is there a light bulb moment on seeing it for what it is, like there was a lightbulb moment that I had to leave? When did it really sink in, if ever?

I'm not even sure this makes sense. Has anyone been through similar and had a moment of clarity or does it continue to be blurry and confusing? I've moved on and am with a lovely partner now but I have PTSD so this stuff is still affecting me and causing a lot of distress.

Have you had any formal counselling or therapy? It sounds like you need a structured way for someone to take you through it all one step at a time.

A womens aid counsellor really helped. Talk it through that it wasn't your fault.

Have you tried any of these?

Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why Does He Do That? docdro.id/py03

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Information on sick systems on how he got your in a cultlike state:
www.issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html

The shark explanation:
www.google.com/amp/s/www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/amp/

Read up on the F.O.G
Fear, Obligation and Guilt
Out of the FOG is a good book

The opening chapter of this book is a great read:
Power
amazon.co.uk/POWER-Surviving-Narcissistic-Collection-Narcissism/dp/1945796324&ved=2ahUKEwikqYzdkJXqAhWJQUEAHSVBDF8QFjAMegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1ZCj-0LUkQfcT-QQGkUm_A]]

For more details on being brainwashed. This is an excellent read:
How He Gets into Her Head: The Mind of the Male Intimate Abuser www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1855942208/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_gxxAEbBTMRXTM?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

For help on setting boundaries:
Boundaries
amazon.co.uk/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454&ved=2ahUKEwiI-_G8kJXqAhXPTsAKHf2RA2QQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw04hvQ_8v2A95RpGSxSJxiV]]

For help on being separate from him:
Codependent No More
amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025&ved=2ahUKEwj05aWAkZXqAhXMbsAKHUGnDVoQFjAKegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw22s2NxLWZ4Z2t0VO6bfF1o]]

For help on healing:
The Body Keeps the Score
amazon.co.uk/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748&ved=2ahUKEwiA676MkZXqAhWKYMAKHT07CWAQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0SYc1OQsdpcMbb9xt493MM]]

I feel exactly like you. My view of my marriage never stays still. One minute he was definitely abusive, the next he was just an angry man and I just couldn’t cope with it. It’s doing my head in not having a definitive answer. I think it’s all the gaslighting and the dissonance. At the time yourself and myself played down the behaviour so that we could carry on with the pretence that we had a loving marriage. It’s very difficult to shake all those feelings as they form part of our memories. We are seeking closure in our brains from a very confusing situation. I have to just stop that kind of thinking as it keeps me in a spiral because I can’t get an answer. I loved my husband very much but I had to walk away, being with him broke my mind and my body so that will need to be a good enough answer. Whatever the intention on his behalf he was not good for me. I’m finding it extremely hard because I have 2 court cases impending for child contact and the financial settlement and I kind of want an answer on whether he was abusive or not so I can approach these cases with the right info. What do I tell the judge, all I can say is how I felt and what it did to me, I can’t tell them what “I think” his intentions were as I don’t know that, only he does. I am not looking forward to any of it.

He has the right to express his anger however he likes, when he is in his own space, alone, and not damaging anyone else's property.

He does not have the right to intimidate others or damage their stuff or their surroundings.

Men like him do not abuse because they are angry. They get angry in order to have an 'excuse' for their abuse.

The Lundy Bancroft book is excellent.

Yes they definitely get angry in order to abuse. I don’t know if you can remember specific arguments but I can remember the really explosive ones were when I wasn’t doing something he wanted or doing something which wasn’t in line with what he wanted. For example the trouble I got in for not making his lunches for work, I asked him who makes mine when I go to work??? I wasn’t allowed to say that!

Thank you everyone for replying. I've read Why does he do that? four times. For about two days it all make sense and then it crumbles again. I've also read the body keeps the score, I have some strange body symptoms from the PTSD so that book helped a lot. I'll look up the extra links as well, thank you. I recently watched Gaslight and I cried the whole way through.

I'm in therapy but I feel like therapy isn't enough. I expect someone I'm paying to kind of tell me what they think I want to hear. That's the most difficult thing I think. We have a situation where we call things abuse and assault but they are people (my ex included) who would never see it that way. There are things he did that seem so unclear.

@Fightingback16 I think you've managed to put what I was trying to say into words so eloquently. I often think I'm going to go mad. I'm really sorry that the court cases are ongoing and the challenges that must bring.

My memories are all fractured, thankfully I kept diaries at the time so I have some information from them about how I felt and what was happening. There are a few things I see differently. I was upset with him one day, I can't remember why, and so he came in to hug me (rare) and asked me to make him a cup of coffee, he watched me make it and then said he wanted tea. He started slamming doors and swearing until I cried. I can't remember what he said but I'm guessing it wasn't nice. I always filed it under what the hell was that? or my fault for getting it wrong but I can see he couldn't stand me being angry with him so made me cry but this is 1 of maybe 3 things that I see clearly out of so many we I think it was something I did or said.

Maybe, part of what you are experiencing is due to the fact that you are a good person. And good people cannot process what nasty people do without a framework.
Because you cannot construct that framework yourself, you have to allow someone skilled, competent, qualified psychologically to help you in that construction...but at the same time...you are instinctively reacting in a cognitive dissonance sort of way to subconsciously not processing the trauma experienced.
Hence the forgetting. Hence the confusion.
Hence the continuing trauma.
Believe in yourself and know that what you have experienced is REAL. Don't let someone else audit that reality or tell you what is or isn't real.
You have agency. Believe it.

My husband was like what you said about yours and the cup of tea. I had been making mine this pasta dish he said he liked for over 10 years then at the end when he could tell I was moving away from him he went mad at me for making it one day, he said he hates this dish. He raised his hands at me and I said what you going to do, hit me, he then said what are you going mad. They are doing this intentionally to mess with our heads, it makes them feel bigger and better.
I’m exactly like you though and read books and it makes loads of sense then in a few days I’m confused again. I’m just not bothering anymore to make sense of it and filing it away as it wasn’t good for me and that’s enough.

The therapy I know of for ptsd is called emdr. The army uses it so it does work and it's also short. A lot of people here have vouched for it. I've always found traditional psychotherapy unhelpful and think this is more suited.

I think this is about just being so ground down you don't trust your judgement, you literally don't believe your own eyes. It's so hard to process abuse but once you do and get out the other side it's so freeing.

Once you realise it's not just you, and all abusers are exactly the same it's like. Bang! I'm out, I made it! It's over! But they fuck with your head so badly it's not easy to shake it off.

I still get triggered by things, but, weirdly reading posts on here by women who have awful husbands has really helped (mine was a biz partner) as they all say the same thing. It's validating.

@ThePathToHealing I'm in therapy but I feel like therapy isn't enough. I expect someone I'm paying to kind of tell me what they think I want to hear.

Bingo. I did 2 bouts of therapy and this is exactly how I felt. I didn't trust the process and they couldn't do anything anyway and they weren't really shedding any light on it or explaining it to me. I was just paying money to be 'heard' and I didn't felt 'heard'. I felt like £80 an hour though both were very nice.

Trauma does funny things to you as does living in such a highly stressed state for so long. If you are going to talk to anyone professionally they either need to a) know their shit and be able to shed real significant light on it, or b) be able to do something concrete to help you recover that doesn't take years. Or even months.

Does it matter to you what the outcome is, if he was abusive or just a grumpy twat, does it change at all what it has done to you......nope. At the end of the day you have been just like I have been, effected very negatively. Does his motives matter, not really. Are you out of there, yeah. Are there things you can learn from it, yeah! Did you deserve it, no. It’s shit, but if you keep giving him space in your mind then you are still letting him in. I have taken a leaf from Queen Elsa and “let it go”....well I’m giving it a good go.

Thank you all. I've been in and out of treatment since I was with him. My latest therapy stint has been around a year although when I started I couldn't say his name or the words 'domestic abuse' so I do feel I've made progress. I couldn't get angry at him because it felt like he was still in the room and if I ever spoke about him to anyone he would could get really angry and say I made him sound like a twat, which would turn into an argument which I obviously created because before I got angry it was just a 'discussion'...

I think the problem I have as has been pointed out that I just can't understand someone who would watch someone cry and not try and console them etc. Why didn't he support me? Why was he never happy? Did I ask too much?

I think I just have so much shame about what happened that I haven't resolved yet. I guess I want to learn to forgive myself.

When he met you he projected his needs onto you. You only existed to him to fulfil his needs. Your needs are surplus to requirement unless they in some way meet his needs. For example my husband saw me, I had a very big heart and I saw the absolute best in everyone. He has an internal problem, he does not feel deep down that his true self is lovable so in order to keep me loving him he forced and controlled my love so that I continued to feed his need to be loved and adored. He saw very early on I was the right person to fill his needs. He would forcefully get me to show and tell him how much I loved and needed him. He would create all the reasons why I needed him and take away any external or internal places I could seek support. They can not exist without you, they have no identity of their own, they hate themselves.

I‘m sorry but he never supported you because he doesn’t care, his needs are what’s important, he doesn’t want you distracted with your own needs. He wasn’t happy because deep inside they are not happy in their own bodies, they are deeply troubled people. Nothing you could have done would have made him happy. Yes you asked too much, anything you asked for was too much because to him you have no needs, your needs should be his needs. They don’t understand how it is to be human, they don’t understand what their actions have done and never will. To them how they behave is the only way.

It’s a very hard thing to come to terms with that the whole relationship was a lie. It’s scary the thought of the situations we’ve been in with a man we thought loved us but actually was the opposite, it changes the intensity of my memories.

You have nothing to forgive yourself for. We were at war, we did what we did to survive, acceptance but not forgiveness, we didn’t do anything wrong to need forgiving for!