How did you stop freezing and improve your boundaries?

[EasyTarget]

I have a really strong freeze/fawn response when someone starts being abusive or taking advantage of me.

I have done lots of therapy previously, online courses, assertiveness courses and hypnotherapy and EMDR, and read bags of books. I have a good understanding of the psychology on an intellectual level, but still can't stop the freeze/fawn in the moment.

An incident that happened this week has shown me that I am still freeze/ fawning, instead of shutting down the abusive conversation. I am gutted about this as I have been trying so hard to change it.

I have a new therapist booked to start with this in 2 weeks.

Do you have any experience of how you changed your response?

I'm just started to try and do this more, partly thanks to MN.

Always knew when I wasn't happy with a thing, but would be struck dumb in the moment.

What was the incident this week, if you feel able to share?

I find that online/messenger is the easiest place to enforce/reassert boundaries so far. I did tell IRL my 'ex' my opinions on something he'd done in the past, but softened it a little. Things carried on for about a week, then I decided to block him on everything He was really dodgy and had been succeeding in pushing at my boundaries sexually for months/years, but I gradually said no to the gross things because I truly couldn't bring myself to do them anymore.

He had hovered around on messenger for a long time until a vulnerable moment, or I would never have got involved with him. So then I decided that anyone who gave me the creeps would be gone from my FB, and I deleted a few. I met a new friend and added him on FB, and he started being 'flirty' on there. I told him to stop as it made me feel uncomfortable, but eventually decided I had to follow my new rule of blocking. It was a bit more difficult as I'll probably see him as part of a group IRL, but I just said 'I block men who make me feel uncomfortable, I have to because of my bipolar, but I look forward to seeing him at the group in future.

True MN-ers would say that I don't have to give an extra justification to them (bipolar) that they make me feel uncomfortable is enough, so next time I won't add that. It also means that men know I am vulnerable, if I tell them.

So, yes, its easier to do online, even to respond to IRL events there, though of course it's not ideal.

Another thing is to cultivate a sense of 'annoyance', anger. Mumsnet has helped me with this. This helps you respondin the moment. It helped me with a taxi driver who was being sleazy. I told him to stop as it made me feel uncomfortable.

You could also have an attitude that you're looking forward to an opportunity to be assertive- itching to practice the new MN ethos etc.

If you have this issue in relationships too, I recommend the Freedom Programme. Everyone there has been lovely. xxx

Struck dumb in the moment is exactly what happens. It's like I lose control of my facilities and just do what I'm told.

I've been trying to change it for a few years now, I struggle to stop myself going into freeze/ fawn mode when it happens.

What happened this week is a man I hardly know rang up to make an appointment, and ended up chatting and asking me loads of personal questions and turning the conversation from friendly to sexual. I think he had accessed an old diary of mine as he was coincidentally talking about all the things I writte in it. Very personal specific things.

I should have told him to get lost at the first mention of the strange questions, but I didn't. And I hate that I didn't stop it and answered his questions. I'm so angry at myself.

Even after all the work I've done I still do the right thing in the moment. I feel so stupid.

I dont know about you but I struggle in situations that are new to me. I find that playing dumb (is there a pc alternative for that phrase?) can be a good tool. What do you mean by that?

You csn also block. Just because someone asks doesnt mean you are obliged to answer them. Why do you ask. I dont see how thats relevant. I dont wish to discuss that with you.

And finally: what did you just say? Is surprisingly effective. Also just look back at them and say nothing.

Dont be afraid to pause and collect your thoughts. You are an equal in any conversation and you are equally entitled to time and space to process what is going on.

I think practice makes perfect. So maybe role play and work out concrete sentences that you learn and have ready. Be prepared! 🍀If you actively reflect on how the conversation went and what you could have said then next time youll know better.

I shall write some of those out and practice them out loud.

I must admit, both before and after the event I know exactly what I would/should have said and done. It's how to stop that response kicking in, in the moment. It's like a disassociation and programmed response kicks in.

I am going to practice out loud. Alot. I really want this to stop happening.

I give the appearance of being more assertive than I am because I have a set of default responses. I have a little bank of things I say when I am not sure what the hell is going on or when I am feeling uncomfortable. I just dredge one of these up. They have the advantage of being non-confrontational so if I have misread the situation or the person chooses to back down then we can carry on as normal.

What do you mean?
Why do you say that?
That's an unusual thing to say.
Go on.
I need to think about it.
I'll get back to you.
I can't decide that right now.
If you must have an answer now then it must be a no from me.
I didn't expect you to say that. What do you mean?
I don't understand. Can you explain please?

Recently: really must go now

I am completely unafraid of "accidentally" hanging up on someone or of just walking off after saying "Really got to go now. See you later."

I am OK with being the one to end a conversation, even when the other person wants to continue.

You need to programme a new response. Literally spend many hours over the next couple of weeks remembering past times (or imagining new scenarios) where you use your new catch phrases. Eventually they will just fall off your tongue before your fear reflex even engages.

Therapy. Lots of it. I have turned from a mute in social situations to a rather mouthy, opinionated woman. And yet I really haven't changed essentially. It's just that my straitjacket has been removed. I have, once again, become the child before she was silenced by her parents.

I definitely second questioning as a response, especially when I’m concerned it might be a PA dig at me. I try and say what I feel in a neutral way like “I’m not sure what that means, can you explain?”

I have the same difficulty, especially in intimate relationship, I’m so scared of people.

There's a book called Waking the Tiger which is about releasing past trauma and overcoming your subconscious automatic responses. This might be useful for you?

Fight / flight / freeze / fawn are all automatic responses, like pulling your hand away from a hot stove. You don't consciously think "oh, this is hot. I'm going to move my hand now." Your automatic protective instincts take over and snatch your hand away without conscious thought. According to the book you can't cure your freeze / fawn response by consciously thinking about it, because the reaction is taking place in your subconscious. You need to rewrite your automatic programming.

The book was recommended to me by my therapist and it was very helpful at putting me back in the drivers seat of my body, instead of reacting in the same old ways.

I only want to thank the OP for starting this thread. I've just ordered Walker's book, "Complex PTSD - From Surviving to Thriving". I've been in and out of therapy for over 30 years, but this is the first time I've heard of freeze/fawn.

I just hope it's not too late for me to reprogram my unhealthy automatic responses.

Just wanted to say thank you for all the great advice on this thread. I've written it all out including all the sentences, and while in lockdown I am going to role play it and learn the responses rote.

It's the only thing I haven't tried. I had hoped the EMDR and hypnotherapy would have helped change my subconscious, that's what it was meant to do, but maybe not.

I've bought Waking the Tiger and have started making my way through it. And I'm going to re-read my copy of Pete Walker (it's an excellent book dramalessllama.)

I'm going to have to ditch the being friends with everyone attitude and be more measured.

Might sign on the The Freedom Programme too, why not.