Thoughts on people who don't use politeness strategies

[Macisbacktoday]

I have a male friend who I'm finding increasingly annoying because he rarely uses words like please, thanks or sorry. For example, if he cancels plans, he'll just text 'can't make it tonight' rather than 'sorry. I need to cancel, can we rearrange' or similar. If he wants help with something, it usually comes as a statement, e.g. 'you can help me wallpaper at the weekend' rather than 'can you help me ...'.

For a long time it didn't bother me because I just thought he was a bit socially inept. Then I noticed that he does very occasionally say sorry or thanks. So now it feels like he is actually choosing to not be polite most of the time. I''m after some thoughts on whether I'm just being over sensitive or whether other people would also be irritated by this before I tell him it makes me feel a bit rubbish.

@Needtogetbackinthesack - I think there's a difference between 'tone' and actual politeness. My XH used to also accuse me of using a 'tone'...I got a lot of 'don't say it with THAT look on your face!' or 'don't use that tone with me!' (I had no particular look on my face or tone in my voice) so I am hypersensitive to that sort of thing.

But the use of please, thank you and apologies - we get taught those as children. They grease the wheels of society.

MrsTerryPratchett I've known him several years and we used to work together but don't anymore so I guess up until recently we were friends just because we spent a lot of time together at work and then socialising after work.

This thread has made me think about our interactions, wider than just his lack of please and thank you though. Maybe it's time to just let it drift away.

HeronLanyon I have a linguistics background so 'politeness strategies' is probably a more technical way of describing the language used.

Is he hot though

Is he the boss in his work? I find some people with many underlings lose the run of themselves and forget how to communicate in a reasonable manner.

MrsTerryPratchett he doesn't do it for me but he's not ugly.

I think he's hot @MrsTerryPratchett. Those hot fuckers get away with murder. Literally.

@Zaphodsotherhead I think that's my issue with it all, I'm now hypersensitive to being criticised about my tone (which was always initially unintentional, then when it became a thing that I had to focus on became fake/sarcastic sounding) that now any mention of 'manners' makes me want to scream. Both my kids were quite late developers when it came to speech, HV wanted to refer them to speech therapy etc, one had a bad stammer. My mum kept forcing my eldest to say please and thanks instead of focusing on building his confidence to actually speak and helping him pronounce words so we could understand him. All this "what's the magic word/what do you say" bollocks just confused him more and we wasted a lot of time just stood waiting for him to say this completely pointless word that didn't aid communication just so my mum's social wheels were greased. It's now become a thing I passionately hate, instead of a thing I was fairly ambivalent about.

It can be a cultural thing. In Barbados a bar manager was talking about how Bajans would say "Give me beer" but with there being no lacks of manners behind it.

Maybe his stints in Europe have influenced him. I was married to a Dutch man, I know how painfully blunt they can be

But the use of please, thank you and apologies - we get taught those as children. They grease the wheels of society.

Not everyone does. Sadly. My DSC haven’t been (and I’m the mean one now trying to insist on it). Their mother never says please, thank you or (particularly) sorry, and doesn’t seem to want her children to. It’s actually quite remarkable how rude the children are. They’ve got a bit better (when I met them, it was very much an ‘I want ... now’ thing) but I’m not sure I’ve ever actually heard DSD (at 6) say thank you. Ever. Not even when she’s given a present. DSS is 3 and is starting to say please and thank you (after lots of modelling and coaching) but DSD is hugely resistant to it.

Neither of them will say sorry either. No matter what they’ve done. DSD will throw a temper tantrum and sulk for hours rather than say sorry. It’s utterly weird. I’ve never encountered such determination not to say sorry.

They are rude to everyone, and it’s not just about using the right words. DSD will end a video call with her grandma (for example) by ignoring MIL, turning to DH and saying something like: I’m bored/I don’t want to talk to grandma/I’ve had enough now. Or she just puts the phone down and walks away. It drives me crazy that he never pulls her up on it or even makes her say goodbye. There’s no way I’d have let either of mine be so outright rude.

Obviously I have told DH several times that he’s just as to blame for his children’s total lack of manners as his ex is. In fact, given he knows she’s got no manners, he should have been even more keen to teach this stuff. He’s really polite himself generally, so it’s strange (and often hugely embarrassing) that his children are so rude. And so strange that he just seems to allow it.

Sometimes he complains that my DS says sorry when he doesn’t really mean it. Yes - we all do. It’s a basic social thing that you apologise to smooth things over. If anyone believes that all apologies are heartfelt and authentic, they’re totally deluded. Very often you say sorry because the situation requires it.

So, anyway, I can imagine in the future that my DSC have friends who are utterly perplexed by their weirdly rude behaviour. Obviously things could change - but that would require action from their parents that doesn’t appear to be forthcoming.

It might be worth challenging him.

I'd probably respond to someone who said "you can help me wallpaper at the weekend" with "I can, can I? Are you asking me or telling me? "

Are you sure you want to be friends with this man, OP? He doesn't sound very nice at all. He tells you what he expects of you and then doesn't reciprocate.

@ExtremelyBoldSquirrels Are you still attracted to their dad? It would really put me off someone if his children were like that. It's all learned behaviour in the end and if he's not pulling them up on it then he has to take the blame too.

I’m working on him @HollowTalk. It is hard because how he is with and about the DSC is off-putting (and not going away, although he’s agreed to do more parenting).

He imagines himself a much more active parent than he is, but as far as I can tell he’s pretty much left everything to his ex. And she appears to think manners of any kind are not required. It is really terrible dealing with a 3 year old who thinks it’s perfectly ok to say, ‘Extremely: I said I wanted juice. Now’ (often with a really dreadful hand gesture to indicate I must do his bidding).

But it is DH’s responsibility. Always has been. It makes no difference that his ex is a SAHM or however busy he was/is at work. I’ve worked FT since I went back to work after 4 months maternity leave and I managed to teach basic manners, like most parents.

He’s also been weirdly naive about what to expect from children. Again, he was lazy enough to leave finding out what to expect to his ex and take her word for things. When I first met him, he treated his daughter like a baby and expected nothing of her. I had to explain to him that she was perfectly capable of, for example, eating without being spoon fed (she will have been doing it at nursery, just not at home) and asking in some acceptable way for things. Over time his expectations are becoming more sensible - the number of times he’s said ‘I hadn’t realised DSD would understand that’ recently is remarkable.

And then there’s the layers of divorced dad guilt, such that he feels he needs to compensate for leaving their mother (he stayed far longer than he should have for the same reason) by ‘being nice to them’. I’m kind of getting through to him that providing discipline (especially in the firm of clear expectations and boundaries) is being nice to children.

So... we’ll see. If only he could appreciate that I’m not the mean stepmum; I actually have their best interests in mind. I don’t want them to grow up to be like @Macisbacktoday‘s friend because that’s no good for anyone.

Yeah he must be hot.
Hes an entitled fucker. Stick up for yourself, doesnt matter why he does it he just does take it at face value when people show you who they are and all that. Focus on what YOU will do about it because YOU dont like it.