How do I get him to consider he has aspergers?

[Birdybirdie]

It is likely that DH has aspergers and/or ADHD and it is the cause of many issues within our relationship and family life.
I have brought this up with him, but he is completely offended whenever I mention it, or laughs at me as if I'm crazy.
One of his defences is always "you are the only one who thinks I have it,so it's you with the problem."
Only this isn't true. I have not told him this.
However, a professional I work with told me she suspected he had it on meeting him; my own mother thinks he has it, but most poignantly, a mutual friend I have never told my concerns to randomly blurted out one day "has it ever occured to you that he has aspergers?" She was friends with him before she was friends with me.
This offered me a great deal of relief after suspecting aspergers for many years. However, getting DH to take my concerns seriously is impossible and I am walking a fine line between speaking to him honestly about this and completely upsetting and insulting him by bringing it up.
He also turns the tables on me a lot, listing my own problems and convinces himself that I am more autistic than he is. I probably have a few traits, but know my issues boil down to anxiety and a high sensitivity to noise that I've had since being brought up by shouty alcoholics. I also struggle to control my emotions. But I don't have aspergers or autism.
I have done online tests with him which he says are "nonsense." I have also spoken to his sister about the probability of him having it and she was also completely offended that I would say such a thing. I know his father thinks he's a bit different and I question if he knows, deep down but the whole family are a little delusional anyway.
I know eventually, I will probably have to leave him, but we would still have 2 DCs who will require his love and parenting. I wish he would consider aspergers a possibility, but it's like knocking at a brick wall.
Any ideas?

I think that if people become aware of their own challenges then they can work to change them; so I don’t think it’s right to say he won’t change. But I do think that a diagnosis is nothing without the will and commitment to understand the implications and the OP sounds like she is pushing water uphill.

The label of autism won’t change anything
It won’t change his behaviour,nor will there be any help
It’s hard enough getting support for children with autism ,never mind adults
The waiting time is a couple of years ,where I am ,for adult diagnosis,and then what after?
He’s managed this far in life and coped well.
I think your using it as a stick to beat him with ,I’d not want the diagnosis either if I was yr dh

The label of autism won’t change anything
It won’t change his behaviour,nor will there be any help

but if he became aware that he doesn't always see the world in the same way as others, (and there is a big IF in there, as he doesn't seem to want to) but if he did, then he can learn to change his behaviour.

That is how you teach kids with autism. You teach them step by step the things that other people learn to do instinctively.
for example, asking them what's wrong, how to keep asking until you work it out, and then what to do about what is wrong.

That is a set of skills he can easily learn. The last part - what to do - is the hardest, but the rest isn't so hard.

rats is deleted a bit in the middle it should say:

so, for example, he knows that when kid is crying he should give a hug, that is learnt behaviour, crying kid = hug, but he hasn't learnt that he needs to work out what is wrong, especially as kids get older.

He can just as easily learn what else to do: asking them what's wrong, how to keep asking until you work it out, and then what to do about what is wrong.

I think most men I know are on the spectrum somewhere.

But I wouldn’t want someone looking after a child if they couldnt manage to see to their welfare properly.

Why are you staying? Apart from the present crises of course. Should you not be putting your own and dc’s welfare first? The guy has no intention of changing. He thinks he’s fine. Sod that. Time to go. And consider very carefully if unsupervised contact is appropriate going forward if he refuses to become a better parent.

God, poor guy! Sounds like a typical man, clueless and unaware of what's he doing rather than someone with autism

I don’t know any typical guys who would refuse to ring an ambulance or treat their bodies like dustbins...

However, there’s no telling. It’s very personal & people need to come to all of these conclusions themselves.

You sound v co-dependent OP - all about “fixing” and changing others behaviours.

That would fit with being raised by alcoholics. The main thrust is although your intentions are v good - you are over responsible, have an issue with boundaries and use controlling behaviours to try to fix/change others.

Have a read of Co-Dependent No More by Melanie Beattie? It changed my life - it was frustrating and exhausting trying to fix everything and everyone. It was v freeing to realise I didn’t have to and actually my efforts compounded everything as the people you try to fix always become resistant to you.

Once you step away, lay off, stop pestering - you give them some space to see their own issues (rather than them always be fighting with you) - and they can reflect, change and grow in their own way - or not.

You can only ever change yourself and your responses to others. However when YOU drop the rope the dynamic changes - at worst you are relieved of your pointless efforts, at best they shift gear.

Sounds like you have done a lot of work on yourself - keep going. Are you only seeing these issues now - were they not their before you had DCs with him?

If you believe he hasn’t autistic traits then research what adaptations would be a helpful to him and try them out in your interactions with him to see if it makes any difference.

Good luck.

I suspect most people don't want to work on themselves. You may think you want to,, but I think you're picking the things you decide you want to change. Which is entirely normal, why would your husband therefore work on anything he clearly doesn't see as a problem? He sounds like a guy who lives completely in the present moment. A label doesn't change reality. Leave him if you're done with the marriage, and by all means raise your concerns re his ability to care for the kids with officials, who will make up their own mind. I'm afraid it reads more as if you've fallen out of love with who he is.

I know people have pointed out how it's Autism Spectrum Disorder and Asperger's Syndrome is outdated now but I think OP may have used Asperger's as it gives people a very quick idea of the mildness of the condition, as compared to someone with moderate to severe autism.

I know a good few people on the autism spectrum and they're all very different and have very different attitudes towards ASD. One told me that he knows he has it but doesn't see how a diagnosis would help (I knew him 10 years before he said that to me). It's a sensitive issue for someone who may not have come to terms with it themselves. Also, it may not be ASD in your DH's case, OP...

It might be best to focus on how you feel OP and then focus on your marriage once you've figured out your own head. I second the recommendation of Codependent No More. It changed my life. It'd be great if you could salvage the marriage. I'm going through a separation and it's no fun!

I think OP may have used Asperger's as it gives people a very quick idea of the mildness of the condition, as compared to someone with moderate to severe autism.

And this is one of the reasons the term is outdated. ‘Aspergers’ is not ‘mild autism’. Aspergers used to be diagnosed if a language delay was not present, that is the only difference.

@Gutterton that book sounds good, makes a lot of sense.

@PeachesAndPops

The word ‘mild’ and ‘milder’ is certainly used a lot here to describe the formerly described Asperger’s Syndrome:

www.autism-society.org/what-is/aspergers-syndrome/

What does the diagnosis actually do?

Some people, once they get a diagnosis, accept it, accept that they do things differently and act in a way that doesn't satisfy NT peoples' needs, and most of all childrens' needs, and then actually set about learning how to respond more appropriately.

It might never come from instinct or even the heart, but some people with autism who get diagnosed can really benefit from it. If they want to.

I'm amazed so many people here don't even want to entertain the idea. Why not?

You're putting an unnecessary extra hurdle in the way, trying to get him to both admit he has ASD and to change his behaviour.

Instead, you could skip straight to trying to get him to change his behaviour. IDK how much luck you'll have there. If you don't have confidence in his ability to look after the kids you could try going through the courts/CAFCASS - I know it's not easy though.

Best wishes. xxxxx

I agree with whoever said you were codependent. Keep the focus on you and how you will feel and deal with your own emotions if you have to leave him because his behaviour is unacceptable to you.

And I have a LOT of experience in this area and have been where you are now. It's a long hard road to co-parent with someone like this but it's easier than living with them and trying (in vain) to fix them.

@Gutterton makes some great observations. I can understand you trying to understand his behaviours; is it perhaps your coping mechanism for working out how you can do-parent with him?

I was like you when I was separating from my ex who had - by observation/comments by two people I know who are clinically trained - traits of narcissistic personality disorder. This informal description (I won’t call it a diagnosis) equipped me better to deal with him. Is this what you are getting at?

@Nogoodwithgoodbyes Yes, because Aspergers was thought of as ‘mild autism’ but that is not a helpful way of describing it, and one reason why many people were pleased the diagnosis was done away with. A diagnosis of Aspergers does not equal ‘mild autism’.

I'm going to disagree with most of you here. I'm 35 and was recently diagnosed with autism. I've had to rethink about events my life and see it from a new perspective. It's helped me understand my behaviour. It's taught me a lot about myself and, although it won't change my traits, it has enabled me to understand myself more and therefore learn new coping mechanisms and boundaries.

OP, a diagnosis may or may not help, nobody can tell you that. You have to accept he may never be willing to be diagnosed and, as frustrating as it is, you'll just have to work with what's in front of you.

@PeachesAndPops

‘’ Virtually everyone with a prior Asperger syndrome diagnosis qualifies for a Level 1 diagnosis, meaning “in need of a relatively low level of support.” Meanwhile, individuals presenting for the first time with relatively mild symptoms of autism will receive a first-time diagnosis of Level 1 Autism Spectrum Disorder.’’

There is no such thing as 'mild autism' which also used to be termed 'high functioning autism'. Both terms suggest wrongly that those diagnosed in that way have no difficulties in daily living.
Yet in order to be diagnosed with autism at all in the UK, "a person will usually be assessed as having had persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction and restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests (this includes sensory behaviour), since early childhood, to the extent that these 'limit and impair everyday functioning'."
Source www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/adults.aspx"

What part of any traits that "limit and impair everyday functioning" could ever be described as 'mild'?

@Nogoodwithgoodbyes are these levels you refer to used in the UK, because the site you quoted from is US based.

Try reading this to understand why the term 'mild autism' is rubbish.
neuroclastic.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/

"People who can speak aloud and have reasonable control over their motor processing are often called “high-functioning,” and yet these autistics often struggle with employment, relationships, and executive function.
My doctor recently referred to my autism is “mild.” I gently pointed to my psychologist’s report which stated that my executive dysfunction as being greater than 99th percentile.
“That means I am less functional than 99% of people. Does that seem mild to you?” I asked her."
But, you see, I can speak, and I can look people in the eyes, so they see my autism as “mild.” My autism affects those around me mildly but my autism does affect me severely."

I'm surprised at the shaming attitude to having autism - I thought people were more accepting.

I don't think you will be able to persuade him to have a test.

It does sound a bit as though you are analysing the situations in your relationship in your own mind when perhaps you could be discussing them. In a quiet space with no interruptions.
Perhaps read up on or speak to someone about his ways and how to change them. Try counselling for yourself where you get an unbiased view rather than family or friends.
If he is autistic there is a possibility your children could be too.

You can see your childhood affected your adult attitude and behaviour, what was his like. What are his parents like? They are likely to have the same traits if it is autism.

My family have a lot of autistic traits and my children have been assessed for high functioning ASD. They don’t have this but their infant reflexes have not gone dormant (worth googling this).
However, I am with others - I think you are looking for a label that will help solve your problems in your relationship. What we have done in our family is get counselling and therapy on social skills and autistic behaviours that affect relationships such as seeing shades of grey rather than seeing things as black and white.
He does not need a label of ASD or not - my suggestion is you instead ask him to go to marriage counselling with you.

The ASC/Aspergers thing is a complete red herring.

He is someone who has difficulties which can impact negatively on the children, yet is unwilling to change acknowledge this let alone make changes.

It's great that you've had therapy and have benefited from it, but you can't force him or even expect him to do the same. All you can do is decide for your whether to accept him as he is or not.

My team are involved in the autism diagnostic services btw, the waiting list was around 2 years (pre covid so longer now) and there is zero post-dx support. So even if he gets a referral for an assessment and gets a dx, it will change fuck all day to day.

@BlankTimes
Fair enough. Thanks. I will read that.

Whether we like it or not, ‘mild’ will still be used and even people with the former diagnosis of Asperger’s (I know a friend who has said this repeatedly) will continue to use the term ‘Asperger’s’ as they identify with it. Someone upthread wrote that it is now HFA, not Asperger’s, again it can be personal and semantical. I posted a link to a UK site and a quotation from a US site both using ‘mild’ and ‘milder.’ I’m not trying to offend but mild-moderate-severe will most likely continue to be used by people. The same friend who likes to retain the term ‘Asperger’s’ often describes it to others as mild autism because she sees it as mild compared to people who were much more affected by autism than she is, who she has met over the years. I wouldn’t have written that only that I’ve heard her saying it for many years and she’s quite clear on that. I guess it’s true that they say ‘if you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism.’ There’s a lot of room for personal difference, that’s for sure. Peace!