Don't know how to feel about this.

[JustAnotherFriday]

After an emotionally and physically abusive and neglectful childhood, and a handful of abusive at worst, disinterested at best, relationships I now find myself at 45 years old never having experienced love.

I feel like I can't 'expect' to be loved. I have often craved it and the lack of it has caused me great mental anguish and physical pain at times. I am currently going through a period of peace and acceptance around it. But I'm still uncertain and sad about it.

After being single for a while myself, I've been seeing someone since early November. He treats me with kindness and thoughtfulness.

Aside from a long term abusive relationship, this is my longest relationship so far - which gives some idea of how crap I am! But I don't think it's a relationship really. He refers to it as one. I suggested we break up a few weeks ago and he was shocked - not what he wanted (although I thought it was) - so we didn't. But I don't know what it's supposed to look like.

I know he hasn't fallen in love with me. Nor do I imagine he ever would. Does it matter? I don't know. Being desired, loved and cherished seems like a very big ask. I've not managed it yet and I'm only getting older and less desirable as the years pass by.

I suspect that I'm probably a bit of a stop gap for him - I can't imagine he's given up his years of singledom for me with a view to it being long term with me. I think he just thinks it's nice. Does it matter? I mean, I experience some affection that I wouldn't otherwise have, I have company (obvs not currently in person) etc. We have sex and I get to experience that post coital affection/closeness that I wouldn't otherwise have. Although I'm aware that it's post-sex euphoria and not me per se.

Does it matter?

Why did you want to break up with him?

I didn't want to really. I was giving him an 'out'. We'd been in lockdown for about 6 weeks and I suspected he probably wanted to end it but wasn't going to do the shitty thing of dumping me by phone/text when he knew I was struggling with the isolation.

'What is coming at you is actually coming from you.' You're pushing people away due to your feeling (stemming from childhood neglect) of being fundamentally unlovable. You have two choices: carry on as you are and try to find peace in your situation, or be brave, go to counselling and do the hard work necessary in the hope of a brighter future. It is your life and your choice.

You need some help with your self esteem. You're trying to get rid of him before he gets rid of you without any evidence whatsoever that he actually wants to end it.

You need to work on you. It's like you push it away because you feel that you have no right to be loved and you do.
He might not love you yet but he could. I'm sorry you had a shit childhood but you are worthy of love

Has he told you he doesn't love you? Doesn't he treat you as if you're cherished and desired? How much of this is his actual voice and how much is it your inner saboteur's voice?

Hard to judge without knowing the dynamic but sounds very possible that you could be self sabotaging it?
Unless he is genuinely being a bit crap and leaving you dangling and wondering about his feelings?
Try not to make assumptions or read into how he’s feeling.
If you enjoy it and it’s nice for you, then carry on and see what happens after lockdown.

Do you love him?

He hasn't told me that he doesn't love me directly but I assume that if he did, he would tell me. And I have no reason to think that he does.

I think he likes me. He'd have taken the 'out' I gave him otherwise. I presume..?

He's not someone who is comfortable talking about feelings generally but, from what I see of the way he treats others, and what he has said, and what I know of him generally, I'm confident that he's not someone who is careless with other people's feelings. He tries to do right by people - never speaks ill of anyone and, even when he has a right to be annoyed, he is very generous towards others.

I know he has had one long term relationship and another shorter one. I know he has loved and been loved. He has dated a fair bit but they've not really gone anywhere. I find him very attractive but he is very self conscious about a couple of aspects of himself and lacks self confidence. He said his youth was blighted by wanting to approach beautiful women but being too shy to do so. And being rejected when he did.

He said when we met that he wouldn't ordinarily have been so forward in speaking to me.

I don't love him, no. But I could. I wouldn't let myself until I knew it was safe to do so. I like him very much, i care about him, I miss him and look forward to seeing him and I'm attracted to him.

I think I'm trying to understand/work out whether it's ok to have all of this without love if that's just never going to be on the cards for me.

Well, it's still fairly early days in the relationship, I'm not sure why you think he will never love you?

Have you done any counselling / therapy?

It is still early days. Especially considering the current situation, so I wouldnt expect it anyway and, tbh, I'd be very wary of someone who said they did at this stage - how can you know someone well enough!

I don't know. I feel quite anxious around him sometimes. But that is all me because I don't feel like I'm good enough for him.

To use a phrase I've seen on other threads, he's definitely the 'highest value' man I've dated. He is the sort of man I could definitely see myself with long term. But he's very intelligent. I haven't dated someone more intelligent than me for a while and I'm a bit intimidated by him, I think.

And I 'fancied' him long while before we got together. I think I feel at a bit of a disadvantage tbh!

I read once that, in every relationship there is a 'reacher' and a 'settler'. I don't buy into that sort of thing normally but to use it as a blunt tool to explain how I feel, I feel like I am the 'reacher'.

He could do better.

I have done a great deal of counselling and therapy and I've grown a great deal and moved on enormously over recent years generally. I'm almost unrecognisable. When I first met him a couple of years ago, I completely ignored him because I was so intimidated. I didn't do that in November

+I like him very much, i care about him, I miss him and look forward to seeing him and I'm attracted to him+

Hmmm. Many of the key components of love there, I would say.

I think I'm trying to understand/work out whether it's ok to have all of this without love

That's what love is. It's not some magic lightning bolt; it's a willingness to put the other before you and the slow accretion of shared experiences.

The fact that you 'don't know how to feel' suggests to me that you think there is a right and wrong way to feel. There isn't. You might feel like leaving him, you might feel like staying. You might feel like setting new boundaries or changing the shape of the relationship: all options are valid. If you don't know how you feel, you don't have to know. Nobody is pressuring you to feel anything.

Spend some time tuning in to your genuine responses. Learn to understand what your emotions are telling you. What you should feel doesn't matter. What DO you feel?

Many of the key components of love there, I would say.

Really? I know that the 'lightning bolt' feeling of being 'in love' is often nothing of the sort and it's certainly not been in the past.

My children and I were isolating the first two weeks of lockdown and he got in touch every day (we don't normally speak every day due to work and other commitments). I thought he was just being kind because knew I was a bit anxious but he told me after I'd suggested breaking up that he'd been "really worried" about us.

The fact that you 'don't know how to feel' suggests to me that you think there is a right and wrong way to feel.

Yes, I suppose I do.

I know that I wouldn't do anything knowingly to hurt him and I don't think he would either - but that's a quality of his and not a response to me. If that makes sense.

Op, you're projecting how you feel about yourself onto him and assuming he has the same thoughts and feelings that you do.

Firstly, opinions and thoughts are not facts. Thinking something doesn't make it true.

Secondly, does he treat you with respect and kindness? Does he appear to enjoy your company and value your time together? Is there any evidence in the way he interacts with you that demonstrates that he feels 'he could be doing better?' The fact that you feel he could do better is very sad, but you need to remember that he probably doesn't share that opinion and he's consciously chosen to be with you, and in all liklihood that's because he really likes you.

I sorry if this offends you, but 'giving him an out' looks like game playing to me. Sometimes insecurities lead people to test their dp's to prove their commitment and love. It's not nice to be on the receiving end of these tests.

Poor you I think you should talk to him about your childhood and how you feel. From what you've written here he sounds lovely, very in tune with you and happy to be with you. So this is a great shot at a loving relationship. Being open with him will help you work out where you stand.

I don't know if you are a reader, but the book "Attached" by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller could help you understand why you work the way you do, why he does and what you can do to have a more fulfilling relationship.

Good luck op. Seriously, it sounds like a good relationship to me.

I agree you are projecting. Your past has made you feel unlovable and not worthy so you can't believe he could feel love for you or see worth in you.

Have you ever had therapy? I think you ould really benefit from it.

*The fact that you 'don't know how to feel' suggests to me that you think there is a right and wrong way to feel.

Yes, I suppose I do*

For me, this was the crux of a lot of self esteem issues, and a lot of relationship issues. Realising that I'm the one who gets to choose what is ok/not ok for me, rather than wondering if I'm being strange/oversensitive/offensive, just by feeling what I feel, was a HUGE realisation.

Whatever we feel is ok. It is who we are. It is to be respected by ourselves, and by others. We must be authentic to it, otherwise we are not authentic people, and that's where game-playing starts. Like saying you were leaving him when really you could have said 'I feel like you want to leave. Is that accurate?'

You have the power, OP. If you think you're a stop gap, is that what you want? Is it really the case? If you're not sure, can you ask him?

The real questions aren't to do with how you should feel. They are more about 'Am I happy? Am I getting what I need and want? If not, how can I get what I need and want?'

It sounds like you want more from a relationship, but that you don't think you deserve it. You do deserve it though. You've had a rubbish experience of love while you were growing up. That doesn't translate into you not being worthy of love now. It sounds to me like it's time to find a really positive experience of love now.

You feel that you are not good enough for him. You are. Those voices in your head? They are not the truth. How people treated you and what they said to you is not a reflection of who you are, but a reflection of who they are.

You deserve a loving relationship. I too think that further counselling or at the least reading would be a good plan.

OP I don’t want to be mean (and this is more testament to how sad I am remembering old MN threads!) but you got a lot of advice on your many other threads on the same topic. Is this ruminating on the same subject making you happy? At this point it does seem like an obsession which you’re finding it difficult to find relief from and I’d echo the posters here and in the past who’ve advised you to talk to a professional therapist here, because I don’t think MN is helping you at all. Sorry to hear you’re feeling anxious and I hope things work out for you.