Husband makes no effort with my family and seems jealous of their time with our children

[user1484612103]

My husband is in most part, a nice guy, loyal, works hard, a great dad to our two children etc. We have fun as a family and the majority of time we are happy.

BUT....he has never really tried to ingratiate himself into my family (I’m very close to my mum and two sisters), and he acts like it’s such a chore to see them. He’s never understood why I want to see them relatively regularly (mum about twice a month, my sisters maybe once a month), or that I would go to my mum for support, advice etc when needed (sometimes you just need your mum?)

He has a mother (and father to a certain degree) who can’t seem to let him go and worship the ground he walks on. He is near to 40 and if they could, would fund his whole life. His mother, I believe is very manipulative and has made comments in the past about me being close to my mum. I think she feels threatened and my husband realises this, but doesn’t want to upset her. So much so, it’s almost like tit for tat, if I FaceTime my mum with the children, he then FaceTimes his mum. There’s a constant battle between us about who looks after the children if we go out for dinner (my mum is very relaxed and never pushes to do anything with the children, whereas his mother is constantly trying to push us to go out or away so she can have the children all to herself). I have no problem with his parents babysitting etc but I do have a problem with constantly giving them what they want in order to make them feel needed and special (when we got engaged his mother started going on how he was going to forget her, she was no longer going to be his next of kin etc). When I had my first baby, she literally pushed me away from the pram, so she could push her. Both my husband and FIL witnessed it, looked awkward but ignored it...don’t want to upset mum as she cries and plays victim at the drop of a hat...Odd.

My husband, I feel, distances himself from my family/mum because he doesn’t want to upset his mother who just gets so jealous. I always feel I can’t naturally say I’m going to see my mum, or my mums coming to stay, because he makes it quite hard or insinuates “does she really need to stay?” It’s awful..we have a great time together but our arguments always link back to family, especially his mother’s behaviour (which he can’t see) and his behaviour towards my mother.

He also himself seems to get jealous about my children spending time with my family, which I find odd. If I go to see my family (I’m a SAHM and tend to go on a week day), I’m more or less permitted one night only (they’re 2 hours away) because he misses his children too much and I get these over emotional messages when I am staying for one night that he misses his children and family and is feeling down. It’s one night!! But in the same breath, he also doesn’t like us going to see them on the weekends as he believes that’s his time, so I don’t ever feel I can comfortably see my family. We do however see his family on a weekend, reasoned because he’s at work during the week and doesn’t get to see them, fair enough ish I guess.

I guess I just struggle, I get that many people have jealous MILs which affects their relationship with their husband, and I know other people who struggle with that, but I don’t ever come across people whose husband also seems so uninterested in their wife’s family, who get jealous when their children see their wife’s family, or are quite possessive over their children? I do think it’s because he knows his mum would have a breakdown at any word of my mum doing things with the children, but I’ve just never come across this before and have no one who really understands.

Long post, so apologies!!

user

If DH wants to see his parents he could - and infact should - go on his own. If these now grown men can and have been harmed so readily then you can imagine the emotional harm such people could cause to your children. Your children need emotionally healthy role models; not those like his mother who use manipulation tactics 101 to get their own way.

Your H would rather throw you people under the bus than ever want to upset his mother because fear, wrath and damnation would rain down on him if she was upset (he has been that conditioned) and there would be hell to pay. That is what he has been led to believe here by her and for that matter his dad who has enabled his wife all too readily here.

blackcat86 just after our first child was born, it was awful. His mum was just in over drive, telling us she couldn’t wait to “take the baby off us” and had all her walks planned. She physically pushed me off the buggy when I went to push it so she could push my daughter and refused to let anyone else push for the next hours walk. My husband and fil just let it happen, screw my feelings as a new mother!! There have been many other things since and then just insane jealousy over my mums involvement (who is so relaxed and just lets us get on with things). There was big drama just before our second child came along because she kept saying I was going to struggle with two, when she was told by my husband to stop, she went mad, he felt guilty he upset her and I became the instigator. Relentless.

I think I will suggest counselling as although at the moment things are better, something else will arise and I already carry a lot of resentment from the past.

Love to you, as I know how rubbish it can be!!

Narc mother - probably led him to developing poor sense of self. But red flags galore for very subtly done controlling behaviour. Get Lundy Bancroft and look up the abuser profiles that are mr sensitive and the victim one. I woke up 20 years in, I am afraid.

It's really hard and therenare regular backsides where I have to remind DH that their behaviour isnt normal. It's also a case of reminding him that a normal level of contact is completely appropriate and they do not need to be enmeshed in our lives. MIL stills go on about only seeing DSS in the bath twice? Not sure why that matters and it would have been 15yrs ago! FIL enables the behaviour which I'm sure is the same in your situation to so I have apportioned some blame back to DH and FIL who need to take responsibility. It's not for everyone to appease MIL at all costs including DC. It's also important DH deals with any fallout - PIL recently took DD out and brought her back later than asked because its MILs bday soon? (Again not sure what baring that had on anything) so I made sure DH did the phoning to establish where they were and dealt with the overtired, hungry toddler who came back. Dont initiate any contact with them at all. If DH wants to sort it then he can.

Things are better over time, but more because he has seen how friends of ours seem to have normal situations with parents, ie the wife sees her mum a lot with the children, the husbands parents babysit occasionally

This isn’t the norm for everyone though-many people see in laws equally. It sounds like this is what you want to happen rather than what he wants.

Having said that-she does sound difficult!

We had a similar situation here that was only resolved by DH having quite a lot of individual therapy. In his case it was 100% guilt that he didn’t want the contact with his DM that I wanted with mine but felt obliged to match it because of the guilt trips. He also felt sad seeing the close easy relationship we have and that came out as anger. He sees things more clearly now and is able to express how he feels and to separate my relationship with my mum from his with his mum. He still feels guilty and sad after a lot of their exchanges but he’s not pulling me or my mum into it.

Therapy was vital though (he went for other reasons and was surprised he ended up focused on his mum). He could have heard this from me and really taken it on board.

This caused issues with my husband “why does your mum have to come up the night before and not the morning of??” - he was really expecting her to get up at 4:30/5am and drive 2 hours to get here for 7am when we both left. It was awful and my poor mum really sensed he wasn’t welcoming at all. In fact, she got here earlier one evening but didn’t feel she could knock so sat in her car around the corner until it was the time she said she’d be here...awful!!

This made me want to cry, your poor mum.

You keep saying his family are manipulative but I actually think he is very much too.

He's set you and your mum up to fail with stuff like the above. Even if she does you a favour, if it's not on his terms that cancels out the favour in his eyes.

I couldn't have forgiven the above because it's properly nasty and I couldn't be with someone who was spiteful.

I know that doesn't help right now but I really think you need to shift your thinking to take into account the fact your husband is being nasty and manipulative about this.

It isn't normal and he needs to be accountable for it rather than you and him both projecting the issue onto the parents - you and the kids are his family as much as his parents are and he doesn't treat them spitefully, just you. It's a relationship issue.

He doesn't sound like a nice person deep down.

Letseatgrandma yes, I admit I probably do want that more than him but at the beginning I was very much happy to have more involvement from the in-laws but my MILs behaviour has unfortunately made me push her away. I agree not every situation is the same but in a lot of cases, if a daughter is close to her mum, her mum is more often than not, the first point of call if help/advise/support is needed above and beyond the husband. My MIL has this with her own daughter and is very involved there. Bottom line is she is a very jealous and needy woman and it has caused a lot of issues. My husband cannot even say to his own mother that we have seen my mum, because deep down, he knows she’s a jealous narc and doesn’t want to upset her.

We tend to split seeing the prospective families now OP. DH works Saturdays, so I tend to take the DC to see my parents on a Saturday afternoon. DH tends to take the DC up to his parents on a Sunday afternoon while I relax. It's just easier that way.

I do think having children does change a dinamic. It did with us. It becomes all about 'fairness' and being 'equal'. Which is reality just turns into tit for tat and the grandparents complaining that the other grandparents see the DC more.

What helps in IME is getting private child care when you are working so it's impartial.

blackcat86 Yep, I’ve had she’s never bathed my daughter in her whole 3 years. It’s as though she thinks she’s entitled to do all these things just because she’s a grandparent. She is obsessed about having my children to stay the night/weekend on their own without us and has been going on about it since my daughter was 5 days old. Also obsessed, but tries to subtly enquire what my children have been up to with my mum. It’s bizarre and makes me put my foot down. It’s all about her unfortunately. And my husband cannot see anything but a sweet, lovely woman in front of him and will do anything to keep her happy, including distancing himself from my family and not loving my children having a relationship with them

How are things ok between you when he's controlling of how much time you spend away with your family? It's toxic and controlling to be told as an adult what you can or cannot do for gods sake!

EXGEMS because I don’t put up with it, I do still see my family, and things are better. It has caused issues in the past and I’ve seriously questioned things ( a lot of this has happened post marriage and children, when dynamics have changed). There is still a sense of everything having to be completely equal between the two sets of parents and he can still be standoffish with my mum/family, if he feels he’s going to cause upset to his mum. It’s a strange one!

Sorry, I meant EKGEMS above

Fatted yes, if I were to go back to work now / when I do, we will do that, so much easier!!

I’d stop being so accommodating to him and his family, I would no longer be going there on the weekends.

It was awful and my poor mum really sensed he wasn’t welcoming at all. In fact, she got here earlier one evening but didn’t feel she could knock so sat in her car around the corner until it was the time she said she’d be here...awful!!!

How long are you prepared to tolerate this shit?
He CHOOSES to behave the way he does.
His mum obviously is a raging narc and wants to assert herself as the ultimate matriarch, even in your relationship.

Get over to the Stately Homes threads OP.

Basically what you need to do is make his life more uncomfortable if you don't get your way than if MIL gets hers.

MIL tantrums, explodes, stamps her foot, creates such a to do that he backs down. She will "win" every time, and nothing will change because she is the one who causes DH maximum discomfort. Sadly he does not seem to have the backbone to stand up to her for his wife's sake, but he will for his own

So far, you've put up and shut up so not to rock the boat. Understandable, any decent rational person would do the same. However MIL is irrational, so change tactics. You need to now be the awkward one who nobody wants to upset.

When this situation arises again, tantrum, cry and flounce. Draw all eyes to you. Refuse sex and stop doing any housework for your husband. Bombard him with upset phone calls as MIL does. It won't come naturally, but do it. Repeat as necessary. You won't have to do it for long, became you live with him and MIL doesn't.

I haven't had to do this myself thankfully, but I know someone who was in your exact situation and was given this exact advice by someone older and wiser. It worked like a charm, almost overnight. The husband in question was on the phone telling MIL to back off, lickety split

monkeymonkey2010 believe me, at the time, we had huge arguments about it, and things did get better, but then another thing arises and so on. It’s always there in the background.

Your DH doesn’t behave like this to keep his DM “happy”

He does this to protect HIMSELF from her rage.

She is a classic Narc who holds the threat of simmering volatility to keep everyone in control and walking on eggshells so that she is never upset and triggered into an angry RAGE.

She rarely has to actually erupt because people like your DH and your FIL spend their lives shushing, and hushing and accommodating and tap dancing to her irrational ego centric needs.

Your DH learnt this as a child.

Deep down your DH is in FOG and has deep contempt for his DM but can’t express it to her (because he is terrified of her rage) so HIS repressed contempt is projected onto you and your DM. He might not be even conscious of any of this.

What’s telling is that he was less bothered about seeing his DM in the early days of your RS - he had sloped away. You encouraged the RS (because that’s normal and you didn’t know what you were dealing with).

The wedding and DGC is where she ramped up her narc stuff again and where her fragile but dominant ego knows no boundaries.

She needs to make everything about her and SHE is jealous and paranoid about your DM and this is shown in her ridiculous behaviours.

Your DH then has to do everything to placate her to prevent a Narcissistic Rage because this is emotionally traumatic for him. Anyone else just looks and laughs at her frankly ridiculous behaviour. But he is terrified (from childhood conditioning).

So as PPs have said to save HIS OWN discomfort he will do anything and everything to accommodate all of her bizarre behaviours - including throwing you under the bus.

She yanks his chain and he yanks yours. She will do this often v subtlety so he isn’t quite aware - just emotionally triggered to react.

Do all you can to understand Narcissistic Rage and then you will understand the dynamics. It’s all v cliched and predictable behaviours with all the main characters in play. Look at it as a pantomime with your MIL as a grotesque Widow Twanky.

Then step well back out of it.

These characters ruin marriages and families. She is seriously toxic and has polluted and stolen enough memories of your motherhood.

Don’t let this ridiculous overbearing woman take anymore.

Your DH won’t hear any of this from you because in his emotionally stunted brain you are the main threat to his DM erupting.

Once you have done your research on toxic Narc families you will understand that you will never change them - it just gets worse and your only options are distancing, detaching and v firm boundaries LC or NC.

She is emotionally dangerous to your DCs.

Your DH needs counselling to unravel all of this. It has nothing to do with the single event that is the issue at the moment (wedding plans, babysitting, visits etc) as because you have correctly identified,once you have wrestled a pig trying to sort one issue with these irrational types another one comes along. This is your future. So he needs counselling to understand the dynamics.

He is treating you, your DC and family unit badly whether he is aware of it or not.

This needs to stop.

If your DH won’t see it and won’t go to counselling then you should go yourself so that you learn to manage him to manage her.

He's definitely treating your Mum badly. Again, I would not tolerate this, my Mum is my heart and anyone treating her like this would be out. I know you said it started after your first child but you've had another since. I wouldn't stay with someone who treated his Mum like an angel and mine like a devil. Nope.

shoxfordian things got better after initially having my first child and in general they have got better over time. Some of the examples I refer to are old ones, but nonetheless, the resentment can still be there at times. I’ve had another baby since because things were better and I liked to believe it was a blip, babies change the dynamics of a relationship etc. We have a lovely little boy. My husband is a lot better with my mum, which I’m obviously very happy about, but there is still underlying pressures from his mother which can cause issues. She’s jealous and he doesn’t want to upset her. If I’d had a crystal ball then perhaps things would have been different, but I’ve got two children so I do feel I need to make it work and I’d like to make it work for us too, as there is a lot of love there.