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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toddler and Marriage

41 replies

beanseedling · 03/06/2020 09:05

Hello
My first time posting
I have no friends who are parents and would love someone to talk to.

My husband and I both have a pretty good relationship with our daughter, and our relationship through her is fine. We don't argue about much of anything parenting wise, only one recurring spat that will probably never go away and we both know it and that's the age old balancing act of protection vs exploration for our child that we hold so dear.
We both want to protect her and keep her safe of course, and also both want her to learn and discover, but his alarm for protection usually goes off quite a bit more than mine. Also to stop her from damaging things.
He sometimes gets himself so worried about her that it becomes absurd and I go from being frusterated to laughing. For example being in the garden all three of us, and he said "don't" so many times I was going mad!! "Don't walk near that rock "don't walk too far away" "don't touch the mud" "don't go near that millipede it's poisionous" "don't touch the pots" "dont don't etc etc .... eventually while I had left for five or ten minutes, I came back and he had her standing on a flat rock , two feet in diameter , telling her not to move off the rock.....
I have been out there with just us two more lately
Wondering if anyone has any advice on how to try to help your spouse not worry so much, and help your child be able to explore . How to slow the "don't" train down a bit and let him know when he's being overprotective , without causing a fight or stepping on his toes as a father.

Thank you so much for any replies. Sorry for the length of this post...

OP posts:
mylittlesandwich · 04/06/2020 06:39

Worry is rational to a point. Being so concerned that your child may get dirty doesn't sound rational. Dirt is unlikely to cause serious harm to your child, if she gets dirty so long as she doesn't stick her hand in her mouth before you can clean her up I can't see the harm. So it sounds like his level of anxiety is not proportionate to the risk.

Also anxiety is very real, I suffered with it badly when DS was first born, being worried about a new baby is normal. Being so anxious you can't think clearly is not.

MollyButton · 04/06/2020 07:04

I think that he should ideally get some help. Maybe fatherhood is bringing out long suppressed memories of his childhood? Maybe his anxiety is heightened at present, and coming out with his parenting?
Can you make him laugh? Say something like "now play nicely while I pop to the loo, I don't want X confined to a rock when I return".

And when calm have a discussion about "children need to get messy" and "a peck of dirt never did anyone any harm" etc.

Menora · 04/06/2020 09:41

Ok fine. I have no issue with Male figures overall but you described quite a sad picture in your OP of when you left the scene, your young child was made to stand still on a rock in the middle of the garden so she wasn’t touching anything or moving - this sounds irrational and controlling and you came here to ask for advice about it and I provided my perspective to you as an outsider looking in.

There are other perspectives and there is a whole perspective about exposing children to germs and bacteria to boost their immune system. The more you post about him the more it seems he has an issue with dirt

Flyingf1edgelings · 04/06/2020 11:03

I totally get it, I am constantly risk assessing everything. It's not intentional to try and control situations and children, we are trying to avoid accidents with the children getting hurt.
I have improved in past 2 years. I used to have panic attacks on fear of something bad happening.

I give the children more freedom now, when they get hurt I am better at controlling my emotions now I used to cry and panic.

Menora · 04/06/2020 11:47

It isn’t exactly intentional I agree, but once you become aware of it (or someone else makes you aware) it’s your duty as a parent to try to rectify and correct your behaviour. Not find more and reasons to justify and continue it.

I had a real fear of choking when they were little, really was horrible but I knew I had to let them eat things. DC do pick up on your anxiety, at 2 you won’t see it now, but you will later on, you are naive if you resolutely believe they will not. You also have a weird view of anxiety perhaps look into that a little bit. It’s not the same as naturally worrying about things

beanseedling · 04/06/2020 15:55

Wow. I never thought I would open up a big discussion about mental health issues .....
I just wanted to talk to some mums about their experiences with both their spouses and themselves trying to balance protecting their child from harm and showing them the world . This is a very normal thing to go through in parenting .
My husband is very intelligent and read a lot, he knows a lot about a lot of different things and has a lot of life experience so that is probably part of why he gets more concerned than me about dangers.
But he is a very fun person and is great with our kid. He sees her climbing big boulders on the beach around oysters and is glad and proud of her learning to climb but just says nicely "be careful around the oysters their really sharp" that's a good father if you ask me.
The day she was on the rock was out of the ordinary but demonstrated my original discussion point. We all have our extreme moments , it's really not that big of a deal

OP posts:
Menora · 04/06/2020 16:18

Well I gave you some experiences as both a parent and a child but you didn’t like them as they don’t fit with your narrative

In your original post you said that ‘He gets himself so worried it becomes absurd’ and then described the situation of the rock and that it’s causing arguments between you.

you are offended that i said it was silly, but you already called it absurd and that you laugh at him.

As a parent (and human) I obviously have more of a vested interest in the welfare of a child, than I do a fully grown and developed adult, it’s not my role to care about your husbands feelings when giving advice on something that is directed AT and about the child. You should be your child’s advocate first, and a husband/wife second in my own opinion anyway.

beanseedling · 04/06/2020 16:23

@menora
I do thank you for your perspective and for trying to help
I am not trying to be rude when I say that , I'm sorry I made the comment about male figures, it was wrong of me to attach your comments about one person to men. But I don't appreciate you saying my husband is silly and irrational.
I have looked into anxiety, and maybe my view is weird but it is what I have concluded. I think there has been a huge overuse of psychiatry and 'mental health' diagnosis in recent years . If you look into psychiatry you will find if your honest that every single person , including the psychiatrists have multiple disorders.
Anyway that is a whole other discussion not really for a parenting forum.
This was not meant to be about mental health!!

OP posts:
beanseedling · 04/06/2020 16:28

@menora
It's okay for me to say it was absurd because he's my husband and I was saying it in a loving way. You don't know him and are making up a whole profile and imaginary person out of one event I described to you and frankly you are now becoming quite absurd. I wouldn't usually say to a stranger that they are absurd (or silly or anything else of the kind) without knowing that there was rudeness to it. But now I think it is called for , to say to you. I am not going to reply to you anymore.

OP posts:
Icloud54 · 04/06/2020 16:46

I would watch out, in the future, for your child to show sings of being anxious and unsure about things.
I have 2 children and have never patented the way your husband seems to be doing.
Children naturally explore and that is how they learn- including getting dirty in mud etc.

If your garden is such a unsafe or unhygienic place for your child to play in then maybe remove all those things and had things that she can play with instead.

It sounds like she is constantly being heard 'NO' or 'DONT'

Also it's worrying you can't bring these issues up with your husband, is he controlling in other parts?

Icloud54 · 04/06/2020 16:50

eventually while I had left for five or ten minutes, I came back and he had her standing on a flat rock , two feet in diameter , telling her not to move off the rock.....

THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

beanseedling · 04/06/2020 16:51

@Flyingf1edgelings
Thanks for sharing your experience
Good for you for stepping back and being strong.
Maybe that change was natural? as your child got older and was less small and weak and more able to understand the world around them, you could become less concerned with their safety.
Anything particular change your outlook?

OP posts:
Menora · 04/06/2020 18:16

It is worrying you are more concerned about the reactions, perception wellbeing of your husband in this matter, than the impact of his behaviour on your child. It seems to stand out significantly here, although that wasn’t the intention of the first post, as the posts have developed you have become more and more defensive of him. I am not the only poster who has said that they think he is being irrational I am just one of the posters and I have hit a raw nerve somewhere - you know he is irrational, because you laugh at him. Thing is, it’s actually not funny.

This is a public forum and you asked for advice of strangers - it does not come with a caveat that they are only allowed to use the language you decide is acceptable. Ask your friends and family if you want a view that incorporates both of your personalities and experiences - none of which we have access to.

If you also choose to be of the mindset that you do not believe in anxiety or mental health disorders I do really hope that you broaden your view and educate yourself. As a parent it’s important to consider facts and evidence when forming an opinion about mental health. It is not ‘factual’ to make a statement like: I think there has been a huge overuse of psychiatry and 'mental health' diagnosis in recent years. If you look into psychiatry you will find if your honest that every single person including the psychiatrists have multiple disorders. in fact this is ignorant AND pretty offensive. There are traits in most people of different elements, but to dismiss anxiety as ‘something everyone has from time to time’ is a cretinous statement. And yes is offensive and narrow minded.

There is information on mental health from the DSM-5 which can give you an overview of the disorders you are so kindly dismissive of, despite other people sharing with you their experiences of anxiety and how much it can affect your life and that of a child.

It well known that parents who display anxiety to their children in the early years of development, can impact on the child learning anxiety - they are learning from their parents, so they will learn the anxiety or stress from you. It is your role as a parent to manage your own emotions and feelings so that they do not have a negative impact on your child. If you teach your child to stand on a rock in the garden and tell them ‘don’t’ over and over again for years of their life, you may end up with an anxious child.

You also are asking when the child becomes less weak and fragile, will your husband change/relax? He may find other things that cause anxiety and essentially, you will look at ways to train the child to comply that you want them to do, not what they actually want to do. Parenting is different of course - some parents want a more regimented child who is very well behaved and knows and follows all the ‘rules’ some believe in more freedom and exploration (like Montessori settings do). The issue can come when you have more than one child, it becomes far more difficult to supervise them as you then focus on the safety of the smaller child. If you want to raise your child in a strict household with the rules such as standing still on the rock and very carefully supervised ‘fun’ then that is both of your choices although this may be different when they start school or nursery where they have a routine but are not 1:1 supervised, have more free play and interaction with other children and tend to have more minor accidents. You hope that you have set them up successfully for going to school as it’s so different from home. Resilient children who have learnt from the falling over/making a lot of mess/having freedom tend to do better at school as they have the skill set already to make decisions on their own.

images.pearsonclinical.com/images/assets/basc-3/basc3resources/DSM5_DiagnosticCriteria_GeneralizedAnxietyDisorder.pdf

childmind.org/article/how-to-avoid-passing-anxiety-on-to-your-kids/

mylittlesandwich · 04/06/2020 18:37

Agreed. You seem very concerned that we may think your husband is not acting rationally. The ways he seems to be preventing your child from doing most things don't sound like a parenting technique. They sound anxiety driven. Overcoming my anxiety was not just for my child. As much as he definitely benefits from me feeling much better. It was also for myself. Your husband will have a genuine fear of what could happen if she does these things that in his mind pose a real threat to her. I broke down in tears because I was convinced DS was going to die. While I don't think I your husbands case is quite as severe it will be causing him mental anguish.

There probably has been an increase in the diagnosis of mental health conditions in more recent years but not because we've invented them. One of the reasons at least will be that we understand them better and can better help people who're suffering. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

You asked for help but you seem to have taken offence because it has been pointed out that your husband may be in need of some help. Keep in mind what's been said and watch the way your husband interacts with your daughter. You might just see some truth in it. And yes your daughter will pick up on his anxiety, we are the main role models for our children and at the moment she's learning that everything is scary.

Embracelife · 04/06/2020 18:41

He needs help for his anxiety
The answer to touching dirty pots is to wash hands afterwards

beanseedling · 08/07/2020 00:44

@mylittlesandwich

I am glad for the advice. Yes I did take offence to the way another poster was talking about my husband. I do not take offence to you and appreciate your opinion. I am open to different opinions as long as they are given in an understanding and respectful way. I feel you are not trying to attack my husband but a genuinely trying to help me and my family. I will consider what you have said and look out for effects on my child. Thank you

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