Best friend and ex H

[crocoonimper]

This has been on my mind for a long time. Long post for context alert!

My H left last September. I am currently at the decrees nisi/consent order stage. (I have initiated the divorce).We have 3 teenagers. I was devastated and I still care deeply for him, we are amicable and had been married 21 years together for 25.

About 3 years ago our sex life took a bit of a nosedive as he was in to domination (me dominating him), never an issue as I enjoyed it to a point but it had got more and more extreme to the point where I felt “just me” wasn’t enough for him without the games. We had an honest chat and but he locked all the toys away and then his sex drive dropped right off. Things got much less intimate and I began to feel unattractive which had a knock on ongoing effect. I left a job I loved as I thought that was the issue (NHS) and ended up in a couple of new roles which were way more stressful and think I had a bit of a breakdown TBH. I am now back in the role I love.
My Mum was seriously I’ll in hospital Then recuperating with us for 3 months and then our 11 year old was groomed online with police involvement etc (he is a copper).
Throughout all of this he was amazing and supportive although there was underlying tensions between him and one of our teenage twin boys which was difficult as I was in the middle.

After Christmas 2018 and before NY he finally dropped the bombshell that he felt all the previous described had drained our relationship/spark was gone/not in love with me any more/no one else / yadda yadda yadda. We did couples counselling where I was able to talk about the sex issue etc but he had shut all his feelings up in a box and we got nowhere. So in 2019 we sold our home and both bought separate houses.

To my point.
Alongside all of this is my very close friend, let’s call her C. I have known her for around 8 years. We were initially part of our Mums group Doing loads of active stuff, camping, socialising etc and became really close. There was socialising as a foursome with her and her H.
Her relationship however was on the rocks and she started going through a really messy separation 2 years ago though which H and I Between us supported her as best we could. We lived down the road from each other and our house became a bit of a sanctuary . She and H get on really well - this never reallY bothered me until the Beast from the East time. I remember being out in the snow and watching him teasing her with snowballs and mucking around but walking on eggshells with me. That was the first time I ever had any doubts. I asked him outright about it and was given the don’t be daft talk. I trusted him implicitly and put that thought on ice.
Over the next year or so there were times where he would be alone with her such as group camping trips where they went down early and set up tents then sat in a bar doing work together waiting for me and the rest of the group to pitch up. Just bits and pieces.
I love C - she is still having a shit time and her kids are also really hard work with various issues. I trust her and I am almost positive that there is nothing going on.

However I was chatting to a mutual friend the other night and admitted to her that I felt awful for these thoughts but nonetheless. She said that it was clear as day to a lot of them that my H “lit up” when she was there and came out of his self constructed shell. That has shocked me a bit.

It’s such a strange situation to be in and it may be a moot point as we are divorcing but its really eating away at me that maybe he has a giant crush on her and does she know?

Argh anyone had anything similar? Xx

If it smells fishy it usually is.

It’s very easy to fall for someone in a friendship group. Men also tend to gravitate towards women who need to be rescued and it sounds like this could be going on here.

@MurrayTheMonk
Oh God how horrific for you. I’m so sorry. Well done on getting through to a positive outlook you sound amazing. Such a betrayal 😢
See C and I have also been supporting each other. And I can totally see both sides in that she has said that exH is always asking her if she’s free for a coffee/needs anything/offering support and @user1481840227 yes exactly that- it really hurts that he is doing for her what he always did for me. But he would do that for anyone as he likes to be needed. As i said before he doesn’t have many friends that weren’t mutual as he was never a mates down the pub kind of bloke. He has always been more relaxed chatting to women and that’s just him but that doesn’t make him a cheater.
@Zoflorabore my gut has been shouting for at least 18 months but.... not any actual evidence and C has soo much other shit going on I really can’t see how she wd manage to be hiding that from me. I want to be the better person and believe that all of this is platonic.
Talking to her about my thoughts could destroy our friendship . I can’t take that risk..
However all of your responses have at least reassured me that I shd continue to be alert and that there may be no smoke without fire. I know I have no holds over ex H but I love my friend. X

@Ariela Cs husband is impossible to talk to and I wouldn’t want to add fuel to his treatment of her.
@Seelow yep you are bang on with the rescuing thing.
You know what - I think one of the reasons he left me was that I no longer needed that and there was no returns for his saviour actions any more because he had been doing that for so long. I spent probably 8 years or more trying to support him to have seperate friends and his own interests but he Always said he enjoyed supporting me and the kids in the background so i gave up in the end and just let him get on with it. NOW he says he wants to find himself 🤪.

@Savoretti you sound like a very principled person and I do think that if I asked C to do just what you did then she would. But you know if it’s totally innocent on both sides then why shouldnt they continue to be friends? That’s surely not my request to make. Perhaps Im the biggest mug out. Lots of days feeling like that!

If she's a true friend it won't destroy your friendship.

You said that she told you she feels awkward that they spend time together and you tell her not to worry because they're friends.

You could bring it up and say you know the way you said before you feel awkward about the time you spend with x, to be honest i'm struggling with it right now and i'm not sure of all the reasons for it but it's definitely making me feel a bit shit!

A true friend will get it, they won't even need you to put it into words or go into detail explaining your reasons.

If there is something going on between them then it might blow the whole thing out into the open...which I know would be awful and upsetting, but if there is something going on between them then it would be better to find out and get it out of the way now instead of always worrying about it. If not you could have x amount more time of paranoia and then the big reveal!

And if there really isn't anything going on then I hope they cool the friendship..I just know I would never ever rely on my friends exes like that and they wouldn't do it to me either. No one needs to see their exes be kind and caring to other women and acting in a supportive role to them when they hurt them!!

Agree totally with the poster below.

But you know if it’s totally innocent on both sides then why shouldnt they continue to be friends? That’s surely not my request to make

People normally don't have to make that request because their friends wouldn't be so insensitive or lacking in empathy to even put them in that position in the first place!

My friends ex husband recently moved very close to me. Their kids are the same age as mine.
He has asked me to meet up with him and the kids. I have been very non committal about it.
He's very laid back (partly why she ended it)
I'm pretty sure his intentions are honourable & it's genuinely for company when he has the kids but they are still in quite an acrimonious place and she is very angry with him and is quite spiky and fiery.
I barely see her as it is due to our jobs etc so I'd just feel weird if I made time for him even though its convenient.
Maybe later down the line when their split is more established and less contentious.
I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned but I feel more of a loyalty to her even tho he's easier company.

clear as day to a lot of them that xH “lit up”

Wow - it’s been noticed by others separately and then discussed - at a minimum or at worst they all “know” and this friend is just hinting.

Your gut is screaming. The timing is right.

Your xH might like that “white knight / dumsel in distress” thing - she might not have responded physically - but seems that emotionally it’s all there right under your nose. Although you can’t call it an emotional affair now as he has left - but was it then?

Maybe they are leaving a “respectable” amount of time - or maybe she is refusing his advances? Maybe they have a medium term plan to move - she / he would loose a lot of friends if this transpired.

Might be prudent to prepare for the worst and hope for the best?

You could test either of them out - by getting into a position where you face on ready to observe any and every micro movement and then say:

“Oh guess what I saw “C’s/xH’s” profile on a dating site last night”

Talking to her about my thoughts could destroy our friendship

Really? In that case she isnt a great friend. You dont need to confront her, or accuse her of anything. Tell her what you told us here.

I would never have this problem with dp and my best friend. Because my best friend is dp sister.

But if my beat friends husband was showing any signs of having a crush on me, it would be stamped on. ASAP. I am close to my best friends husband. When I left mu abusive marriage they took me and my kids in. So I am close to all of them. But she is my best friend. If he was acting dodgy, I would be likey to just ask him out right 'what the fuck?'. We have spent time on our own, when dp and his sister are busy. But we dont engineer stuff to spend time together, he doesnt light up when I am in the room.

And if my best friend did sit my down and told me she was uncomfortable or that he had a crush on me, other people had noticed (but I hadn't) and it had caused their marriage breakdown or any problems at all.....i would talk to her. Not be offended and want to know what I could do to support her.

Like it or not, if you are friends with someone who has a spouse or partner and you pick up on and hints that they have a crush, fallen in love with etc.....you back off.

Its shit that you dont need to be pulled into and its respectful to the partner. If that partner is your friend, you do it quick sharp and make it clear, that its not ok.

Simple fact here is that he feels like her saviour because she has been having problems. You dont need that. She is happy to let him play that role. To what extent, I dont know.

You are uncomfortable, because there something at play here that you don't know about. And if she is a true friend, she would discuss it with you.

You are far more likely, to lose the friendship if this continues to fester.

C’s behavior with Ex is incongruent with loyalty and true friendship to you.

In 1/19 you wrote, In the past year he has put up such boundaries that I cannot get near him emotionally or physically. It does appear that he created distance between you to make room for C. Their behavior indicates emotional intimacy beyond friendship:

-Playfulness in the snow (while he kept you at arm’s-length)
-Carving out alone-time on trips and other occasions
-Mutual enjoyment of the ego boost of his ‘looking after’ her and making her laugh
-The group’s observations

The rescuer/damsel dynamic can be very seductive.

They are possibly playing a long game, hence C mentioning Ex’s visits/shopping/support and her ‘awkwardness’ to throw you off the scent. They can later claim that love ‘just happened.’

Even if their relationship is mutually platonic or a one-sided crush, C has been highly insensitive to you and your struggle.

I would seriously consider speaking to C using @user1481840227’s wording.

Excellent post MsDogLady

If she is actually a friend and has nothing to hide, the most she will feel is horror that you think your ex wants her. That's all I would feel if a friend thought that, and embarrassment I guess. But it certainly wouldn't wreck the friendship and I would avoid all contact with the ex to prove I'm not lying. Although I wouldnt have let it get that far in the first place to be honest.

I think you should speak to her about it. You'll be able to tell by her reaction.

First of all, I’m sorry she’s being so inconsiderate of your feelings. It’s horrible losing a friendship that meant so much, sometimes it can hurt more than breaking up with a partner, however I think there is defiantly something going on Between them. She is YOUR best friend yet he seems closer. He takes her things and supports her through her tough times, but made no effort during yours. Honestly, I think he split up with you so they can be together, in a few weeks/months they’ll announce they’re seeing each other and how they couldn’t help but fall in love, when realistically it’s been going on for a while. She’s told you she feels awkward but has made no attempt to cut contact or explain to him that he’s crossing a line. Probably because that line was crossed months ago and she allowed it.

Is there any specific event / time point that they could be holding back for before “coming out” - is there a terminally ill parent, youngest DC about to go to uni, etc?

What ŵere the issues in her marriage - do you have proof if they were real?

This was my friend a few years back. In the end they “fell in love” and “you can’t help who you fall in love with”

He now lives with her in her home 2 streets away with her kids whilst virtually ignoring his own.

It has caused a shitstorm of problems as the kids go to the same school. He even picks her kids up some days whilst his own go to an after school club! How upsetting would that be.

Some men are twats and some women clearly are too!

Talking to her about my thoughts could destroy our friendship

I don't think so. You're not accusing her of anything (well, you don't have to.)

I would make it clear how you feel, as otherwise if/when she splits from her H, then both she and your ex will be single and they can see each other and technically they're not doing anything wrong, are they? Just 2 single people seeing each other (although I understand your feelings of course.)

So I would make it clear to C how you would feel in that situation. She will know it also applies to anything they might be upto or considering at the moment.

You could even make it clear how the having him run round after her doing errands etc makes you feel.

Maybe she should or does know all this, but everyone has their blind spots if they're lonely or need someone to help out, or like someone's company.

If you spell it out then a decent friend will stop it, not take it any further, and cut the time etc they spend together down.

You are divorcing him. You are going to have to get used to the idea that he may form other relationships, and that could include with people you know. Yes this may have started rather earlier than your own split, but what are you looking to achieve now?

You’re jealous because you’re still in love with him and you suspect he fancies her.

Ignore those telling you they are shagging or doing you wrong, they have no clue if anything is going on, and they can be friends, even if he does fancy her.

I think what you need to address is your feelings for him, how you accept it’s over, and how you stop yourself desperately searching for things like this.

You know there are people who post on here who will always say the man is shagging whomever, every single time, you knew what some of the answers would be.

Bottom line is you need to manage your feelings about the fact your marriage ended, and how to deal with him moving on, which he will do to someone else.

.....Yes this may have started rather earlier than your own split, but what are you looking to achieve now?......

Perhaps OP could then stop inadvertently supporting the OW, masquerading as her BF?

I don’t think the OP is in denial about moving on - she initiated the divorce, they have sold the family home and bought separate houses.

There are many posters on this thread who have personally experienced this situation and their voices are valid.

It is relevant to establish if:

She was the OW
She is now his GF post separation
He is harassing her
All is good and they have a platonic RS

Each of these have a bearing on whether the OP has a trusted best friend currently or not.

The marriage is gone but she also needs to know if her xH deserves her facilitating his non existent social life through her friends.

Haven't read every reply, but i can understand op.

I had a similar situation with my ex, we split up over his insecurities, we had many mutual friends - one day i saw him checked in with one friend, i innocently assumed that they were just knew the same people and wound up together at a place.

I mentioned it in passing to another friend and she came out with "I said I wouldn't say anything unless you asked direct, and you have, but they are seeing each other"

It was a punch in the stomach bigtime. Turned out ex had also slept with several of my other 'friends' - it hurt like a bullet, he was also controlling the narrative of me being a bad person.

In the end i had to find a peace with it, as I wasn't with him anymore, and couldn't control what any of my 'friends' wanted to belive or where they wished to put thier vaginas.

Turned out he broke a few hearts himself with his going-ons. Ive never really been able to face those people since.

I'm happy to read you and C are friends and it doesn't sound a toxic as what happend to me, mainly i wanted to share stories and give a hand hold! Even though you are apart, its a huge shock when a mutual friend comes out with something that confirms suspicions, or something to that effect..

Please try and move forward from it all, im still going through the motions 2 years on, for one reason or another.

@crocoonimper
Did you get your questions answered ?