My DM and DF have an alcohol problem.

[lockdowngandt]

NC as it has nothing to do with my usual content on here. Apologies for the length I want to give the full story and hopefully get some advice.

DM and DF are late 40s so fairly young, they had us quite young. I'm late 20s with DCs/DP/house of my own and my DBro is a few years younger than me and lives with them.

I have a tendency to block out bad things and completely forget them, sometimes they resurface randomly years later so it's taken me some time to process and fully accept this. They have always liked a night out/drink since I can remember but they worked hard and long hours and I always saw it as letting off steam on the odd day off/weekend.
My DF has struggled with alcohol for quite a long time now but it has slowly crept up to the point he had a well paid/high ranking job and there were half or completely empty beer cans/alcohol bottles found in nooks and crannies around his place of work (large industrial place) his job was on the line but the company went under before anything was done about it (I only know because I found out from old friend who worked there).

They hide it well and my DM has a tendency to cover for DF and hates being judged/seen as having issues/inferior and I live a bit of a distance away so they always know when I'm coming over and when I'm over everything is nice and dandy. But my DBro tells a different story, he's completely fed up of them, he has told me my DF was going 3/4 days at a time without being sober, he's self employed now so gets away with it better than he would do in a FT job. My DM would also drink and they would often have screaming (well DM screaming) rows in the house.
I don't exactly know the details of how severe it all is at the moment as my DBro has said he's fed up of talking about it and only gives me very basic info when we do speak. But he has told me they had a week of being better and they're not great again. He's not sure exactly about my DM as he doesn't talk to them much really and keeps to his room but he said my DF has been drinking again almost daily.

My DF has a tendency to call people on the phone (think distant family members and my DGF and myself) and regale them with his plans for stuff / general talking that doesn't make too much sense and it's hard to understand what the point of it is - however he doesn't slur his words or mispronounce anything so sometimes unless you know him very well you can't tell he's drunk.
My DGPs live in a different country and recently come to their attention just how bad it all is and they've had a talk with them which my DPs brushed off saying its all old news and it's not like that now.

My DGM calls my DBro and sometimes asks about the drinking and my DM found out and has asked DBro to lie about it which he said he won't so she's fallen out with him.

I'm not teetotal myself but I never really have more than a couple of drinks (g&t or glass of wine in the evening) maybe once a month if that unless it's a special night out (think childless birthday night away or something) which only happens a couple of times a year as I have a bit of an aversion to it usually and would hate for my DCs to ever see me really drunk like I've seen my DPs before.

I don't talk about it with them, I almost don't have the energy whenever I think about it. But I'm worried about my DBro, he's really resentful of them but he can't afford to live on his own at the moment due to a few factors and at the moment he's basically holed up in his room all everyday gaming/staying up until silly hours and I worry about his general wellbeing as he's always in a funk.
I don't really know what talking with them would bring as I can imagine denial, trivialising it and them especially my DM taking great offence.
A very selfish part of me also feels like it's not my responsibility to try and help them sort it out.

Another issue is that they are not originally from the uk and their language is just about passable but I can imagine they wouldn't benefit from any type of help or counselling unless it was in their native language which I could potentially find for them but I'm sure then they'd be worried about it being someone they know / someone finding out about it which they'd never allow.

I have this feeling deep down that it's all going to have to come to a head sooner or later they want to have my DCs overnight which I wouldn't allow and always skirt around the suggestion, they would again take huge offence at the reasons for it and even though I know they wouldn't drink around them or put them in danger especially since they know what that would mean going forward my partner would also point blank refuse to agree to it which I'm completely fine with.

I'm aware that I suffer with a bit of FOG and generally hate rocking the boat as I have no energy to deal with a fallout/drama but I have done stonewalling before.

At the moment the whole issues is on my mind quite a lot and I'm not sure if I should try to do something about it even if it's just for the sake of my DBro or leave them to get on with it until it all blows up in some sort of row or big fallout.

Any type of advice would be really appreciated as I feel quite overwhelmed with it all.

I don't really have advice or experience but I hate to see threads like this hanging. My gut feeling is that you need to start to tackle this a bit more head on. Not so much for their benefit, the general advice seems to be that alcoholics can only save themselves, but for your brother and ultimately your children. Keeping it as a guilty secret won't be sustainable. I would start by just simply stating that you know that alcohol is a problem in the household.

Thanks @pog100 I thought I wouldn't get any replies.

It's not really a secret, my DP knows, DBro obviously knows, my DGPs know and I know my parents know that I / we know there's an issue I just don't bring it up with them or they with me. I think my DM is either in a bit of denial or just doesn't want anyone butting in and knowing their business.

My DM tries to be very vigilant and hides it well. Whenever I'm around she's always sober and is very "proper" with the way she deals with my DCs now as in the past they tried to impose their own rules/do things their way and there was an issue (not alcohol related) and we now don't leave the DCs alone with them. She now makes sure to check with me before she fills them full of sweets before lunch for example and makes sure to follow my lead rather than try to take over with things.
I know in their heads they're resentful about not having DCs overnight or being asked to babysit.

My DF slips up more and has sometimes been tipsy when I visited, my DM keeps very tight lipped about it but then I know she has a go at him when I leave. He also hides from her when he's making the phone calls to me/DGF/distant family members.

I think they both have quite a few personal perhaps MH issues (but they are not the types to entertain getting help), DM I think could probably take or leave the drink but she's very woe is me and does it as a self destructive thing - DBro said he overheard the GP telling my DM to cut alcohol out completely after some recent tests she's had but she didn't take it onboard, he told me she has horrible hangovers probably due to the fact she shouldn't drink but when I spoke to DM about it she said the doctor just told her if she drinks to cut down a bit whilst they way for her second lot of results. They rarely admit fault and generally blame their issues on outside factors.

I think you should be concentrating on the only person you can actually help: your brother. He's mid--twenties, living in a very dysfunctional housework and if he's not careful he'll be stuck there in a permanent funk!

What stopping him being able to afford to move out? Does he work? If he doesn't then any job would be better than being trapped at home all day. Could he get a second job if he does? Is he willing to house share or is he unrealistically trying to get his own place or saving for a mortgage? Can you, or other family lend him deposit on a houseshare?

Unfortunately you can’t help alcoholics until they decide to stop drinking.
Support your brother. And be aware that his life may be very affected. My dgf was an alcoholic and although he died when I was 2 my life was affected because of my dm’s behaviour. Adult child of an alcoholic parent is a condition and when I checked my dm fits most of the signs.
She’s 84 now and will never get help but for your brother counselling may be an option.

He's early 20s. And he is my main concern.

He currently works with/for my DF (well not at the moment with everything going on) but said he is looking for something else, he wants to move out but we've had the conversation multiple times and he absolutely refuses to consider a house share as he said he wants some peace and quiet in his own space for once.
He said he is looking for a better paid job than he has with my DF but he has no formal qualifications so this could take an unspecified amount of time, a couple of his friends have landed well paid jobs (over min wage) that didn't need any qualifications so he's hoping to maybe get some help from them. I suggested to him to maybe try and do a short course of some sort - he had a forklift licence in his last job but when he left he had to forego it as it was in his contract but he could easily pass it again and I know the pay is above the nat minimum wage and goes up. He doesn't want to and I can't force him, he's an adult.

His attitude stinks sometimes but I can imagine I wouldn't have the best attitude in his current situation.
Even if we could scrape together enough for a deposit for him he couldn't feasibly afford to run a house on his own at the moment - also in part because of my parents.
Neither me or my DGPs are be in a position to subsidise him even though we probably would if we could for a few months to help him get started.

It's all a mess.

You need to tell him, in the kindest way, to 1) be realistic. 2) stop living on blind optimism 3) pull his finger out. Sometimes being supportive means laying out the facts, harsh as that sounds.

We'd all love to afford our own place and have a good job that doesn't need any qualifications, but it just doesn't happen like magic. He needs to be proactive. Online courses for his missing qualifications - some are free. Look into evening classes for when this is over. Book that forklift test. Send out his cv. Get career advice - job centres hsve experts and can help with courses like interview skills and cvs etc. Making an actual plan. He's stuck in dysfunctional mud and in wallowing rather than trying to pull himself out. Understandably, but he may need a push from you to get him started.

I'd also suggest getting him to al-anon for support - I believe they have online meetings. Is there a possibility he's depressed given the circumstances? Would he speak to a gp?

I wish I could @Thingsdogetbetter but he's the type of character where the more you push the more he digs his heels in, completely shuts you out and refuses to discuss. It needs to come from him.

@Coffeecak3 just read up about the traits of Adults with alcoholic parents and he does fit some of it especially a part about finding dysfunctional relationships. Last year he started dating a girl which I personally thought was completely not his type but he still claims she is. It was all a car crash and lots of drama, they were on and off, he spent a lot of ££ on gifts/nights out and even paid for them to go away as she didn't have the money, she was very dysfunctional and he completely fed into the drama. It all ended and he was depressed and in a self destructive cycle for weeks. He kept saying how he finally found a girl and he really liked her but it all goes wrong for him/ he's not good enough and she was the only reason he was happy.

Luckily he's doing much better now but I did tell him he needs to be happy with himself first and he can't put it all on someone else as his reason to be happy as that's unhealthy.

If you want my honest opinion, I think you need to concentrate on what you can deal with, which is your own family. You can make sure your children never stay over with your DP as this is your choice to make. The rest you need to walk away from. Your DP can drink if they want and your DB is old enough to decide to either stay or leave. It seems you are spending a lot of emotional energy on things which you cannot change. I know this sounds harsh but I think it is the place you need to try and get to.

Thanks @Apolloanddaphne I actually spend very little emotional energy on it. I sometimes even feel guilty because day to day I have a lovely life, wonderful DCs and a great DP. We are very lucky to live in a nice area and don't have many financial worries (saying that we're not loaded or particularly well off hence can't help my brother) which is something I always hoped for but never thought I'd achieve.

It's just been on my mind a bit more recently, we have our wedding coming up in a couple of years and I've had a bit more time to reflect on things during the lockdown and for some reason it's made me wonder if I should try and actually do something about it all.

Not sure what the point of the post is tbh?

Your brother needs to get his life together and move out. If he doesn’t want to do this, you can’t force him, just be there for him when he is ready to make that step.

You can’t do anything about your parents. If they want the kids overnight just tell them no as their household is unsuitable, the end.

@HoppingPavlova I'm hoping for advice, maybe someone has been in a similar situation, or has a bit of general experience/ different perspective. I sometimes can't see the wood for the trees and get myself in a muddle where some people would just breeze through an issue.

They're also my parents and brother and I love and care for them all. I have hugely distanced myself from my parents over the years as I realise the dynamic was a big toxic especially between me and DM so I'm not trying to chase after them and appease them anymore.
However it's all been on my mind as it has been going on for a long time and I have said nothing about it.

Yes I agree with others, you've written a long post about how poorly behaved your parents are but the problem is that your brother needs to pull his finger out, get another job, lower his expectations. If he left, your parents would probably live quite happily. I mean if all they're doing when they're drink is making long phone calls about their ideas whilst not actually sounding drunk, or doesn't sound much of a problem. If they damage their own health, that's their business really isn't it? Your brother is the problem, not ready to grow up and stand on his own too feet so he's complaining to other family members about his parents.

But who are you going to say something to? Your brother. Just tell him you feel it’s in his best interest to move out and you’ll support him when he’s ready to do so. No point saying anything to your parents, what would this achieve? This is the life they are choosing. No point gossiping to others about them, how will this help? The only thing you need to say is that they can’t have the kids overnight/unsupervised if they ask, just tell them their household is unsuitable, no need for high drama. Up to you whether you maintain contact and how much. Yes, I have had a relative that was an alcoholic but more on the non-functioning side as opposed to your parents who seem pretty functional. It’s their life choice.

I am aware my DBro isn't heloping his own case at the moment and I am talking to my him regularly and trying to get him to take more active steps but I think it must be hard sometimes with the environment he's in, he's always very negative.

But he is not gossiping or complaining about my DPs to everyone around, my DGPs know it's worse than just "DF liking a drink" because an aunt rang them asking if everything was OK because she was getting what sounded like drunk calls from my DF fairly regularly, he stayed with them when he went back to his home country to sort some stuff out a few months ago and afterwards my DGM found an empty bottle of homemade strong alcohol/vodka out of my DGFs stash (he likes to make it as a hobby because he has lots of his own fruit trees) in a cupboard of the room my DF stayed in. They asked my DBro who admitted the truth but he will only talk about it when asked he never ever brings it up himself.

And I know my DF would drink drive sometimes, he once turned up and my DBros place of work inebriated and generally has a knack of trying to sort out everyone else problems (sometimes they're perceived in his head) hence the phone calls and giving people unsolicited advice and generally talking a lot about something without a point being made at the end.
My DM just gets drunk and spills all her lives woes into my DF who then rakes his head to try and make her happy.

Sorry I know this is turning into me just spilling everything. I don't really have anyone to talk to about it IRL as 1. It's embarrassing and 2. I don't want to put this on anyone.

You say that you don’t have anyone to talk to. You have the option of speaking to one of many support groups that are available for the families and friends of alcoholics, such as Al Anon. They will have plenty of resources on their website and a telephone helpline, as meetings are not happening due to the current lockdown. It’s much easier to share with somebody who understands and is not a family member or friend.

Could your brother move in with you, in a spare bedroom? Don’t put any other pressure on him if he does move in, just watch and see if a more structured, content home life helps him find opportunities. Our nephew lives with us, and will do for the foreseeable future, and he’s currently bugging me about reviewing his business plan. This is quite the turnaround, hopefully your brother could benefit from just a change fo environment too. It might also push your mum into sorting things out.

Please do not feel embarrassed, what they do and how they choose to live is absolutely no reflection on you as a person.

You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped and that includes your brother here. With him you cannot and must not give away any more of yourself here than you can afford to lose.

Help your own self instead and deal with your own sense of fear, obligation and guilt here through counselling. It would be a far better use of your time. You are also very much an adult child of an alcoholic.

Do contact Al-anon here in this respect; they can and will help you. serene12's last sentence here above is pretty much on the money; family and friends can be overinvested for their own reasons.

Your brother should certainly consider contacting Al-anon also. He is as much caught up in their alcoholism as his parents are. Its not called the "family disease" for nothing, you are also profoundly affected by your family of origin's alcoholism.

There are no guarantees when it comes to alcoholism. Your parents could go onto lose absolutely everything and everyone around them and still choose to drink afterwards.

Thanks for the suggestion I haven't considered contacting AI for myself.

We don't have a spare room unfortunately otherwise we would've offered my DBro the help of we could, we did tell him he could come and crash on the sofa if he ever needed to be we live a bit of a distance with not so great transport links and he doesn't own a car at the moment so I can imagine he'd rather just stay within the four walls of his room with his PC/big bed and so on.

He has told me he wants out, they have been talking about moving for a few years now and he has offered to take over their rental as they have a very good price and are in a nice spot plus have done quite a bit to the house so it's v nice.
He told them a few days ago to let him know ASAP because if they won't be going ahead with the move he's moving out. He says it will mean a v small perhaps studio flat and barely scraping by but he'd rather do that than stay living with them.

So I've spoken to Al - anon and I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed. I think they had a large number of incoming calls because the lady seemed to try and hurry me along and interrupted me a few times then gave me a number and address for a local group/member.
She was lovely mind you and I guess I don't know myself what I expected from the call, just someone to talk to I suppose.

I definitely won't be calling the local group or going to any meetings as I wanted to remain anonymous and I know of someone from my area who attends and wouldn't want to bump into them so I guess this is it for now.

I don't want to talk to my partner about it as that would end up being all we talk about and even though he knows I find it all embarrassing and don't like to talk about it.

Glad to hear that you contacted Al Anon. That is standard practice for whoever is on the helpline, to signpost you to your local group.
12 step groups including Al Anon are anonymous, they take anonymity very seriously. All members are known by their christian names, members do not share their surnames, job, address etc., this so that members can be honest with their feelings and just be themselves. You’re also welcome to attend meetings out with your local area. Addiction thrives on embarrassment and shame

I don't think this is your problem to fix. They are adults. You are not responsible for them. I'd tell you DBro that you will be there when he needs you, when he decides to take steps to change his situation, but that you will wait for him to seek your support as and when he wants it. That you respect he's an adult and capable of making his own decisions.

Then I'd step back and focus on your own children and DH and not feel guilty about doing so. There is absolutely nothing you can do, nor is it your job or duty or obligation to "fix" the situation. Good luck.

Thanks @serene12 I think I was just hoping to talk someone anonymously without having to show my face really, I don't have the time to go to groups especially if I might potentially bump into someone I know as I mentioned in my update.

@HMSSophie thanks to you too. I will reiterate it to my DBro again. I know he's an adult but I also remember my whole outlook and lack of direction when I lived under my parents roof and it took me years and my lovely optimistic goofball DP to change my mindset so I really feel for him.

I thin