How do I go no contact/low contact with my mother when I am addicted to pleasing her?

[VodkaCranberry2]

You can see my other threads on my mother by searching my name. She is a narcissist, only happy when everything is on her terms, incredibly jealous, manipulative, often guilt trips and can’t take responsibility for her actions so tends to blame anyone else. I am the scapegoat, she is not like it with any other siblings. Everyone I have spoken to has told me to go NC/LC with her but I just don’t know how. Every time I try to tell her how she makes me feel she has called me nasty and told me she is nothing like I say and that it’s all me. I was guilt tripped into seeing her during lockdown (my health advisor told me it was okay) on the basis that this ‘whole experience has been ripped away from her’ and that she needs to bone with my son. Last straw was when she turned to my baby (who luckily can’t understand), smiled at him and said: your mother is a twat, isn’t she?’ After seeing her I instantly felt guilty and regretted it and told her we would be back to isolating from now, she has since ignored me. I am worried for my son... I feel like she will poison him and try to turn him against me. But it’s like I am addicted to fighting for her approval and pleasing her and making sure she’s okay and that I haven’t done anything wrong. I’m also feeling guilty on behalf of my son if I was to cut contact because it’s his grandmother. How do I fight this? Should I go low contact; and how do I do it? I’m so stressed and anxious all the time.

OP please think about going NC with your mother. This is not a healthy dynamic and she will drip poison to your son. Protect your child and don't leave him in her care.

@HeyDuggeesCakeBadge How do I do that? I honestly don’t know how without feeling horrendous about it.

Get yourself over to the stately homes threads to talk to people in the same position. Just looking for a link. Really you need counselling but lockdown makes that difficult. Good book is Toxic Parents by Susan something.

Thank you @Butterymuffin I have just downloaded the book on my iPhone.

You have to remember, it's not you, it's her. Nothing you do will ever be enough. The thing you are trying to achieve - a loving relationship with your mother- isn't possible.

When you believe that, it will be easier to go low or no contact.

You will feel guilty because your mother knows exactly what buttons to push to make you feel that way. And she knows because she installed them.

Your son will be infinitely worse off having someone in his life who openly disrespects and insults his mother in front of him, than he will from not having a relationship with her. You are chasing a relationship with your mother that can’t exist, because of the person she is.

I know it feels like that’s because of some flaw of yours right now, because that is how she has conditioned you to feel. It is not your fault. She has created this scapegoat/ golden child dynamic because it serves a need of her’s. It is not something you have done.

I think exploring these issues with a counsellor could be really beneficial. It’s my understanding that some people are continuing to offer services via online platform during lockdown.

I pulled up the drawbridge on my Dad about 15 years ago when I saw him trying to manipulate my son. It was the best thing I ever did. You need to start being proud of yourself at the end of every day you ignore her, build your resilience and become hardened to her. You can, and then you can teach your son not to be a people pleaser and be even prouder.

Another book to explore is Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving. It explores childhood emotional neglect. Very enlightening.

You don't have to tell her, surely?

Just don't contact her. If she calls, don't answer. If she rings the doorbell, don't let her in.

But if you really want to, you could send a text: "you called me a twat and I don't like that. I'm not allowing that to happen again"

And yes to everyone else - giving your son a relationship with this dreadful woman will not be beneficial to him.

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist. You do not have to make a song and dance about lowering all contact levels either; just make yourself over time more and more unavailable to her. If she calls do not answer. If she turns up at your home you don't let her in. Your mother is very much a past master of, "come closer so I can hurt you again".

Do read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and have a read too of the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. You have really been trained by her to serve her and put your own needs last. She really does see you as an extension of her but you are your own person completely separate. You do not need her approval either, not that she would ever give you this in any event.

Many adult children of narcissists fall into the trap of wanting to believe that their parent will somehow behave better when they become grandparents despite their own experiences to the contrary. Stop hoping she will become a nice decent parent and grandparent now, that will not ever happen. It is not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way.

Ask yourself this too - would you tolerate this from a friend, no you would not. Your mother is no different.

If she is too toxic for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your child too. Your mother has not changed in all these years, she is still a narcissist. You also need to protect your most precious resource here i.e your child from your mother.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and narcissists also make for being deplorably bad as grandparents too; you've already seen her speak to your son in a derogatory fashion re you as his mother. You will be in for more of the same going forward if she is at all allowed contact with you and your son. She will indeed use him to get back at you. If the other set of grandparents are nice and importantly too emotionally healthy, concentrate your efforts further on them.

Your narcissistic parent will not be warm and supportive of your parenting. Why would she? Your narcissistic parent has never supported you—unless it served her ends. Children are all too tempting targets for your narcissistic parent. Children, especially young ones, are trusting of grandmas and grandpas. They’ll listen to the lies your parent tells them about you. Lies about how terrible you’ve been to them. Your parent will weave tales about what a horrible child you were and how they gave you nothing but love while sacrificing their own welfare for you. What she will do is turn your child against you.

But that is not all the danger. Children learn by watching and listening to the adults in their lives. Your child will learn from their narcissistic grandparent how to be manipulative, deceitful, and selfish. And that is truly no legacy to leave your child.

If you do want to speak to a therapist I would urge you to find someone who has NO familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. BACP are good and do not charge the earth. Interview such people carefully and at length before choosing any particular one. Such people are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

you have friends who are prone to tell you why you made a mistake leaving the narcissist or updating you on the narcissist's life, tell them you no longer want to talk about the narcissist. If they continue talking about the narcissist, block them. Your mental well-being depends on getting as far away from the narcissist as possible—and that includes not hearing updates or having someone try to persuade you to return. Narcissists tend to send a mutual friend aka flying monkey to try to get you to come back to the relationship. Remember, these "friends" don't know the narcissist like you do. They are not interested in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored.

You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

@VodkaCranberry2 you're afraid of how you're going to feel about stopping seeing her.

So the worst thing that could happen if you go NC is you'll feel crap. Is that correct?

If so, do you think you could survive those feelings?

I’m so sorry to read your post. It’s horrible. You’ve had great advice above.
So let me tell you that 2.5 years ago I was in exactly the same place as you, with my dad. A lifetime of emotional abuse, witnessing his domestic abuse against my mother and his subsequent partner yet when he was (manipulatively) nice I was desperate for the relationship to be a decent father/daughter one. Could never have imagined a time when I went NC but I did it! I won’t lie, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. He had pushed me to a breakdown and I was barely functioning, got signed off my doctor, had to explain all to my workplace who were great and got me 6 sessions of workplace counselling where I had EMDR for trauma (he had made me witness him taking an overdose when I was 17 after years of domestic abuse against my mum and my depression because of the abuse was all mixed up in guilt and blaming myself). After the 6 sessions ended I paid for my own therapy which was invaluable.

Shit things still happen, he’s 76 and now and again a carer or neighbour will phone me or turn up on my doorstep to guilt me (I am an only child).. ive welcomed lockdown in some ways because I am no longer expecting flying monkeys on my doorstep! But let me tell you, going NC has been the best thing I’ve done in terms of my people pleasing. I’ve learned boundaries, I’ve improved my self esteem, I’ve addressed my own shame. I’ve cut out other toxic people. I’m a better parent as I’m not wimping out on standing up for my kids due to people pleasing. My life has changed. The advice on mumsnet has helped me too, knowing I’m not alone in dealing with this. I won’t lie, I got worse before I got better but every day NC has been a step closer to sanity.

Are you able to shut her down every time she says something like that, which, by the way, is outrageous! If she says anything that you remotely don’t like, leave. Take the power back, only go to her house then just leave if she’s being horrible. You owe her nothing, particularly when she makes such horrific comments.