Losing respect for people during COVID

[excelledyourself]

Anyone else feeling this way about family/friends?

It's seems quite a number of mine don't think the rules apply to them. Even those living with people who care for the vulnerable.

If you are witnessing this, how are you dealing with it? Minding your own business, or speaking up?

Oh yeah, public toilets... now why did our forebears come up with the idea of places where people could micturate and defecate in sanitary conditions?

Was it, by any chance, a public health measure?

Are there RISKS from not providing clean and safe places for people to use the bathroom??

@Khione

I'm losing a lot of respect for anyone not having any critical thinking - but I don't think that is quite your line.

The lockdown was only ever intended to be about allowing the NHS to cope. We have gone far beyond that. Why anyone is still blindly following nonsensical rules is way way way beyond me. AND yes I have lost respect for people I thought were well able to risk assess on their own behalf.

Me too

I've written quite a few people off

@Nihiloxica

It's not that I have lost respect for lockdown enthusiasts and their love of enforcing petty rules, although I have.

It's that I have been forced to face over almost 3 months that most people are incapable of assessing risk, do not think for themselves about what is right or fair but run with an increasingly irrational herd, are spiteful and have a frightening desire to control the choices of others, seek harm to the many people damaged more by lockdown than they could ever be by Covid-19, are prepared to destroy society to avoid one virus, and will do all of this feeling self-righteous.

I am watching what happens when a society goes wrong and is overtaken with hysterical judgement of others, this time using health as the pretext for removing all legitimate individual choice.

I can't believe we have done to ourselves. Or more accurately, I can't believe this was done to us with the connivance and delight of so many who want to make "safety" (from a single point of risk) the defining principle of all human life.

It's horrifying.

With you all the way

Living through a moment of mass hysteria with your eyes open is not fun

No hard sell

Your last line sums it up perfectly for me. It must be easier to be thick.

I lose respect a bit for people who can't think, in our NHS area which is huge 12500 square miles there were 2 new cases in the whole of last week if they act like it's lurking in the air above the hills and suggest it's unsafe then I know they are silly. I do not think someone who is shielding is silly for not going to Asda, but when a fit healthy 25 year old starts acting as though the risk is akin to parachuting without a parachute then I think their brains have gone AWOL.

@nohardsell and @nihiloxica have it right I can't believe so many people have given up the right to decide for themselves what risk they are comfortable with and so many ready to shame ridicule or inform on others for having come to different conclusions. So 1984, people are easily persuaded that some groups are a hindrance to society and should be marked some way, it starts relatively mildly but quickly escalates it took only a few years for Jews to be seen as slightly different to having to register separately to having to carry papers, to be banned from certain occupations told where to live wear yellow stars etc there were people prepared to ring police on any of them trying to protect their families by going underground, it is not good enough to feel duty bound to report on breaking of rules without first considering whether rules are fair, necessary or discriminatory. I do not suggest that all laws or even the majority are not right but there are laws that are overburdensome without necessity that make it hard for people to enjoy that are considered inalienable human rights but I was told to or was given orders to is not always a defence.

I work in the NHS and actually directly with services that manage COVID patients. My job is to manage and assess risk, unfortunately this means abiding by some ‘rules’ - although I refuse to be militant about them and they must make rational sense. Test and Trace guidelines have driven me to having to make certain decisions to protect the workforce and the services so it can operate functionally. Some of my decisions have not been popular but I will always look at evidence and apply them to the individual circumstances of the workforce.

Unfortunately, some members of the team do not seem to have any trust in my experience or the opinions of doctors and no respect at all. Their hysteria seems to drive them into obsessively demanding more and more mitigations - they are already 4m away, but wish to sit even further away, as if my only role is to personally protect THEM and not the whole workforce. Or that I am so blasé I can’t see why I must put extra measures in, because their cousins fathers dog is not very well and someone might touch a door handle.

I’ve lost all respect for these people. They are not willing to accept or comprehend the reasoning behind decisions and risk assessments and continually pushing their own agenda onto everyone else. I will never have any respect for them ever again although I will treat them the same as everyone else, in my mind they are selfish, inconsiderate, poorly informed and disrespectful

Im fed up of the constant judgement. Dominic Cummings aside, because his breach was so outrageous. But im not judging people who have joined the demonstrations, or seen their parents or continued using grandparents for childcare, or invited more than 6 people around to their gardens etc.

Similarly not judging people who are too scared to go out, are getting shopping delivered, keeping children home and not going to work.

I'm extremely lucky. As a key worker i was allowed to continue to use the nursery, my job can be done from home indefinitely, i drive my own car so no public transport concerns, or worries about seeing members of the public in my work place like healthcare and retail workers. Ive been dealt a really lucky hand for this pandemic so im trying not judge people who have been furloughed, felt unable to cope with the lonliness or lack of help with kids, or people who have to get on a bus or train.

I just wish we were all being nicer to each other and accepting of peoples choices now. I guess i might feel differently if i was at particularly high risk. But its a hard time, so we should cut each other some slack.

Menora

They sound quite thick.

It’s interesting this ‘not believing the doctors.’ Doctors used to be held up as gods, and everyone thought that was wrong. I work in a psychiatric hospital and I’m reliably informed that there used to be a separate dining room for the consultants, with waitress service.

I agree that’s madness.

However, the problem with breaking down systems like this, is that there’s not much to replace it. I honestly think we need Doctors to be in a position of authority, otherwise there’s nobody to trust when it comes to a health crisis.

Challenging and breaking down the authority of the medical profession or the so called ‘medical model’ (including them being shafted by the government) leads to ‘everyone’ becoming an expert.

I have a friend, for example, who works in admin for a private ambulance company. She’s been there for three or four years, and she’s now a very big ‘expert’ on medicine, and frequently chimes in with her opinion on Facebook posts where doctors are discussing something medically related.

Where I work, I’m in a very niche diagnostic role, for which I’m qualified through years of study and experience. Despite this, I continue to have quite newly qualified nurses tell me they ‘just don’t agree’ with my diagnosis, even though they aren’t able to articulate why, and are in no way qualified to judge.

So, in my experience, breaking down the ‘medical model’ may well have appeased those who didn’t see why consultants were treated like gods, widely trotting out the adage that they ‘spend all their time on the golf course.’ However, it has created a system where there is no trust in experts because individual, ill informed opinion is held up to be of equal value to that of the true experts (see my example above of my friend who works for an ambulance company).

We live in a society where nobody trusts experts, everyone trusts their own opinion more, and sadly, lots of people are astonishingly stupid.

individual, ill informed opinion is held up to be of equal value to that of the true experts

I totally agree with this point.

All opinions are not equal, and should not be given the same weight.

Ah but, stupid people do shout very loudly don’t they? Just as they talk loudly, play loud music and use a lot of exaggerated language.

It makes people listen to them.

I agree. I am not a doctor but I take the advice of doctors, research from other sources (such as very large hospitals) and shared knowledge across professions to make decisions. I don’t make them based on my own bloody opinion as it is not the same thing

Quite

There have been times in my life when I’ve just wanted a doctor to tell me what to do, not present me with five options to avoid seeming overly paternalistic.

I’ve found that when I’ve asked their opinion on the best option, they’ve almost seemed relieved.

I’d love to see a return to some of the vague norms where the doctor knew best about your health and the police had the authority to police the streets.

The pandemic has been an eye opener

I find it interesting how many people think that they should be able to judge risk around meeting up etc. I know that I'm an intelligent person with good critical reasoning skills but I don't think for one second that I can judge the risk to public health across the country of more than 6 people, no social distancing etc. I assume (perhaps stupidly) that those rules have been set as part of a country-wide risk assessment by people who know a lot more about it than I do, hence I try and follow them.

Nihil that is such a good post. I wish I could meet you for coffee?!

I'm amazed how frightened people are, even in quiet towns with nobody about - my neighbours won't even go for a walk as they are terrified. They think the schools should not open in September and so on. People are using it as an excuse not to work as well.

Like Xtin I don't say anything though. As people have lost all sense of proportion and rationality. I've had even a friend screaming at me about some minor infringement that was essential a couple of weeks ago, by my judgement and affected nobody else.

MSM Mainstream Media and news is constantly whipping people up into hysteria and adding another layer to the whole political 24/7 "Gotcha" mentality that we have now.

Still there is always an upside. I only read the news on Reuters UK now. And I have stopped reading the newspapers and their insane and hysterical obsessive reporting.

I have to admit I’m living my normal life now and just keeping my distance in queues.

*I'm losing a lot of respect for anyone not having any critical thinking - but I don't think that is quite your line.

The lockdown was only ever intended to be about allowing the NHS to cope. We have gone far beyond that. Why anyone is still blindly following nonsensical rules is way way way beyond me. AND yes I have lost respect for people I thought were well able to risk assess on their own behalf*.

This

Some people I thought were intelligent I am now starting to have second thoughts about. Swallowing bullshit whole and failing to look at data themselves and analyse it accordingly.

I'm on the other side for sure.

I'm finding it very strange that some people think the whole world should stay shut down until the whole virus is gone!!
or that healthy people are freaking out over this and barely leaving their homes at all.
Or that their thinking is so black and white that the only risk they see to peoples health at the moment is covid...and they're ignoring all the other things
The worst are the people who think that the elderly people should stay locked up for their own good, maybe they want to go out and try to live the rest of their lives as they please because they don't know how long they have left.
Imagine living to be elderly and then having all of your choices taken away (for your own good). It's offensive.
If they want to stay in their homes then fine but no one should think it's acceptable to lock them up.

@LemonsLive

Meet me for a snog over on the Anti-Dementors thread

I wish the government would admit its gone beyond flattening the bloody curve

I have lost some respect for some friends but I'm trying not to let it ruin the friendship.

Nihiloxica - I am watching what happens when a society goes wrong and is overtaken with hysterical judgement of others, this time using health as the pretext for removing all legitimate individual choice.

I agreed with all of your post, and this bit the most. I feel like we're all sleepwalking into something that we'll look back on and think, "how the fuck did that happen?"

I've had huge doubts that all is well with the guidelines, statistics & science of it all. Delved much further than mainstream media & I honestly feel there is some kind of agenda behind it at worst but at the least a huge exaggeration. I agree that some kind of lockdown was the right thing to do but it has gone on far too long now & the guidelines particularly newer ones are just ridiculous. I do understand why vulnerable people felt scared & it was definitely sensible to isolate them but what gets my goat is how 'friends' have attacked me for my views. Calling me disgusting for not caring about those that have died & they hope 'when I get it & end up in ITU there's a bed for me'!! Not once have I said the threat to some isn't real but such a long lockdown will cause long lasting consequences in many ways. I've been told I obviously don't care about my ds because I'd jump at the chance of his year group going back to school.. he & I both need it!!

I have not flouted any guidelines as there is no chance of doing that.. no family close by. Just daring to question the narrative has now lost me friendships. But the hypocrisy of people is what annoys me the very same people have had friends round from the beginning (worst kept secret)

When I confided that my mental health had taken a huge dip (very isolated lone parent, worried for my job) the response was oh we knew you were down because you were spouting such offensive views! Am I not allowed to still care that people have died & that the NHS copes but still be glad when lockdown is over? But no according to one friend the economy won't suffer because the government can just go & print off more money if they need it !! 🙈

Who are these people who can ‘decide not to work’.? What jobs do they do?
I was furloughed- not my choice. When my boss says come back on X day I’ll be there or I’ll have no job at all

How nice to be able to ‘choose ‘ not to go back

There was a man on tv at the very beginning, quite sensible looking/sounding. Some sort of actual expert.

They asked how he would manage it. He said that, in an ideal world, he would shop all of the vulnerable people to the north of Scotland and let the rest of us catch it.

He looked as though he knew that the idea of shielding the vulnerable wasn’t an option really.

I personally thought that we should pay for those who were vulnerable to stay home and let the rest of us take our chances. I’m still if that opinion really.