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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive Ex manipulating 9 yr old dd. V long post.

19 replies

humbadadum · 13/05/2020 02:06

I am really struggling with this. Background to this is that I recently left an extremely abusive relationship. Mainly emotionally abusive relationship (including coercive control but also occasional physical abuse - though he was always in control enough to avoid inflicting bruises etc.). The abuse often took place in front of our children. I had no support from family (who live abroad and still think he is amazing & no financial independence). When dd2 was born, I forged supportive friendships - they knew I was desperately and actively trying to find a path to leave. After two years of trying to even get a call back, I was at the depths of despair. But thank goodness somebody finally looked beyond my career gap, read my CV, invited me to an interview and I was offered the job of my dreams.

DP has never been present or involved in any way in the dds' day to day life. More like indifferent to their existence - he spent most of the past few years out drinking and hardly returning home, secretive about phone, generally very nasty person. Most certainly an alcoholic. On the rare times he was at home for more than a couple of days, he would stalk my phone and internet activity & accuse me of affairs. I hardly ever went out in the evening and when I did, he would wait up and interrogate me.

Whenever he was vaguely 'present', he had a huge preference towards dd1 - would take her out for a lavish day out (extravagant toys / dresses / experiences etc.) but refuse to take her little sister who he barely acknowledged until she was around 4 yrs old (last year). He can occasionally be very caring towards her but now that I think of it, it's actually almost always based on 'stuff' he has bought. He would come home after days and days away and start telling dd1 how much he loves her, how she means everything to him - and all this after sleepless nights spent by dd1 who was worried about him not coming home and wondering if he was ok.
I always told her that he just working late and was ok, nothing to worry about but she would take hours to settle - she already has huge sleep issues due to anxiety (common with Aspergers).

The reality was of course that he would never answer his phone or any messages (on one occasion I had to take dd2 (and by default dd1) to A&E in the middle of the night but no response from him).

He would also come home with 'pity me' stories to her, telling her it was my fault that he never came home, poor him working so hard, etc. He lived his life as if the girls did not exist, showing up drunk or sometimes sober a few days later expecting us all to be ready to stand to his attention and telling the girls what a 'b*tch' I was (and far far worse).

Not being able to shield them from this at the time was a living hell. The empty promises to DD and the unbearable homecomings when it suited him.

Dd1 has high functioning Aspergers and really struggles with social interactions. She interprets things at face value and so years of him manipulating her has taken it's toll. She absolutely adores him and craves his attention and affections. She is smart enough to know he is anything but a good father but just repeatedly worries about him and asks for him all the time. It is utterly heartbreaking.

Fwiw, I am wfh since lockdown with no help from him. I've been beside myself with anxiety trying to juggle it all. He refused as his own role is 'far more important than mine'. And in any case, the reality is he doesn't want to put himself out and is happy to plod along seeing them for 2 hours a week.

Since we moved to our new home just before lockdown, he has been visiting for a couple of hours every weekend. This is because he is waiting for his new home purchase to finalise (fwiw left us without any financial settlement in spite of my parents & I contributing over £60K to his previous home) .There is a hold up on the valuation due to the lockdown - otherwise DD1 would be begging to stay at his. In the interim, he has been staying at a female "colleague's" flat (I know this is all BS). DD1 is always keen to see him so this visiting arrangement was for her to have some time with him.

Things have been quite civil (by shabby standards) since the move so I was happy to let DD1 have her dad over since it really makes her so happy. Roll on the bank holiday weekend and he came over at 4pm on Saturday (2 hours later than agreed) and brought along supplies for a bbq. It was by all accounts a pleasant afternoon. For the first time probably ever, we were all having fun with a water fight and a made-up game called 'burrito' where one of us gets wrapped up in the picnic blanket and has to roll out.

After a while, I went inside to load the dishwasher and suddenly heard DD1 shouting at him to stop wrapping her up so tightly. She was clearly in distress. I ran out and shouted at him to stop. He did then but at that point DD was sobbing. While I was comforting her, he came in and told her she was making a huge fuss about nothing and menacingly telling me that I was mollycoddling her and 'enabling' this drama.

While both dds were in the bath, I went into the other room & told him that it was so horrible to minimise, not display empathy at her distress and how he was modelling the antithesis to everything society teaches our daughters about consent .
After settling both dds in bed (he made lots of excuses not to get involved in the bedtime routine), I went into the living room to ensure he was getting ready to leave.

Right on cue, he came into dd1's room and started telling her how she had overreacted etc etc. but that he loves her etc. etc.
Once he left the room, I noticed a familiar change in his demeanour and felt on edge. He started making nasty comments about what a sh*t mother I am, how fat I am and the rant began to grow momentum. I live in a flat and was growing very anxious about the girls having to listen to his increasingly raised voice. I told him to leave. He continued his rant but dramatically slowed down the pace of getting ready to leave. I knew the girls would now be disturbed. DD1 started calling for me. As I went to check on her, he had descended into shouting. By then DD2 was also on the scene. At this point, I was begging him to leave. I got his bag and cycling shoes and left them outside to hurry things along. I was extremely anxious by now and knew the girls would disregard my requests that they return to bed. He started refusing to leave so I went up to him, put my hand on his chest and told him that the girls were getting very upset. My heart was in my mouth. But then it came. He pushed me hard in the chest, so hard I fell back onto the floor. I looked up behind me to protect the girls but by now they were screaming 'mummy'. I quickly got up, desperate to get him out, but this time he told the girls he was calling the police (another ploy he had used in the past) by which point the girls were screaming. My phone was nowhere nearby and I was in a panic. I shouted at him to stop and he once again pushed me, this time even harder and I fell back very close to the girls. In shock, I ran to the door and locked it, then ushered the girls into my bedroom, switching off all the lights on the way. He stood outside for a half an hour banging on the door while the girls & I huddled in dd2's bedroom. He eventually went away. I stayed until they slept and eventually fell asleep on the floor.

He showed up the next day and luckily our (very rubbish guard-) dog alerted me so I was able to rush the girls into dd2's room again. DD1 was pleading with me to let him in. Telling me how sorry she feels for him. How she would love to see him.

Yesterday and today, she was constantly saying how much she missed him and asking about when she could see him again. And separately I can see he is already damaging dd2 and that she too is slowly starting to fall into his manipulative arms.

Please don't be harsh on me - I have already reported this to the police, I am having a smart security system installed tomorrow and I will not hesitate to seek a restraining order. Today, of course, he is finally 'truly sorry' but that it was 'both our fault'. I have made it very clear that if he comes over I will call the police and for the moment I do not think he will.

I am still scared of him. But I am also scared that the police will be won over by his charm. He is extremely manipulative and charismatic (on demand). As you can see from this post, I am not very articulate. I clam up when I'm highly anxious. After all, he managed to convince my own family that I am hugely mentally unstable and that he has been my knight in shining armour.

Yes, early last year I sought help for depression when anti-depressants were not helping and I was then diagnosed with mild bipolar disorder. My psychiatrist strongly believes this was exacerbated and ultimately brought to light by the extremely stressful events on the past years with ex-DP. For instance, there was a forced abortion, the discovery of an affair (and DP fathering a baby) and other incidents. In any case, this is all managed very successfully managed via medication and a healthy lifestyle. But he will always throw out the 'mentally unfit mother' card and has often shouted to the girls that 'your mother is bipolar'.

Please don't be harsh. I know what practical steps I need to take. But can somebody please advise on how I can best support dd1 who absolutely adores her dad in these circumstances in the interim? I don't want her to not have a relationship with her dad per se, but I feel that keeping her away from him is in her best interests. Also, if I continue to withhold contact, especially against her wishes, he will raise the bar and terrorise even more and try to poison her against me. What on earth do I say and how do I explain all this to her?

Thank you for reading this far.

OP posts:
humbadadum · 13/05/2020 02:15

PS. dd1 began to play Roblox before bedtime last night and exclaimed 'daddy is online!'. Why on earth is a 43 year old man playing Roblox to seek out contact with dd1 when he knows I would not permit it after the weekend's incident? He is just constantly manipulating her. She took it as a huge 'dad' gesture that he had come online in the hope of 'finding' her.

OP posts:
Comtesse · 13/05/2020 06:24

My god he sounds awful. Protect yourself, protect your girls. Glad you called the police - don’t back down, he sounds dangerous.

Mary1935 · 13/05/2020 06:32

He is one sick man. Well done for getting him out.
I’d try and get a restraining order and let him go for access through the courts.
You are protecting your children as best you can.
Can you just not let him in?

searchaway · 13/05/2020 06:54

Do not let him in. He’s volatile and it’s not ok. When dd1 asks for him you should be honest. You say “daddy can’t be allowed to come over. Mummy let him in and he behaved badly towards me. Mummy needs to be safe and you need to be safe so at the moment he can’t come”’you then need to get professional advice on how to deal with this

mathanxiety · 13/05/2020 07:19

Do you have a court ordered visitation agreement?
If not, stop visits.
If yes, petition the court for a guardian ad litem to be appointed to represent the children.

Get the restraining order. Don't second guess yourself.
Never, ever invite this man to your home again.

How old is DD1?
Who diagnosed her high functioning aspergers? Go back to that person and ask for help ASAP for DD1. Or a referral to someone else, essentially to debrief her and start to challenge the dynamic her father has set up in their relationship.

He is going to destroy her and her sister emotionally and psychologically if he is not stopped, and I would not put it past this man to sexually abuse the girls too. You are dealing with a malignant narcissist.

She needs to talk to a professional about the relationship with her father and the damage he is trying to do to her relationship with you.

Get the DDs into therapy IMMEDIATELY - play therapy might be appropriate but ask the professional who diagnosed the aspergers for advice wrt DD1.

The children witnessed a horrible scene and need support.

For the future, never be without your phone.

I would advise no more online games for DD1.
Online games that can involve contact with others can be a problem for a young child with your DD's vulnerability to manipulation. She needs a huge amount of help establishing boundaries and understanding other people's motivations and agendas before she can be allowed limited and strictly supervised access to any online interaction with people she doesn't know - she would anyway with a parent like her father but especially given the aspergers she must be trained and properly prepared. Put an end to any online games that allow interaction with other people immediately.

mathanxiety · 13/05/2020 07:21

Sorry, her age is in the thread title.

Please seek help for your daughters. They will be destroyed by this man unless you can stop contact.

category12 · 13/05/2020 07:32

I think look for specialised help for your dds - if you're in touch with any domestic abuse services, maybe they can signpost you to someone appropriate. (If you're not in contact with domestic abuse services, you need to be, don't try to do this alone).

Action for Children offers specialised counselling for children, and no doubt other charities and services do too.

mathanxiety · 13/05/2020 07:33

Women's Aid 0808 2000 247 may be able to offer contact information for therapists or may offer therapy themselves.

Call, leave a message including best time for a call back, they will get back to you.

MzHz · 13/05/2020 07:42

Everything @mathanxiety said is bang on.

You’ve done the best you can, but he’s an abusive man who has not subjected your dd to violence directly by knowingly hurting them in play and by assaulting you.

He has lost the right to be allowed into your home, contact with them and indeed with you.

Do not allow him access to any of you.

You can explain that Daddy hurt mummy, hurt Dd and that it needs to be sorted out properly so that it never happens again. For now that means no visits. No contact on Xbox, phone anything. If he shows up at your door, police. Can you get a flag placed on your address? Repeat as needed. Stay calm, you’re protecting your dds. You’re showing them that certain things are unacceptable. They need to learn this. Especially with a father like theirs.

MzHz · 13/05/2020 07:43

*not subjected= now subjected

Sorry

category12 · 13/05/2020 07:45

(I missed out that the specialised counselling Action for Children offer was for children who've been exposed to/experienced domestic abuse, not just specialised as in for children.) Please pretend like I included this in my previous post Grin

sunnydays78 · 13/05/2020 08:18

Hi I’ve been through a very similar situation op.
The level of manipulation I can really resonate with.
I’m not sure if you’ve been to women’s aid but when I did they had a worker who was for children. It might be better for someone else to be speaking to your girls. That way it’s not dad says this mum says that, they’re hearing if from a professional who will understand the level of control and coercion going on.
I would absolutely apply for a restraining order. I understand you trying to allow him into your home to have contact with the kids. However, your home is your safe place and your girls safe place.
You said your girls have witnessed him abusing you before, yet you are allowing him still to control coming to your house and having a BBQ. He’s pushing the boundaries trying to push his luck, you’re still doing what he wants.
Gets some support and advice. I think he’s a very dangerous man and I’d be very afraid of allowing my children to spend time alone with him. You need to take control and protect your children. Xx

JudyCoolibar · 13/05/2020 08:19

DD1 is old enough for you to sit down with her and say that what her father did when he assaulted you was not all right and in particular he should not have frightened them in the way he did, so he cannot come to your house again. No matter how much she misses him, you can't risk him doing that again because all three of you are entitled to be safe and not terrified of a violent man. I agree both children need to be referred to counselling.

And please contact a solicitor today about getting an injunction. You will probably be entitled to legal aid.

humbadadum · 13/05/2020 16:09

Thank you all for you advice. @sunnydays78 you are absolutely right that I need to take control and stop putting the girls at risk. I don't know if you experienced this too but I am a complete idiot and end up feeling sorry for him after a couple of days. Thank you for pointing me to the various support services above - they are all extremely busy but I'll keep trying.

I really am petrified about the repercussions of reporting this. He is incredibly vengeful and has nothing to lose - no friends or family bonds. He has always been relentless about getting the upper hand - there is nothing he won't do to prove a point and will go to the ends of the earth to get what he wants. For instance last year when I was fully reliant on him financially, as an act of revenge for a time when the girls and I were late coming back from a friends' house, he reported all the Uber transactions on his card (which he had given me) to his bank as fraudulent & had them all refunded to his account. He then threatened to have me reported for fraud. And as a result, my Uber account has been disabled since.

Is it likely he will be arrested? They will surely call him? Even a phone call will send him into a fit of furious rage. This is surely why most domestic violence incidents are unreported.

Since Sunday he is making his usual suicide threats (which I'm totally disregarding). In the past he has counter-reported me to the police, mainly claiming I was unfit to care for the girls and using the bipolar card.

The last time this happened was a few weeks ago (prior to moving) but the police asked him to leave the room so I could have an opportunity chat with them. After explaining to them what was at play, they then asked him to leave. Needless to say the girls were very upset and thought I had done something terrible for the police to be called.

On other occasions, he would keep tormenting me with horrendous verbal abuse and when I cracked and lashed back he would whip out his mobile phone and start videoing me to make me look as if I was the perpetrator. He always threatens to use all these videos as evidence.

He is physically extremely strong and can easily overwhelm me without much effort. He is also very tech savvy (his job is highly technical) and has used wifi router logs to check on my browsing history in the past. Also checking up on me by messaging my friends on some nonsense pretext to check on my whereabouts. Was regularly calling my best friend (to the point of stalking her) with 'concerns' about my mental health and tried to convince my elderly parents that I desperately needed 'help'. All to try and build up a fictional case to take the girls away from me.

I've already spoken to the SEN/Inclusion officer at school at length (prior to lockdown) to discuss my worries about the children and seek support for them. I explained the circumstances at home and wanted their teachers to be aware and support them with worries or trauma / unusual behaviour in a safe environment and to somebody impartial. She referred us to their family service for specialised counselling (play therapy) and they contacted me. Unfortunately, they are unable to provide services until lockdown has been lifted but I have emailed my point of contact again to see if there is anything at all they can offer.

Before lockdown, two close friends who the girls adore offered to gently broach the subject particularly with dd1 and back up my message but that is obviously out of the question now.

I have a solicitor friend who is making enquiries within her professional network for a suitable solicitor. I would not qualify for legal aid as it is means tested.

I'm afraid he will murder us all after reporting him in spite of any injunction.

OP posts:
Wanderlust21 · 13/05/2020 16:15

I'd up and move far away as soon as this lockdown lifts.

But in the mean time, report to the police and fight hard to be protected. Imagine how youd feel if he kidnapped ir badly hurt the kids and you hadn't reported him.

You have to fight as hard as you can by any means to protect them.

His sort only see compromise and kindness as weakness. And weakness is like a red flag to a bull to them. Get as much help as you can from others.

Good luck x

sunnydays78 · 13/05/2020 16:41

You know what you need to do. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’m almost four years down the road and life is good. I never thought I’d get any peace. But I do, I have a full life now and it’s wonderful.
You need to show your girls What it is to be a strong woman.
I have some advice for you. Write down all the things he’s done to you and your kids. Even the things that you don’t feel like you could tell another human (I still have lots that are too sore to share). Then when you feel like ‘maybe he’s changed’ or ‘he’s actually really sorry this time’ or ‘ I feel sorry for him’ get it out and remind yourself. Stops me in my tracks every time women’s aid told me to do this and it’s stopped me from taking him back.
Things will just get worse, that’s something I can promise you. Take control and look after yourself and your girls xx

RandomMess · 13/05/2020 17:03

Just Thanks you need to be brutally honest with the police that you fear he is one of those that will commit murder rather than you be free Sad

You need to knock on every door for professional psychological help for your DDs and you. He is incapable of bringing anything positive to your DDs lives, deep down you know this.

It's only ever about him and what he wants and he will hurt them time and time again to hurt and punish you.

category12 · 13/05/2020 18:00

Speak to the Rights of Women, they might be able to advise on the legal side. rightsofwomen.org.uk/

category12 · 13/05/2020 18:07

You might also consider moving again / going into a refuge and putting in place access through a contact centre. You need to take your fear that he will kill you seriously. He is emotionally abusing the children as well as continuing his abuse of you.

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