Can you ever find respect that you lost?

[RumpyTurman]

Short version of events is that I asked DH to leave last week. There's nothing spectacularly bad in our relationship, I'm just not happy. He was a lot more upset than I thought he would be and asked for a chance to make changes. He left for a few nights and then came home and in his defence has started to really address the issues (whether he can sustain this effort long term remains to be seen).

But it occurred to me last night that I think the key issue is that I no longer respect him. In our eight year relationship he has struggled to hold down jobs constantly (he managed a 3 year stint in telesales, left it two years ago for something I perceived as quite risky and ended up losing that job after a few weeks, which led to six months of unemployment/jobs lasting a couple of weeks). He eventually found something he wanted to do, did it for a year and then left for another similar but lower paid job closer to home (5 mins as opposed to 25 mins) - luckily he has passed his probation there. But he's always been a low paid worker because he has no qualifications or ambition. This didn't bother me so much when we met and I was only 20, but it really does now.
The constant having to ask him to tidy his pile of mess in the bedroom, reminding him of basic things he needs to do with our son like sort a bath and dinner (he has been much better at this this week), and the gaming.

Writing it out now I can see that I am married to a manchild. The problem is he is a manchild who I love very much and who I can see is making an effort, and if he can sustain the effort long term then I really do hope this might work. But if I've lost respect for him, can I ever get that back? I'm worried I'm allowing him to fight for a marriage that has no hope.

Yes you can gain respect for him but you might want to tell him you don’t feel as much respect for him because it’s like you have to tell him, you have to have the drive for him. Maybe he’ll get it’s not about just pulling his weight but also taking initiative.

Hmmm, I think I might be like your partner ,i have always worked but have changed jobs for different reasons , sometimes unfathomable reasons . I think looking at the bigger picture is helpful here. Does he pay his way when he can? Does he expect you to bail you out when he makes decisions like quitting his job? Does he talk about this with you? Honestly , will he ever be an equal partner to you? And equal can mean different things....

I don't want to sound pathetic and make excuses for him. But I am the way I am because of low self esteem and mental health problems , but I have been working really hard to overcome these . Does he think he has an issue? Will he work to resolve it if he does?

If he doesn't , then you can probably expect life to continue as it has been. With you as his mother and him expecting to pay digs or something .

Also , it's not your job to fix his problems and you don't need a reason to walk away . Twenty is young to meet ( I met my ex at 18 and we aren't together any more) , sometimes you can just have different values and want different things . There doesn't have to be a bad guy . But it's not a reason to stay together . The one thing a relationship will struggle with is contempt and another ten years might reveal that in spades .

You can find the respect for him that you lost but it will take massive action and changes from him. (Speaking from experience).

Absolutely he can change but unfortunately sometimes you do have to keep guiding and promoting until it becomes second nature.

If you love him enough to help him through, then do it but not at the cost of your well being.

Actions speak louder than words. If he can sustain these changes and grow up then yes, you can gain back the respect.

@FromRockBottom I think that has been the problem, when he lost his job a couple of years ago I got into debt having to pay for everything (in the lead up to Christmas too), and have had to do this a few times. Our finances are completely separate because he has always been bad with money - last summer he took out an IVA without any discussion with me, I only found out about it when his bank froze his card before he expected (he had planned to move his money into a different account) and he couldn't cover his contribution to the household finances.

When he is working he pays a fair amount (less than me but in proportion to our incomes). And in our five year marriage he has probably only spent about six months out of work so I don't want to be unfair to him, and he genuinely seems happy in his current job which is not something I have ever known him to be.

He has also spoken to the doctor about depression, the morning after I asked him to leave, and immediately started taking medication, which is a really big step for him.

I was married for 19 years and my dcs were growing up . It hit me when they left I'd still be left with what felt like a 3rd child, namely my husband , tbh it chilled me to realise that .
Can I suggest you set your mind to the future and imagine what your thoughts of that time of your life will be .
If it isn't something your feel is positive , is their anything you can do now to improve things ? Perhaps a calm conversation with him, and a promise on both sides to work on your relationship. Do you think in the past you have both fell into behaving in a certain way ? Perhaps you parent him too much ,which makes him act like a child .
My husband is now an ex and we have absolutely no contact, and haven't for years . I am in a happy situation , but occasionally I do wonder if things had been done better if we'd worked things out.
( I've shared that because you say you do love him, so perhaps all is not lost )

I think that, ultimately, if he corrects himself because he's been told to, you'll lose respect for him even more. What kind of person lives a respectful life because otherwise, they'd get in trouble with their partner?

@victoriabun I am probably guilty of parenting him in the past, and I have tried to do this less. For example, the massive pile of crap in the bedroom - rather than nagging him to tidy it, I'll push it into the back corner (so behind my view when i'm in bed) and leave him to it. Rather than asking him to do DS some dinner or a bath (if I'm working - currently WFH and DH is out the house til 4pm so he takes over when I get in) I will say "oh it'll be dinner time soon, what would you like?" to DS and DH has started saying "No worries I'll sort it".

So I am trying to change the way I speak to him.

I should add there are a couple of things I am working on too at his request but these are much easier (namely cutting contact with an ex that has made him feel insecure - no issues with that, the ex means nothing to me and is not someone I will ever bump into, and toning down being a bit of a flirt in general, which I accept!)

@eckhart it isn't so much him correcting himself - I'm not asking for significant changes. But someone who takes a bit of initiative with parenting our child (which has has proven this week he is more than capable of), starting to access some mental health support, and cutting back a bit on the gaming (which had been 5 hours a night EVERY night for the six weeks before I asked him to leave).

I don't care so much about earning potential but more about him being happy at work.

I'll also add that I haven't told him what changes to make - I was pretty set on him leaving and told him the reasons why. He is the one who wanted an opportunity to address the issues and fight for our marriage. His reaction to being asked to leave was not what I expected at all - I expected an argument and anger, not sadness and regret and an acknowledgement of his poor behaviour. This caught me off guard and so I agreed to give us a chance. I don't regret that choice.

Getting an IVA and NOT talking to you about is a massive tick in the "this might not work out" box. You are married and have a child? I think this is a really big betrayal if I'm honest . This is something that could affect things like getting a mortgage or any large commitment in credit. It was very much your business and to not tell you is really quite awful . Did he say why he didn't tell you ?

The going to the doctors and getting antidepressants a tick in the "this might work out box"

But.... If he only did that because he's scared of losing you and that bolstered him to action then that isn't great. ....

...... In this regard I have been there , depression, low self esteem, anxiety can lead to you behaving poorly .

Is this everything?

He doesn't work consistently
He doesn't contribute consistently
He makes decisions that affect you but doesn't tell you
He games excessively ( till recently)
He needs to be old to parent his child
He doesn't pull his weight around the house
Basically his self motivation is low , he has no get up and go?

This is a lot BUT he could work on these things , especially if they have been exacerbated by mental health problems and he's accessing support ....

But it's enough to also walk away. ...and say you have been supportive but it hasn't worked out ..

It sounds like he's doing all the right things.

I agreed to give us a chance. I don't regret that choice.

Then all you can do is see how it goes, it sounds promising.

I suppose it depends what you look for/don't mind in a man. Your flirting was probably because you're not getting what you look for in a man.

For me, someone can game, whatever (admittedly, I don't have kids) but they have to have something about them that I look upto and admire- it could be knowledge, work (it's not the money it's my thinking that they're doing something impressive) whatever.

Of course this desire for someone to look upto can get me into trouble with narcs etc or relationships with imbalances of power, so it's all a balance.

I think maybe you don't mean that type of respect, you just mean that you don't want to think he's crap? If so, he probably is doing everything you need, it'll just take time.

Do you think you still fancy him or could grow to? For that, it's not enough for them just to not be crap IMHO. They have to demonstrate some impressive qualities.

I suppose that's like what you said about wanting him to take the initiative. If you have to let him know what needs doing then it's like he's under you rather than an equal, which isn't attractive.

I'm unable to work through mental ill health and have never really been able to, but if I had a partner in the same position they'd have to have some selling points that impressed me.